No support for my CCW :(

[runswithscissors]

Hi all, I would like to first say great posts and replies. I feel that forums like these help promote safe and healthy firearm views. As such, I would like some advice. I live in VA and would like to begin to carry. I have done extensive research on the matter and feel that carrying for protection would not be such a bad idea. However, it seems everyone else I talk to, with the exception of my few gun buddies, thinks it is a bad idea.
Violent crimes in my area have begun to rise at an alarming rate and I wanted to carry for protection. I would of course take all the proper classes as well as practice, practice, practice.
My problem is that my family and girlfriend are against me carrying. The following was a brief acount of my discussion with my mom about it.

Me: Mom, I would like to start carrying.

Mom: Why?

Me: Why not?

Mom: It's not a good idea, it's just stupid. You don't need one(gun). Just be
safe and pay attention to your surroundings.

Me: I do that already but I would feel safer carrying.

Mom: It's too dangerous, someone could use your gun against you.

Me: Umm... if I'm pulling out my gun, my life is already in grave danger.

Mom: Besides, you have a sweet heart and are very sensitive, you could
never cope knowing that you have shot and killed someone.

Me: I would not be carrying unless I felt that I am prepared for that
consequence.

Mom: Whatever. (I took this to be the end of the conversation and left)

I have searched on the internet for incidents where a legally CCW user had their own weapon used against them. Do you guys know of any? What advice can you give me on the matter of my CCW and the lack of support from my family and girlfriend? Would it be better to just not get my CCW to keep them happy? Any advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[oldfart]

Hey man, if you want to do it then go ahead and do it. It's bad enough that you have to ask permission of the State but if you need Mommy's ok too, then you might as well forget it.

 

[artherd]

It is your decision to make, not their's. It is YOUR life, not their's.

It is a huge and grave responsibility, but if you feel you are up for it, and up to getting the training (take a class, even if you state does not require it.) then by all means.

Having a Gun, and knowing how and when to effectively use it, is what makes us Citizens, not Subjects. It is a GOOD thing, and it IS a defensive tool.

 

[P95Carry]

Runs ..... this is indeed YOUR decision ... and only yours. If as we'd assume you are of an age to get a CCW then go for it.

Just remember that it is an awesome responsibility .. not to be taken lightly. You may end up with blood on your hands and all sorts of legal guff to cope with but .... hey ........ you'd still be here.

The odds are, you'll never use it ... that's the good news ....... the bad news is, if you do ... you probably have much to deal with. Life-altering experience and all that.

As for the piece being used against you ........ well, that's a fave of anti-speak .... and not of utmost importance. What IS important, is that you develop the highest plain of skills re situational awareness and so .... finish up avoiding way more hassles than perhaps otherwise.

I'd suggest perhaps ..... if you feel you still have to rationalize and explain .. you use the seat-belt, fire-extinguisher, insurance analogies .... it is there ''just in case''. Simple really. Get some good tuition tho - it is invaluable.

 

[Diggler]

If you're old enough to buy and carry a firearm, you're old enough not to ask your parents' permission for your life decisions.

 

[fjolnirsson]

Hmm. Your mom's comment to be aware of your surroundings is great advice, as far as it goes. But read what happened to one of my fellow PRK residents recently....
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83264&highlight=drug+deal+mag+light+car+door

Ultimately, it's your choice. Go armed, and be safer, or listen to mom's advice on how to defend yourself. It's your life. Not to be harsh, but I'm sure she'd be happier going to your trial than your funeral.

Check out this site, and maybe hit her with some key points:

http://www.a-human-right.com/
My advice is, don't be a victim of your mother's media fuelled irrational fears. Make the decision for yourself.
IF you aren't certain you can take a life in defense of your own, DON"T CARRY!
Whatever you do, train often!

 

[Garrum]

If possible, get your mom to read some on http://www.a-human-right.com/ like fjolnirsson says. Good stuff there.

