Dealing with the police

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Jeff22

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A tip to the unaware or unfamiliar in dealing with the police: first of all, know who the police are! Know the difference between the city police, the county sheriff's department and the state troopers. They have slightly different but overlapping jurisdictions. Their cars are probably painted differently and they probably have different colored uniforms. Know who your primary service provider is! If you live near the border of your jurisdiction, know what the uniforms and the squad cars of the neighboring town look like. That isn't too hard -- just pay attention when driving around on your normal business, and then remember what you see. Neighboring jurisdictions back each other up all the time, and if one agency gets tied up on a major incident, the department next door may end up being primary responders to calls in that town. It happens all the time, and it is NOT evidence of a particular emergency nor of a government conspiracy . . .

If you live in Hickory Hills and the Police Communications Center gets a 911 disconnect from your house, you may get the Hickory Hills PD or the Sheriff's Department or the State Police or cops from the next town or village over, depending upon the situation. It's not at all unusual.

Any time you interact with the police, be truthful, don't have an attitude nor appear to be concealing information and your day will go a lot smoother. Almost always when we the police encounter somebody with a belligerent attitude, it's because they're trying to hide something. You don't have to offer information, but answer the legitimate questions that you are asked. If you appear to be trying to hide something, cops treat that the same way that sharks treat the smell of blood in the water . . .

Just because you explained something to the call taker on the phone DOES NOT mean that information was ever passed on to the officer. If it’s really busy, they’ll just send the officer with a minimum of information and expect them to sort it out when they get there.

If you live on the boundary of multiple jurisdictions, be aware of where the incident happened and which police department you called. If you have called to report an incident, and then just flag down a passing police car, the cops inside (a.) may not have received the call yet and so have no idea what you’re talking about, or (b.) may be from another jurisdiction, possibly dispatched by a different comm center on a different radio frequency, and they may not know what you’re talking about, either.

Just because you talked to a cop once about a particular situation does NOT mean that all cops everywhere will be familiar with the situation. We are not telepathically connected!

If you reported a problem at midnight, don’t call back at eleven the next morning and expect to talk to the same officers. Individual police officers are not on 24/7. We do go home to sleep and conduct our personal lives from time to time.

Pay attention to what agency the officer works for, and ask for their name and badge number or radio number or ID number. We get issued business cards to give to people we interact with. Get a business card from officer friendly and ask for the case number of the incident (if there is one), the address of occurrence and the case title, and write down the date. That way, if at some later time you need to make an inquiry, you'll have the information that you need.

If they’re in plainclothes, feel free to ask to look at the officer’s credentials. Just keep in mind that you don't know what an authentic police ID card for that agency looks like. (I don't know what official ID cards for the surrounding agencies look like, either.)

If somebody comes to your door in plainclothes, and they're a real cop, they're used to having people ask to see an ID, and may be used to having you phone dispatch to verify their identity, depending upon where you are. BE SURE YOU CALL THE RIGHT POLICE DEPARTMENT!
 
Any time you interact with the police, be truthful, don't have an attitude nor appear to be concealing information and your day will go a lot smoother. Almost always when we the police encounter somebody with a belligerent attitude, it's because they're trying to hide something. You don't have to offer information, but answer the legitimate questions that you are asked. If you appear to be trying to hide something, cops treat that the same way that sharks treat the smell of blood in the water . . .
I'll give them the information I'm required to by law, that's it. Usually that's just my name and address. Nothing good can come from answering questions without an attorney present.
 
And why would you need an attorney if you were reporting a crime or criminal activity?

This post is entitled "Dealing with the Police" and NOT "After being involved in a shooting".

The level of paranoia some people have is disturbing . . .
 
Why would I be dealing with the police otherwise? And I've pretty much given up on trying to report a crime; the police here won't take a report. (Vandalism, identity theft, etc. They don't care.)

If I ever need to report a rape, armed robbery, murder, or a kidnapping, I'll do that, and I'll have an attorney present.

P.S. It's a lot of fun trying to deal with an insurance company or credit reporting agency w/o a police report because when you did report the crime the police didn't assign a case number.
 
A thing that disturbs me is that cops are allowed to lie to YOU, but if YOU lie to THEM it's obstruction of justice...hmmm
 
I have to agree about some folks here having a high level of paranoia. Not naming any names.

I read in in other threads about folks here having loaded firearms in every room of their home, including the privy. Wearing a pistol around the house 24/7.

I also read that when some folks here answer the doorbell, they have their pistol out of the holster. Some even pointing it at the deliveryman through the door.

