The Lone Haranguer
Member
If both the phone and the 911 system have the capability, they can use GPS.
This is a thought provoking question, because I use a "pay as you go" cell phone and no land line, and had not thought of this.
No landline= safety problem?
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This is a thought provoking question, because I use a "pay as you go" cell phone and no land line, and had not thought of this.
Onward Allusion
Member
It is a safety problem if you have younger kids - old enough to call 911 but don't have a cell phone of their own or not 100% sure of their address. As for adults, the newer phones can triangulate your location via cell towers or GPS but there will likely be a delay as the dispatcher goes onto a different system.
It is still good to have a land line even if you only use it for emergencies and have it connected to your alarm system as the primary (cell module as backup). Also, building materials will diminish cell signal (i.e. basement, closet). I'd rather have both.
It is still good to have a land line even if you only use it for emergencies and have it connected to your alarm system as the primary (cell module as backup). Also, building materials will diminish cell signal (i.e. basement, closet). I'd rather have both.
cell location v. landline location and 911
As others have said already so long as your cell phone works in all rooms in your house then you are just as safe with your cell phone as you would be with a land line.
Your cell phone can be tracked by modern e911 systems as accurately as a land line and in many cases cell location can be more accurate on modern phones with GPS.
Cell phones and land lines use different methods to locate you for 911.
Land lines have their location provided to the 911 dispatch center by the land line provider. This location must be updated if you move (this is especially true of newer VOIP systems) since your address is essentially stored in a database.
Cellphones on the other hand transmit the location each time you call 911, depending on the type of handset and the capabilities of the 911 system this can be range from cell tower triangulation at the least accurate all the way up to exact location using WiFi and GPS location on many modern smartphones. Since cellphones transmit your location at the time of the call they have the potential to be more accurate than the land line database.
It is still a good idea to give dispatchers you location, since the capabilities can vary depending on your location, the type of phone you are using, and your service provider.
I have worked in cellular while getting my criminal justice degree so this question was in my area of expertise.
I have not had a land line since 2000 and see no need for one until my kids get older (currently 1year old and 2 1/2 years old).
As others have said already so long as your cell phone works in all rooms in your house then you are just as safe with your cell phone as you would be with a land line.
Your cell phone can be tracked by modern e911 systems as accurately as a land line and in many cases cell location can be more accurate on modern phones with GPS.
Cell phones and land lines use different methods to locate you for 911.
Land lines have their location provided to the 911 dispatch center by the land line provider. This location must be updated if you move (this is especially true of newer VOIP systems) since your address is essentially stored in a database.
Cellphones on the other hand transmit the location each time you call 911, depending on the type of handset and the capabilities of the 911 system this can be range from cell tower triangulation at the least accurate all the way up to exact location using WiFi and GPS location on many modern smartphones. Since cellphones transmit your location at the time of the call they have the potential to be more accurate than the land line database.
It is still a good idea to give dispatchers you location, since the capabilities can vary depending on your location, the type of phone you are using, and your service provider.
I have worked in cellular while getting my criminal justice degree so this question was in my area of expertise.
I have not had a land line since 2000 and see no need for one until my kids get older (currently 1year old and 2 1/2 years old).
danez71
Member
If you get midnight snacks like me... you might not carry your cell to the fridge everytime.
If you have friends or family staying over night... they may not have a cell phone.
Cell phone have a habit of being set down... and not carried 100% of the time.
Cell phone systems have a tendancy to be overwhelmed at times of crisis.
Cell phone do have the added text advantage.
Me - Landline every room including garage.
If you have friends or family staying over night... they may not have a cell phone.
Cell phone have a habit of being set down... and not carried 100% of the time.
Cell phone systems have a tendancy to be overwhelmed at times of crisis.
Cell phone do have the added text advantage.
Me - Landline every room including garage.
Guillermo
member
are not cell phones easy to jam the signal?
mine seems to drop calls constantly so it does not seem a super stable signal
mine seems to drop calls constantly so it does not seem a super stable signal
FLAvalanche
Member
Does your house have a physical landline?
The reason I ask is you said you bought a house and decided against having a landline. Does that mean there is no phone line or just that you haven't had it activated?
If your house has a landline and you've decided against activating it with a local carrier, I believe, by law, they still have to provide 911 service to the phone.