Unless of course she is like my mom, who will oppose whatever you do just as a matter of course. Her favorite thing to do is make fun of me wearing my pistol, mag pouch, Leatherman and M3 light (and pocket knife and Surefire E2e). It's always, "Are you afraid someone is going to get you?" My usual response of, "Do you were a seatbelt because you are afraid of having a wreck?" doesn't even phase her. Like I said, opposed regardless.

 

[ssr]

With carrying, or even gun ownership, comes great responsibility. It is not done nonchalantly. To do it you need to do what's right for you and be your own person, and be a responsible adult. That means being your own person, separate from your parents. That also means you can do it, feel good about it and your decision, and it's none of their business. And you can still be a good and loving son in the process.

Of course, you need to be your own man/woman and cannot be dependant or reliant on them for you well being.

 

[berettaman]

RWS,I hate to be seen as "talkin' bout your mama" but you still can't cut the apron strings? Looks like mother wins again.Grow a pair.

:Cold hearted but needs to be brought up:
When you have been shot,stabed,or beaten and now they've moved on to rapeing your girl friend,you might ask her if she's ready to rethink the whole carrying a gun thing.

It's your life,live it and defend it how you like.As for me and my home,we shall carry concealed.

 

[Bubbles]

Are you still living with your parents? If so, and they say 'No Guns', then that's exactly what it means. If you're not, it's really none of their business.

The girlfriend is another story. Does she shoot? Does she have a problem with you owning guns, whether or not you carry? Is she the type to give you an ultimatum (either the guns go or I do...)? Read these forums long enough and you'll find plenty of stories about guys getting screwed (literally) because their girlfriends or wives don't like guns. Just something to consider...

 

[hillbilly]

Uh, Runswithscissors, how old are you?

Your post seems fishy to me. Here's why:

Either you are not old enough to legally carry a handgun, which answers your question.

Or, you are old enough to legally purchase your own handgun which means you are at least 21 and legally an adult so it really doesn't matter what mom says.

Am I misreading your post because there is information you aren't telling us?

Are you really wanting to carry?

I'm paranoid enough to wonder if you are an anti trying to get folks on this gun board to tell someone who isn't of legal age to start illegally carrying a gun anyway.



hillbilly

 

[Ben Shepherd]

First thing you need to do: Get it straight in your mind wether or not you can look at a human face and pull the trigger anyway. If you have trouble with this concept you may not want to carry. While you "shoot to stop", death is a real possibility. I've seen it before, and it can be pretty un-nerving.

As for the others: SCREW 'EM!!! It's your life, you protect it how you see fit. If people are too stupid to realize "stuff happens", well then let them walk around in condition white. As for me, carrying a bullet and knife scar, and you too it sounds like, we will prepare ourselves for what could happen.

All the above based on the premise that you are old enough, and legal to own a gun, and can obtain a valid CCW permit.

 

[jfh]

if you have to ask...

There's a big difference in asking someone for permission to do something, and having the maturity, skills/ability, and knowledge to do it.

I'm with hillbilly. Let's have another post from runswithscissors to explain this more.

 

[runswithscissors]

