No More Tolerance For Zero Tolerance

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spartacus2002

Are they doing vehicle searches at schools now?

Yes, they are. Here is one of the more famous cases that was posted at TFL back in 1999.

This is an editorial that was printed at that time.

Colorado Springs Gazette (11-20-99)

OUR VIEW: Near-zero logic?
Sweeping rules on weapons in school leave
little room for common sense

As you'll glean from a glimpse at today's Tell it to The Gazette, readers aren't too keen on Mitchell High School's decision to suspend a student after a random drug search turned up a pocket knife in her car - in a first-aid kit. Permit us to amplify some of our readers' views.

The fact that the senior, Sonya Golden, is an honor student who was named to the Mayor's 100 Teens list for her leadership skills, is beside the point. No one is asking school authorities - in the unfortunate words a school District 11 official used last week in a Gazette report - "to apply different rules to different kids."

That's a red herring, in fact. We join our readers in asking simply that school officials apply common sense.

And to the extent the rules themselves impose an unworkable, one-size-fits-all standard, policy makers should apply due haste in rewriting it.

In this case, Golden had done nothing of record that should have invoked scrutiny in the first place. The school district's security department uses dogs trained to sniff out drugs, alcohol and gun powder, and on a routine search of the high school parking lot the dogs apparently turned up the scent of alcohol around Golden's car. The scent was the result of an alcohol-related crash involving the car's previous owners, Golden believes.

Golden was pulled from class and asked if her car could be searched. She readily consented. It turns out she'd forgotten about the 21/2-inch pocket knife in a first-aid kit she and her mother had prepared and placed in the glove compartment. Busted.

None of the administrators at the high school or at school district headquarters are challenging Golden's account or disputing her intent, which seems to be above reproach. Rather, officials are standing behind district policy, insisting they cannot bend the rules. She got a three-day suspension.

Those district-wide rules, which deem the pocket knife a "standard weapon," also state in part "... A student who violates this policy may be suspended and/or expelled, depending on the nature of the violation." Given the insertion of "may," it's none too clear school authorities' hands were tied. It could be read to mean Golden didn't have to be disciplined at all, depending upon the circumstances.

More generally, such sweeping "zero tolerance" policies, however well-meaning, almost invite abuse at some point. Too often, they're not thought through before they're enacted - as if intended at the time to serve
less as a legal standard than as a political statement in the wake of extraordinary school tragedies and general concerns about discipline. Then, the unintended consequences start to pop up.

Schools are to be lauded in general for trying to rein in the unruly students in their ranks. But overkill isn't the answer. We commend both Sonya Golden and her mother, Tamara Golden, for a measured and gracious response to all this. But we respectfully disagree with their shared sense that sometimes even the innocent must face the music to prevent tragedies on the order of the one last spring at Littleton's Columbine High School.

School officials are kidding themselves if they think they're setting an example for any students who might actually have ill-intent. Plenty of students, and from the looks of it, the vast majority of our readers, see right through that to the net effect: punishing the innocent.
 
My God. After reading all this, I am sooooooo glad I went to a small school. Grant you, after all the school shooting incidents(Jonesboro, Colombine, etc) they looked down (heavily with a suspension) upon someone bringing an obvious dummy grenade (with a glaring hole in the bottom) to school for some odd reason. Grant you, the kid wasnt all there, but it was a little overreactionary to someone without all the facts.

I routinely had knives on my person with the knowledge of several teachers and administrators. Also working for me was that I was pretty much the employee of the administration (who says it completely sucks being a basketball team manager), doing all the dirty work for the team and games. I got lots of leniancy (ie the 5 per year detentions for tardyness) and was permitted to exercise common sense (like ibuprofen in my locker/backpack:eek: and carrying a multi-tool and folding knife:what: ). In fact, in my school if you werent threatening people with it and such, you pretty much carried anything you wanted within reason (ie no guns, duh). I had more than one teacher who would ask the class if someone had a knife for a box or something, or ibuprofen for a classmate with a headache or game-injuries. And even the dreaded Sudafed and Benadryl!:what: :what: Oh the humanity of going to school where common sense reigned! Oh, the pain and suffering I have dealt with! Pity me!:scrutiny: :D
 