You can't pick it up and make local calls but you can still dial 911 even with it not activated.
The reason I ask is you said you bought a house and decided against having a landline. Does that mean there is no phone line or just that you haven't had it activated?
If your house has a landline and you've decided against activating it with a local carrier, I believe, by law, they still have to provide 911 service to the phone.
You can't pick it up and make local calls but you can still dial 911 even with it not activated.
Onward Allusion
Member
Yup. Cell phones are easy to jam...
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easyg
Member
I know 'cause I sometimes use one during my meetings, especially when I have CrackBerry-Heads in the room.
U.S. law prohibits using, buying, selling, carrying or owning a cell phone jammer.
You could face up to $11,000 in fines and up to one year in prison for just owning one.
Just so you know.
Landline here. Living in CA. a wildfire or earthquake can (and has) rendered some cell/power outages. I'm with danez71 on this one. (A couple of years ago, we were without electricity for 21 days...my wife had to charge her cell at work or in the car. I'm the only person in the world without a cell phone).
Note: For some reason, our small generator would not fully charge her phone. Don't know why.
Kyle
Note: For some reason, our small generator would not fully charge her phone. Don't know why.
Kyle
The 911 operator could triagle your location from the phone pinging off 3 towers.
OR if your 911 dispatch is modern they can use the GPS function on the cell phone and zero in on you that way.
I've heard calls go out on cell phone 911 hang ups where the dispatcher gives an officer the GPS location then the physical address that location represents. They have programs that figure it out for the city they work in.
The one problem with that is locating the person in a condo complex or other such structure where people are living on top of each other.
OR if your 911 dispatch is modern they can use the GPS function on the cell phone and zero in on you that way.
I've heard calls go out on cell phone 911 hang ups where the dispatcher gives an officer the GPS location then the physical address that location represents. They have programs that figure it out for the city they work in.
The one problem with that is locating the person in a condo complex or other such structure where people are living on top of each other.
cell phone jamming
Cell phones are relatively easy to jam, but it is easy to cut you home phone line also. I would not say either is easier to disable.
Personally my cell goes on the nightstand charging every night, plus I keep a fully charged spare battery.
Overall there are advantages and disadvantages to land lines and cell phones, pick whichever one you are most comfortable with.
One other thing to keep in mind is that If you use one of the modern options that use VOIP for your land line, you likely do not have a live connection to the traditional (paired copper) phone lines.
When ATT Uverse or Comcast sets up your home phone to run over your data connection (cable or fiberoptic) one of the steps is to disconnect the phone line connection to your house. This is why you are able to run the in home wiring to the modem, allowing you to use the existing wall jacks for phones through out the house.
These setups also do not pull power directly from the phone like traditional land lines, this is why the modem usually has a battery backup, so your phone still works if the power is out for a short time.
If you want to test this unplug your modem from the data connection and plug an old home phone into the wall socket, NO dial tone and NO 911 service.
Cell phones are relatively easy to jam, but it is easy to cut you home phone line also. I would not say either is easier to disable.
Personally my cell goes on the nightstand charging every night, plus I keep a fully charged spare battery.
Overall there are advantages and disadvantages to land lines and cell phones, pick whichever one you are most comfortable with.
One other thing to keep in mind is that If you use one of the modern options that use VOIP for your land line, you likely do not have a live connection to the traditional (paired copper) phone lines.
When ATT Uverse or Comcast sets up your home phone to run over your data connection (cable or fiberoptic) one of the steps is to disconnect the phone line connection to your house. This is why you are able to run the in home wiring to the modem, allowing you to use the existing wall jacks for phones through out the house.
These setups also do not pull power directly from the phone like traditional land lines, this is why the modem usually has a battery backup, so your phone still works if the power is out for a short time.
If you want to test this unplug your modem from the data connection and plug an old home phone into the wall socket, NO dial tone and NO 911 service.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
"Two is one and one is none," they say. Basic (local) service charge for a landline isn't horribly expensive around here, no need not to have both if it fits in the budget IMHO. Might be important for the babysitter, visitors, etc. who might not be able to recall your physical address in the stress of an emergency.
lpl
lpl
We went wireless, including for our alarm system. No phone lines for BG's to cut for that either
But cell phones are easily jammed. While such devices are not routinely sold in the USA they are very common in many parts of the world where they jam phones in everything from restaurants to movie theatres, hospitals to banks, schools, and many things in between.
