No pistol is "good enough for bears"

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edwardware said:
This sounds like an abject failure of situational awareness on the part of both adults. Fortunately for you, you got away with it.

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This. Also, 80 yards away is not typically considered "self defense" distance.

A .45-70 is probably a better choice for bear hunting, but I doubt many people will believe it's better at true defensive ranges than a 12 gauge with quality slugs.

In any case, any handgun with a bore that starts with ".4" can probably stop any bear if they're shot in the right place, with the right ammo. Of course, a shotgun with slugs would be preferred.

I have 3 "Alaskan" longarms, a parkerized ghost ring 12 gauge, and a slide-action and a bolt-action .35 Whelen. I wouldn't feel terribly under-gunned with my .454 or even my Model 57, though.

John
 
C'mon guys give the OP a break. We all have had those "OMG, what was I thinking/not thinking!" moments. Again, as long as they are only that, folks don't get hurt and we learn from it, what's the issue. While Kodiak may seem like a terribly dangerous place, because of the tremendous amount of folks/tourists that go there just to look at the bears, like at Yellowstone, the bears get used to people and by nature leave them alone. Thru hunting, they keep a natural fear of humans and unless provoked, startled or protecting cubs are no prone to random attacks than Black bears. Geez, I allow my wife, kids and grandkids to walk and play in Black bear country all the time........man, how reckless of me. From the Kodiak Bear Center FAQs.....
Is Kodiak Island Dangerous?
By their nature, Kodiak bears are potentially dangerous but they are mostly docile creatures. There has only been one person killed by a bear on Kodiak in the past 90 years. There are people hurt by bears occasionally (about once every other year), but almost all of those involve hunters or bears being startled.
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So, the OP did not recklessly endanger his wife and kids. Their talking and scampering along the open beach and playing on the abandoned boat would have probably not started any bears, but warned the bears there were humans close by. What the scenario did tho, is to make the OP rethink his choice of weapons and how/what he taught his family when out in the wild. Not enough to ruthlessly chastise him for, at least not IMHO.
 
1942bull said:
Interesting points of view in this thread seem to be reasonable to me even when they seem contradictory. That is because there is no definitive response to the statement that "No pistol is good enough for bears." That is a clear cut declaration. But is it factual? No. I will make this statement: Any handgun is capable of taking down a bear. You could shoot a 44 magnum through a bear's outer ear and it will not do as much damage as a 22LR in the bear's eye. A 9mm in the face of a bear is going to be better than not being able to get a shot off with a rifle. Bears run at 35 MPH. That is just under 51 feet per second. How fast are you with the rifle compared to the pistol. Bear attacks do not generally occur at long distances. They mostly happen close up. A bear 100 feet away from you will be on top of you in three seconds.

Personally, I think the best defense against any bear is bear spray. Carry it in a chest holster or on a pack strap holster and you have a quickly accessible defense that can reach out to 35 feet and produce a wide cloud of 2% OC that will surely slow the bear down if not stop it or turn it away. Now you can have time to get the gun ready if you might need it.

There is a reason what National Park and Forest rangers carry bear spray. it works better than a gun. Their experiences proves that. Of course, nothing is guaranteed to work and so someday you might get the bear and someday the bear might get you. It is about odds, and bear spray is the best first line of defense in a bear attack. Everyone able to spray it should be carrying a canister in bear country. I mean everyone I the party unless they are to young to use it.

I live in PA, and I have hiked in black bear county for 30 years. I know black bears are wimpy compared to their big cousins. But when a 500 to 600 point male makes an aggressive charge it might a well be a grizzly. It can kill you just as fast. In 30 years I have encountered a few females making defensive charges intended to stop not hurt me. Defense is simple back out of the scene with bear spray ready. But when a male makes an aggressive charge it is another thing. In the two I experienced I never had to draw my duty size pistol. Bear spray simply worked. I stood fast and they ran.
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There have been documented cases of bear spray working and cases where it didn't. In fact stats show it is typically more effective on brown/grizzly bear than black bear. And in fact if you go digging, there are more deaths attributed to black bear than brown.