Thanks to the OP for the comments about understanding LEO's. He is just trying to help, not hurt.
 
i absolutely agree with some people on this board about level of paranoia. Didnt you know? "The man" and everyone in a police uniform is out to get you, your gun, and lock you up in prison for no reason. Dont ever trust them blah blah

Sorry, you're not some tough guy in a maximum security prison and talking to the "authoirty" will get you shanked in the play grounds, try again
 
I don't see much hope for this thread. You have two very different, distinct lines of thought going on: the OP's advice, while well-intended, is the advice of a cop. A cop's version of 'how you should deal with cops" is obviously going to consist of different advice than say a defense attorney would give. While cops tend to be fond of the "if you have nothing to hide, be as forthcoming as possible and give us any and all info you have" in the real world, people have dug themselves into deep holes following that advice without legal counsel. The reason i don't hold out hope for this thread being useful is that the two sides rarely come to an understanding. The cops don't seem to understand why people won't be open and honest, and a good deal of citizens have seen cases where being open and honest resulted in arrests and whatnot. OF COURSE a cop wants people to be open....it makes their job quite a bit easier when one talks themselves into being arrested. While i believe some people take the "no talking to cops" advice a bit too literally, i also see that there is a reason people are hesitant to "fully cooperate" in some cases.
 
Quick comment before Fred yanks the thread...

The best and easiest way to manage interactions with LEOs of any jurisdiction is to avoid doing things that draw their attention to you. You avoid attracting a LEO, you avoid interaction issues. Done.
 
Any time you interact with the police, be truthful, don't have an attitude nor appear to be concealing information and your day will go a lot smoother. Almost always when we the police encounter somebody with a belligerent attitude, it's because they're trying to hide something.

Or they feel they're being treated unfairly, wrongly or rightly.

What is your advice if one reports a crime, against himself or other, and the police are not adequately responding or following up?
 
What is your advice if one reports a crime, against himself or other, and the police are not adequately responding or following up?

Then follow up on it. Everyone answers to someone. Have the shift sergeant or watch commander summoned to the scene if appropriate, or make contact with him/her later. Dispatch issues can be followed up on as well; ask to speak to the communications supervisor. Be diplomatic, which does not mean condescending or belligerent. Work to find out what the "appropriate response or action" needed really is, and then to achieve it.
Police all too often regard their world as an "us-against-them" situation (though this attitude has broken down substantially in the last decade or so.) Public paranoia about police interaction, regardless of its origin or legitimacy, only serves to help perpetuate that attitude.
 
Posted by beatledog7: The best and easiest way to manage interactions with LEOs of any jurisdiction is to avoid doing things that draw their attention to you. You avoid attracting a LEO, you avoid interaction issues. Done.
why would I even consider avoiding "attracting a LEO" rather than calling the police if I witness a crime or suspicious activity?
 
LEO's have a tough job. When the phone rings, it usually isn't a good thing. I think most of what they do is to investigate a crime after it has happened and to gather information...at least, initially. If I witness a crime, I will answer questions as honestly and completely as I can. If I haven't done anything wrong, I have nothing to worry about. Policemen aren't my enemy. I may be naive but I'd rather be that than paranoid. That being said, If I am directly involved in a self defense scenario, I'll wait for my lawyer before responding.
 
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In response to the OP, I think a lot of people here expressed concern not because they hate police, but because usually a "how to deal with Police" thread on a gun forum centers around interactions with LEO's after a SD encounter, and in which case the usual advice is somewhat different than what you gave (i.e., don't say much of anything until you have an attorney).

That being said, I thought your advice was very sound, and it is appreciated. Knowing the different local jurisdictions and their distinguishing marks can be very helpful. Perhaps many people haven't had luck in police following up on reported crimes because they didn't report to the correct jurisdiction... I know where I live, in Charlotte, NC, the city police and county sheriff merged into a single department - something not often seen, at least here in NC (I believe there's only one other NC county that has done this).

And finally, thanks for reminding people they can always ask for badge numbers. Several years ago there were people putting sirens on their cars and pulling over women and raping them around here. Asking for a badge number may not have saved the day in all, or maybe any, of those cases, but you never know. At least by asking you may get put on your guard and have a better chance.
 
Yeah I should've made it clear that this was advice relevant to dealing with the police when you are the victim, or involved in a car accident or when you are the witness to a crime in progress. "Routine" interactions with the cops that most people have from time to time.

I've posted in other discussions on this forum about what to do after you've been involved in a self defense shooting, which is "make a simple statement about what happened and then shut up". (That topic gets just discussed to death here and on other forums on the net)

Now that being said, some people define themselves through their negativity and their bitterness and their paranoia.

And other people HAVE had bad experiences with law enforcement. I've been a cop for almost 31 years, worked full time for one dept and part time for three others, and I can honestly say I've never worked with anybody who was corrupt or brutal. Only one guy was racist, and he was covert about it. (He was just a bitter person. He hated EVERYBODY but he hated blacks & hispanics more . . . ) I have worked with a few cops who were lazy or sloppy or who couldn't function well under pressure or who cut corners when they shouldn't have. I've worked with a bunch who were negative and cynical (when it wasn't called for) and just miserable to be around. I've worked with a few who were just coasting -- what Pat Rogers often refers to as "being on blue welfare" (hah!)

I don't live where they live and I haven't had the experiences they've had. And I've had a few negative experiences with law enforcement in my life as well.

And I think many officers develop that "us vs. them" attitude early in their career and actually revel in it because it gives them some kind of identity. Or maybe because they think they're supposed to think that way.

I have observed many officers who were aggressive when it wasn't really called for. I suspect in some cases that the culture of the agency is warped, and that in some instances it's just that copper who's warped . . .