Various LEO use cell phone jammers to prevent individuals from making calls in some situations.
They have also started using them in jails and prisons to prevent inmates from using smuggled cell phones.
This is most likely to lead to their more widespread use by criminals.
Building such a device is quite easy. Portable versions are also quite easy to make being a very simple circuit, and manufactured versions are sold as readily as an ipod in many parts of the world.
Imagine a criminal able to instantly disable the cell phones of motorists or pedestrians within a short range disabling both the phone of the victim and nearby witnesses.
Predator with one approaches you or a loved one? No cell phone signal.
Or a home invasion ring that turns one on when they go to work. Unlike a cut line that is noticed, a jammer can be used instantly so there is no forewarning.
Nobody should presume a cell phone will work when it uses a signal that is easily disrupted or overpowered, because by law the signal has to be weak to meet FCC regulations insuring it is easily disrupted by a device ignoring the law.
Cell phone jammers have existed for a long time, and new versions come out as often as new cell phone protocols come out, able to block the new ones.
However they have traditionally not been on the radar of criminals.
With their rapidly increasing use in jails and prisons you can be sure criminals are taking notice of their existence. Such a blatant in their face experience with the technology (unable to use smuggled phones, and aware of why) will not escape notice.
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Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
As noted above, this is not very accurate. It might get the location down to a city block and then what would the first responder need to do to find you? Remember, you called 911 because of a crisis where life is on the line (so to speak) and time is critical. So the first responder is reduced to knocking on doors and every door unaswered is possibly where you are.
That "zero" may be your exact location or a location within a large area, such as a 1500 foot radius. My Blackberry GPS has widely varying results based on how well connected it is with the system. When I am out in the country where cell coverage is less, the location indicated can be HUGE (within a radius of 2500 feet). At the local Walmart, it can show which part of the parking lot I am in (within 9 feet). At home, it displays me two doors down and across the street. Sometimes it shows me at about the right spot on the block, but at my neighbor's house that is right behind me and hence is the next street over.
If I am unable to verbally give my location on a cell phone, I am not very confident that the 911 operator will be able to dispatch help to my actual location in a timely manner. So unless I am in a fire or some other event that is broadcasting my physical location visually to responders, I may be out of luck.
leadcounsel
member
Yeah - people might actually have to think for themselves like they did way back 15 years ago before mobile phones were common...
MisterMike
Member
Good information here. I'll toss in my experience: We cut the landline a year ago, but my wife insisted on keeping a home phone. I installed an Ooma (www.ooma.com), at a cost of a little under $200. My experience has been excellent. With the exception of a couple of times when our internet connection has been out (Comcast sucks at our location), the Ooma has provided practically zero-cost phone service of great quality.
The Ooma has some distinct advantages over the Magic Jack, including the ability to forward calls, set up blacklists (to block annoyance calls and phone solicitations), and remotely access voicemail, if you need such features. I connected my Ooma base station and cable modem through a uninterruptible power supply, so that, in the event of a power outage, we still maintain the phone connection. At the time I got the Ooma, you could opt for a zero-cost option or a premium package that offered a bunch of features, including a second phone line. I think that they now pass on the government connectivity fees, which amount to a little over $3/month.
I have no affiliation to Ooma, but after researching the topic I came to the conclusion that it's the best VOIP option out there. I haven't regretted it for a moment.
The Ooma has some distinct advantages over the Magic Jack, including the ability to forward calls, set up blacklists (to block annoyance calls and phone solicitations), and remotely access voicemail, if you need such features. I connected my Ooma base station and cable modem through a uninterruptible power supply, so that, in the event of a power outage, we still maintain the phone connection. At the time I got the Ooma, you could opt for a zero-cost option or a premium package that offered a bunch of features, including a second phone line. I think that they now pass on the government connectivity fees, which amount to a little over $3/month.
I have no affiliation to Ooma, but after researching the topic I came to the conclusion that it's the best VOIP option out there. I haven't regretted it for a moment.
Myles
Member
Since the enactment of the Homeland Security Act (set forth in the e911 mandate), all cell phones must have integral GPS or the service carrier may not legally activate the phone.