I just don't understand public schools. I went to Catholic school, where there was common sense. I'm going thru hell with my 1st grade son in public school, where the teacher and VP quite clearly don't give a flip about my son, who is a rambunctious boy. Rather than finding out ways to manage him, they just want to diagnose him as "Special Needs", medicate him, and put him into Special classes. But a private psychiatrist examined him, said he has symptoms consistent with mild ADHD, and can be managed without drugs. Example: if he's a cut-up, then WHY is his desk STILL in the BACK of the room? Don't teachers learn in Classroom Management 101 to move cut-ups to the FRONT of the room?

Sorry, rant off.

Is it that the public school curriculum is top driven by bureaucracy?
 
All of you are correct that these cases are ridiculous.
What you don't grasp is why zero tolerance has become so common.

Attitudes towards rules go in a cycle.

First, we make loose, general rules, and expect judges and administrators to apply them fairly based on the situation.

Second, we notice that they tend to give "nice" (white, middle-class) kids or defendants more breaks.

Third, we crack down by taking away the discretion of judges and administrators. (This is what zero-tolerance means, no discretion for the judge or administrator.) It is no accident that mandatory sentencing laws in the federal courts occurred at the same time as zero tolerance in schools.

Fourth, we get tired of the ridiculous applications that result from a lack of discretion, and restore it. In other words, back to stage one.

Right now we are in stage three, making the transition to stage four. Ten years from now all the same people posting on this board will be posting about how judges and administrators all favor "nice" kids and it's not fair! It makes me tired just to think about it.
 
If you want to begin to end these stupid policies, your activism has to be more personal and in-their-face.

Make it painful for the bureaucrats. Go to their meetings. Leaflet their neighborhoods, churches. Post signs such as "I Have Zero Tolerance For Idiots Like Principal Greg Poole." Pressure the school board to remove him. Or threaten to run against one of the school board members, and make it a VERY personal campaign.

Some other ideas which have proven fun and effective...

http://free_arizona.tripod.com/killiantoon.htm

http://free_arizona.tripod.com/azdor.htm

And my favorite for personalized activism...

http://free_arizona.tripod.com/activism.htm
 
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Tallpine hit it squarely on the head -

It is slow, patient, purposeful INDOCTRINATION !!!
Create a generation that does not EVER question
ANY 'authority figure'. Then will will have obedient
serfs to slave for the elite.
My children have been told
1) NEVER EVER FOR ANY REASON consent to a
search of you car, person, backpack etc.
They can search your locker (it really isn't
yours) but the other items are YOUR
PERSONAL property and the school 'officials'
have no d**n business searching and have
NO AUTHORITY to do so.
2) If they insist, call me and STAND WHERE YOU ARE
until I get there (not that far, Thank God)
These d**n morons are not going to bully/intimidate
my kids this way and hopefully my children will learn
that sometimes you just have to grow a spine and
say NO !!!!!!!!
The school 'authorities' THINK they have some
power simply because they have gotten away with
it for so long (parenting takes TIME & EFFORT and
far too many parents just seem to not want to be
bothered.)
 
Several problems and they tend to be greater in the urban schools.
SOME parents (not all) are not acting like parents and the result is thier children are raising themselves with no adult guidance. Hence, the schools are increasingly required to play the role of parent and enforcer of rules by default while the kids are at school. You parents who act like parents aren't part of the problem but in todays world, it is not PC to treat these kids different from yours.
Urban school boards can be quite liberal at times. Don't know why. In the more suburban and rural outlands school boards tend to be regular folk.
At the national and state levels the issues are often tied to more political agendas including input from more of the "university" experts. Yeah, some of this is trickle down political agendas.