We were talking about operational styles at work a few weeks ago. A couple of the officers had written along with other departments out of state. The guy who rode with Las Vegas metro was very impressed with the officers he met. (He's been considering applying out there ever since) A couple of the other guys who rode along elsewhere were suprised at some of the things that went on. Nothing way out of line, but the cops were abrupt with people when it wasn't called for. To the extent that the guys felt very uncomfortable about it.

It's like anything else. Some of the cops are outstanding, most do adequate work, some are worthless, and some ought to be in jail themselves . . .
 
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If I witness a crime, I will answer questions as honestly and completely as I can. If I haven't done anything wrong, I have nothing to worry about.

Well that's part of the problem, you can never be sure that you haven't done anything wrong.

Lets say you're crossing the border from GA to AL an get into a minor traffic accident. You think everything's ok and are just talking with the officer when he asks "you wouldn't happen to have a lottery ticket, would you?" and you say that you do, in fact you just bought one while you were in Georgia.

Congratulations, you just admitted to a misdemeanor which includes a provision allowing the state to seize your vehicle.

As long as there are stupid and pointless laws like this on the books, it is never safe to just "chat" with a police officer while he is performing his duties. It is so easy to run afoul of a law that you didn't even know existed that the benefits of a road-side conversation can not possibly outweigh the risks.

Section 13A-12-70
Transportation by certain persons; seizure of vehicles used.

Any transportation or conveyance within this state of any slip, ticket, card, paper, writing, article, thing or other device or paraphernalia which is customarily or usually used in the operation of a form or type of lottery commonly known as a numbers (or number) game or policy game (herein called "lottery paraphernalia") or any possession thereof in any vehicle of transportation by any person [...] of any such game is hereby declared to be a misdemeanor; and all conveyances or vehicles of transportation which have been [...] used by such persons for the conveying or transporting of such prohibited lottery paraphernalia into this state or from one point in the state to another point within the state [...] shall be contraband and shall be forfeited to the State of Alabama and shall be seized by any sheriff
 
First, watch these two videos in their entirety (realize they are entitled "Don't Talk to Police"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE&feature=related

Go ahead and read Jeff22's suggestions, but apply your own logic and comfort level when making your decisions re: this matter. Remember that a mistake in this arena can be costly, in more ways than one.

My own inclinations are far closer to what is contained in the videos.

I've been a cop for almost 31 years, worked full time for one dept and part time for three others, and I can honestly say I've never worked with anybody who was corrupt or brutal.

How is it there in Mayberry? :scrutiny:
 
Most of us (as armed citizens) will interact with the police in very limited ways:

1) Pulled over for vehicle stop.

2) If we open-carry, and the local LEOs are unfamiliar with that practice, being stopped for that reason.

3) In the unlikely, unfortunate event we've had to defend ourselves from a violent attack.

4) To report a crime (like theft) or dangerous situation (like another driver driving erratically), either urgently or not.

I suspect the OP's advice and the general advice of "don't talk to the police" applies more in some of these situations, and less in others.
don't have an attitude nor appear to be concealing information
That can be hard if we wish to retain our rights. If an officer stops me for a broken tail-light and asks if he can search the car, should I say "Yes" to show I have nothing to hide?'

If I have shot someone in SD, should I give a detailed statement rather than invoke my rights to remain silent (beyond certain limited information) and speak to counsel, so that I'm not "concealing information"? I think we know the answer to these.

Police are positioned in society to sometimes work for us, and sometimes against us. I'm not sure I can give any "one size fits all" advice other than "Be polite" and "Be careful".
 
why would I even consider avoiding "attracting a LEO" rather than calling the police if I witness a crime or suspicious activity?
It depends upon where I am. There are some police departments that I would NEVER have ANY voluntary contact with, EVER for ANY reason. I include the Chicago, Philadelphia and New Orleans Police Departments in that group.

I have reported crimes or suspected crimes to the Berea, Cleveland and Rocky River, Ohio police departments. But then none of them has the documented histories of corruption and outright criminality of the aforementioned three.
 
As a cop I'm against the whole "consent search" thing on traffic stops. It became popular in training in the late 1980s and I've seen a lot of guys try to do that and all it does is make citizens feel uncomfortable and sometimes violated.

Many places even teach it in the Police Academy, which (as an academy instructor, scenario evaluatior, and field training officer) I think is a major fail. Let the rookie cop get through the academy, get through field training, work a few years and accumulate some experience (and hopefully some greater understanding) and THEN maybe you begin to train them in some of the more advanced techniques.

I'd never give a cop consent to search my car. Of course, incident to a physical custody arrest they can anyways, but I don't ever expect to be in that situation . . .
 
Of course, incident to a physical custody arrest they can anyways, but I don't ever expect to be in that situation . . .
As a citizen, you easily could be, without committing ANY crime. All it takes is a cop who doesn't bother to know the law.

He could not know (or care about) the laws on concealed carry, open carry, or any of a thousand things.
 
I was a cop for 21 yrs. In a big northern city.

That was said only to estabish credibility.

The OP gave some good solid advice and then a bunch of people - many of whom I respect - almost got the thread closed with negagive balonium .

Let us stay on topic.
 
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