Theoretically, this setting allows you to "turn off" GPS tracking to anyone except 911/Emergency Services/Homeland Security/etc.
As far as security without a landline? I keep both, but the landline is not dependent on how fast your local EMS can track your GPS. They immediately know the address.
4thPointOfContact
Member
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easyg said:U.S. law prohibits using, buying, selling, carrying or owning a cell phone jammer."I know 'cause I sometimes use one during my meetings, especially when I have CrackBerry-Heads in the room.
You could face up to $11,000 in fines and up to one year in prison for just owning one.
Just so you know.
Now, now, easyg. You know how common those cellphone jammers are. Why, every middle management boss, theater, meth-head and junkie in the hood looking to burgle someone's house carries one around constantly. Why do you think their pants are sagging so much? It's the weight, mang!
Look at all the blotter reports of burglaries where the accused was found to be in possession of a screwdriver or a rock, and had a cell phone jammer in his pocket.
4thPointOfContact
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In regards to the "OFF" and "911 Only" settings in the security tab.
"911 Only" means that the location is boadcast only when 911 is dialed.
"OFF" means that the security feature is turned off and that the location is boadcast during each phone call. It doesn't mean that the location broadcast itself is disabled.
"911 Only" means that the location is boadcast only when 911 is dialed.
"OFF" means that the security feature is turned off and that the location is boadcast during each phone call. It doesn't mean that the location broadcast itself is disabled.
ForumSurfer
Member
I've worked with 911 systems.
It all depends on several variables.
- Do you have a newer cell phone with GPS capabilities built in for 911 location services?
- Does your county/city 911 service utilize the latest standards allowing them to track phones by GPS?
- Are you in an area where your GPS works (for 911, not you)?
- If you're not being located by GPS, you are being triangulated by cell towers...which can be accurate or inaccurate. If you have 7-10 towers triangulating you, accuracy may be less than 80 or so meters. Subtract towers and accuracy decreases exponentially.
Now, having said that...I don't own a land line and likely never will again. I trust most 911 systems. Especially with new standards due to be released nationwide very shortly.
mustang_steve
Member
The one thing I carry mroe often than a handgun is my cellphone. It's a cheapy but it has GPS functionality, internet access (although very basic) and gets very good reception along with durability ...it's no smartphone, but it can do everything I need.
It's a Nokia 2720 Fold...you can get them outrigh for about $50 new.
It's a Nokia 2720 Fold...you can get them outrigh for about $50 new.
Dnaltrop
Member
I ceased using landlines around 2000,
Qwest had just spent the last year shutting my DSL off for maintenance between 11-30 and 1 am, till about 4 am every single night, and they refused to prorate my service for the interruption, or cease disconnecting me during my then-peak online time.
I don't bother with a Cable-line phone, because I've had constant, but minor interruptions in my Comcast service.
My wife, myself, and our eldest each have a phone, my middle gets one when she starts riding the schoolbus.
Family Tracker service lets me follow the phones on any web-browser if something makes that needed.
To be completely honest, 3 phones... we still only use about 2 hours of talk time a month. There's something to be said for SMS. Wife and I like to annoy people by using big words and avoiding any shorthand whatsoever.
Now wife and I both have decent Android 4g phones... we're using the Videophone option (Qik video) more than calling or SMS either.
The best part is seeing peoples reactions... My wife and I hide NOTHING from each other (well, technically she knew about my gun money stash, but not the size of it, now she's buying gun etc too ^^ ) and a lot of people seem to get spooked at the thought of their significant other being able to video the room in a live conversation.
Assuming the Cable line is intact, Internet Video feeds from the cameras on the house once I drill the holes in the walls and run the cabling.
It all boils down to I won't give money to old landline technology again.
Qwest had just spent the last year shutting my DSL off for maintenance between 11-30 and 1 am, till about 4 am every single night, and they refused to prorate my service for the interruption, or cease disconnecting me during my then-peak online time.
I don't bother with a Cable-line phone, because I've had constant, but minor interruptions in my Comcast service.
My wife, myself, and our eldest each have a phone, my middle gets one when she starts riding the schoolbus.
Family Tracker service lets me follow the phones on any web-browser if something makes that needed.