National Park workers carry bear spray because the government feels it is "effective enough" and they don't want the liability of arming employees with guns if they don’t have to, nor do they want the negative press that’d come with it.

Forest rangers is a vague term that doesn’t describe most people who work in the woods. I’m a professional forester who is not allowed to carry a gun. That is for my employers conveyance not because bear spray is more effective.

As a person who has spent a decade and a half working the woods on foot and spent time around predators, I’m going to agree that everyone should have bear spray. It’s light and easy to carry. But I want a gun too.
 
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Not to kick another bear thread into overdrive, but like any defensive encounter it ultimately come down to having your tools on your person at all times.

Since we know rifle cartridges are better than pistol cartridges, and more bullets are better than less bullets, why not compromise with a micro carbine? Might look dumb but mini-drako with folding brace and 20 round mags full of 762x39 may be smarter than we think. There are plenty of mall ninja tanker rigs to carry them hands free at ready. Perfectly capable of one-handed mag dumps at bad breath range or shoulder with the brace for those longer engagements people might imagine.
 
Alaska has lots of readily available information about defending against dangerous animals. I would expect anyone who lives in Alaskan and goes afield to be well aware of state guidance about bears, ie: "If you do use a firearm, shoot at close range and aim to kill the bear." What I don't understand is an entire thread dedicated to something illegal, "bear defense" at long range.
 
I carried a Glock 27 in the NC woods. A few black bears around. Never felt under gunned. If I where in Alaska I would bump it up to 10mm or 41 mag. Hunting one 300 mag would be in order.
 
The rest of the family should never have been separated that far in the first place. This whole thing was avoidable from the get-go.
 
You all can me a sissy if you want; I won’t rely on a 9mm in bear country, and I won’t go into bear country with somebody who does.
 
JShirley said:
Alaska has lots of readily available information about defending against dangerous animals. I would expect anyone who lives in Alaskan and goes afield to be well aware of state guidance about bears, ie: "If you do use a firearm, shoot at close range and aim to kill the bear." What I don't understand is an entire thread dedicated to something illegal, "bear defense" at long range.
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Very good point.
 
1942bull said:
Personally, I think the best defense against any bear is bear spray. Carry it in a chest holster or on a pack strap holster and you have a quickly accessible defense that can reach out to 35 feet and produce a wide cloud of 2% OC that will surely slow the bear down if not stop it or turn it away. Now you can have time to get the gun ready if you might need it.
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If I had to pick between having bear spray or a gun to defend myself against a bear that wants to kill me well, for me, that's a classic "no-brainer" proposition. A determined bear, especially a sow with cubs, might well get past your mist irritant and really ruin your day. Of course I can't help noticing that your "best defense against any bear" spray presumes that you have a gun to get to if you should really "need" it...;)
 
We have two bear threads going today. How exciting.

What about tigers? Tigers are big and eat people. That odd fellow, Joe Exotic #TigerKing, seemed to have some decent gun leather and a six gun that he used at one point to scare off a tiger that was having a mild chew on his foot. Anyone know what the alternative lifestyle, methmouth, big cat people are using?
 
I think that protecting someone from a bear charge that is happening 80 yards away from the shooter is a bad situation even with a rifle. Bears move quickly and I do not think that at 80 yards you would have made much difference even if you had a rifle. Your wife and child would have been mauled for sure.
I think that your life style demands that you find a suitable sidearm for your wife & teach her to shoot it well. That doesn't mean you should be careless & leave her alone but when you are out in the woods it's impossible for everyone to be close all the time so if she has her own gun & she's ever caught in a bad situation alone she'll have a chance.
In addition having a second person with you that carries a gun and knows how to use it is great backup insurance in any dangerous spot.
Buy back that G20, give it to your wife and teach her to shoot it well.
 
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