BTW, I am president of our school district board of ed and we DON'T have zero tolerance but we do have a student handbook that spells out school policies. This should be available from the school admin and any parent or citizen should have a right to access this info, and a right to address the board at the regular meetings and in closed session in some circumstances. I encourage anyone with "issues" to take part in the process. its not allways perfect but it works pretty well around here. I also support a parents right to educate a child at home or in private schools.
 
TallPine

So what about lug wrenches and jack handles .... ?
That's nothing compared to high heeled shoes. At least some of the teachers who showed this girl the door were likely wearing high heeled shoes; which the police tell women to weild as a weapon if attacked. They tell them to attempt to hit the perpetrator on the head as the high heel, due to the small area of the heel's striking surface, can break the skull of the perp and drive it into his brain causing grievous injury; or even death.
 
Don't worry, we can all find relief in the knowledge that the athsma-distributing kid is now a felon, he will never be able to own a firearm again. He also won't be able to vote to change the system.
 
What really bugs me is that whenever the news report zero tolerance gone astray, there's always some blurb about good intentions gone bad. Zero tolerance IS NOT good intention. It is intellectual laziness. It's a defeatist attitude. And it is evil. The next time I hear someone say that zero tolerance is "good intention", I'm going to rip them a new one. :fire:
 
The "leaders" seem to have lost all common sense in the name of "Zero Tolerance." They seem, to me, to be trying to make robotic, socialistic, serfs for the future generations of elite leaders. Do as we say, or it's off to the jail for you!

AMEN.

I remember the case a few years back of the mom who packed her kid's lunch and put in a piece of beef from leftovers and a table knife so he could cut it. Kid was thrown out of school for bringing a weapon.

A girl got bounced for distributing "drugs" when she gave another kid a Tylenol because her head hurt.

Zero tolerance is their way to the ultimate cop out: they don't have to look at the facts and make a reasonable decision, they just make it automatic even when innocent kids suffer. What a crock.
 
I was just thinking. (Hey, it happens...) "I was just following orders" and "I was just following the rules" ceased to be a legitimate defence in 1946, so why are we accepting it from petty bureaucrats now?
 
Thing is, zero tolerance seems to tie their hands against the "good" kids, but loopholes are found for the "bad" kids.

In my long-term sub position last year in a very bad Baltimore County middle school I saw two applications.

One kid, a 13 year old with a long criminal record who was on probation (theft, burglary, drugs, assault), started cussing me out and I wasn't allowed to write him up because he was out of warnings and he'd have to be expelled (which would have been a probation violation). Then as part of the same exchange, but in front of the school's behavioral specialist, he threatened serious harm to me (he'd meet me after school, beat me until I couldn't move, to "teach you to disrespect me again"). I still couldn't write him up because the poor guy didn't deserve to get in as much trouble as the law required for that.:cuss: This was a kid BTW who was constantly disrupting class, cussing at me, threatening me, etc., but he deserved a chance and the administration ignored the zero tolerance laws by not letting me document his behavior (if I did I would have been fired quickly, as a sub that is no problem, and they would have just ripped up the write up anyway).

Another kid, a kid with a good heart but who was stupid (he had a record of petty crimes), brought a knife to school and a parent saw it when he took it out. He was expelled under zero tolerance for the rest of the school year (I felt bad for him since he really was a good kid but it was justified, I don't care how impulsive you are, you have no right to try to intimidate someone with any weapon). A month later he was back in class.:scrutiny:

Meanwhile, a chair was broken in class (a loose screw). I could have left a note for school maintenance and then if we were lucky they would have fixed it within a week. Well, we needed that chair so I took out my trusty Swiss Army Knife, swung out the screwdriver attachment, and I fixed the chair. A fellow employee (a "regular" teacher) told me I better be careful with that, the law requires that she report me to the principal for that and that he call the police. It is illegal to bring a weapon to school and legally I should have been arrested. The really bad part, she wasn't joking and she was speaking very earnestly (she thought it a big deal, and a huge favor to me, that she wasn't reporting me).:banghead:
 
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