To be completely honest, 3 phones... we still only use about 2 hours of talk time a month. There's something to be said for SMS. Wife and I like to annoy people by using big words and avoiding any shorthand whatsoever.
Now wife and I both have decent Android 4g phones... we're using the Videophone option (Qik video) more than calling or SMS either.
The best part is seeing peoples reactions... My wife and I hide NOTHING from each other (well, technically she knew about my gun money stash, but not the size of it, now she's buying gun etc too ^^ ) and a lot of people seem to get spooked at the thought of their significant other being able to video the room in a live conversation.
Assuming the Cable line is intact, Internet Video feeds from the cameras on the house once I drill the holes in the walls and run the cabling.
It all boils down to I won't give money to old landline technology again.
This article is on the same subject: it describes what AT&T has been telling people about the need to keep landlines for ther own safety. Some of the above posts make similar points.
http://www.betanews.com/article/ATT-Without-a-landline-phone-you-could-die/1247069154
However, that's really part of an advertising strategy, and perhaps a desperate one. AT&T has another point of view on this: with the increasing rate at which customers are abandoning landlines, the remaining customer base is becoming insufficient to justify the high costs of maintaining the landline infrastructure. They are pressing regulatory bodies to permit them to shut down landline service altogether.
http://arstechnica.com/telecom/news/2009/12/att-landline-phone-service-must-die-only-question-is-when.ars
My next door neighbor had his telephone service provided by his cable TV provider. When storms took out power in the area a few summers ago, he was out of luck--for several days. By the way, our cordless phones didn't work either, but we had retained one of the old phones that did work.
Of course, telephone lines can be knocked down, too.
A couple of year ago on PDTV, Mas Ayoob suggested that people consider having two cell phones from different service providers in case one goes down. Sound extreme? Well, until recently, I had a car with On*Star, and the satellite phone on it worked when cell phones did not.
A satellite based phone working through an IP provider just might be in all of our futures, for the reasons set forth in the second link above.
The biggest risk would seem to involve power outages. When one thinks about it, a back-up generator starts sounding like a good idea, As a matter of fact, I have one, but the primary reasons I put it in had to do with light, refrigeration, and temperature control.
It has worked very effectively--we haven't had a power outage in the fifteen months we've had it.
Does not having landline pose a safety problem? With those who have said yes, I have to agree, but I predict that we will all have to face that issue in the not too distant future.
Frankly, I think not having a cell phone poses a much, much bigger risk these days.
One other thing: there's the possibility of radio--one does not need to learn Morse Code these days to get a license.
http://www.betanews.com/article/ATT-Without-a-landline-phone-you-could-die/1247069154
However, that's really part of an advertising strategy, and perhaps a desperate one. AT&T has another point of view on this: with the increasing rate at which customers are abandoning landlines, the remaining customer base is becoming insufficient to justify the high costs of maintaining the landline infrastructure. They are pressing regulatory bodies to permit them to shut down landline service altogether.
http://arstechnica.com/telecom/news/2009/12/att-landline-phone-service-must-die-only-question-is-when.ars
My next door neighbor had his telephone service provided by his cable TV provider. When storms took out power in the area a few summers ago, he was out of luck--for several days. By the way, our cordless phones didn't work either, but we had retained one of the old phones that did work.
Of course, telephone lines can be knocked down, too.
A couple of year ago on PDTV, Mas Ayoob suggested that people consider having two cell phones from different service providers in case one goes down. Sound extreme? Well, until recently, I had a car with On*Star, and the satellite phone on it worked when cell phones did not.
A satellite based phone working through an IP provider just might be in all of our futures, for the reasons set forth in the second link above.
The biggest risk would seem to involve power outages. When one thinks about it, a back-up generator starts sounding like a good idea, As a matter of fact, I have one, but the primary reasons I put it in had to do with light, refrigeration, and temperature control.
It has worked very effectively--we haven't had a power outage in the fifteen months we've had it.
Does not having landline pose a safety problem? With those who have said yes, I have to agree, but I predict that we will all have to face that issue in the not too distant future.
Frankly, I think not having a cell phone poses a much, much bigger risk these days.
One other thing: there's the possibility of radio--one does not need to learn Morse Code these days to get a license.
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