Hey guy/gals, thanks so much for your input so far. It appears that I do need to explain further about my situation. I live in VA where I attend school and work. I am 23 and may legally carry. To clarify, I wasn't really asking my mom permission on the matter, more seeking her support. I don't get to see my family as much as I would like becuase I am in school and working, so when I do get to see them I like to talk about how things are going with me and mine. I also value my families opinion and felt that such a serious decision to carry should not be taken lightly and should be discussed with others to make sure I am getting as many angles on the situation as possible. My mom has since started to come around as well as the rest of my family. It's not that they don't want me to protect myself, they just wanted to make sure that I was really ready. After reading your replies and other posts about CCW, I think I have decided to wait until I am ready. By ready I mean a secure gun safe, child locks, proper equipment, SEVERAL classes about safety and proper technique etc. Becuase I live off campus I may and do keep a firearm(rifle) in the house. However, my roomates bring in people from school that I don't know, and don't always trust. I think it would be irresponsible to not have a gun safe for the handgun. Thank you all very much for your help in this decision. I feel that the decision to wait is the best for now. To anyone else who may be in my shoes considering whether to carry, please visit a forum site or talk to friends and family to gain different views on the matter. While protecting oneself is ultimately their own responisibility and choice, I would recommend discussing your decision with loved ones becuase they will hopefully be honest enough to tell you what they really think about the situation. As a side note, my parents has been very supportive of my desire to shoot competitively and want to help in any way they can. Thank you all again so much for your words of wisdom, I look forward to many more questions which you all willl undoubtedly be of great help.

 

[another okie]

Here's a handy tip if you do decide to carry: Don't tell anyone. Don't tell your mother, don't tell your friends. I know this is hard advice to follow. You've probably grown up in a culture of Oprah Winfrey and Jerry Springer where everyone talks about everything. If your friends and family know, they will talk about it in public where others can hear, and eventually there will be problems - someone will say "They threatened to shoot someone" or something. There are a lot of highly irrational ideas about guns out there.

And if you ever are in a situation where you need your handgun, it should be a surprise to the bad guys that you have one. Friends and family are very likely to turn to you and say "You have a gun. Do something!" This is not good. Anyone who does know you carry needs to be told plainly to shut up in public about it, and to be told to act normally if something happens.

 

[jfh]

that's a real linear-sequential approach

and a thorough one, runswithscissors. Are you a first-born?

Your general strategy sounds fine, at least from an intellectualized approach for your desire for CCW for self-defense.

Get the gun safe, get the handgun you want, and start to shoot--a lot. I'd recommend 1000 rounds a month, if you can afford it. Spend more money on a simple Lee autoloader to build your practice rounds...learn that handgun so its use is 'imprinted' so you no longer think about it--that frees you to consider the real issues of CCW.

Have fun.

 

[ssr]

Sounds good. Carrying is such an individual responsibility, that you need to be sure of your decision and secure in your actions, regardless of anothers opinion. Dealing with this can also lead to a higher level of maturity.

 

[Sawdust]

Excellent post and thought process, runswithscissors.

You are obviously giving the subject careful, considered thought, and with prime consideration to personal responsibility.

Good show.

Sawdust

 

[GEM]

At 23, girlfriends - however committed you feel now, are expendable. If a GF has a real gun issue, give her some of the gun books by women like Oyster and Stange, Gila Hayes, etc. If no change - it won't get better and adios.

I support 100% getting some quality training before carrying. Do that and then carry.

I also worry about room-mates. Get new ones if they can't be trusted.

 

[Waitone]

This is your decision to make. You get to live with the consequences good or bad.

Unless you mother can articulate her opposition beyond the usual objections chalk it up to emotionalism and treat it as such.

Don't make the mistake of trying to please you GF or mother by not packing since you are of age.

Likewise don't think you can buy their agreement by safing up the place. Safe practice is its own justification. Implementing safe stuff in the absence of a need is no different that using trigger locks just because it sounds good. Get training in safety and safe shooting. Brand the 4 rules of safe gun handling on your mind. Implement safe storage as defined by your actual needs not as a result of trying to appease your GF or mother.

Again, you can not buy support for CCH by larding safe stuff on top of safe stuff.

Good luck.

 

[hillbilly]

Okay runswithscissors, thanks for the followup information.

I see your struggles and thought process.

But again, I think this one comes down to all your choices.

You are legally an adult.

You are also, as evidenced by your careful consideration of the process, quite capable of making rational, careful decisions.


It's all up to you.

Like someone else said, you even get to make the choice as to whether or not you will tell people that you do carry.

If carrying is something you want to do, then do it, even if your family doesn't support it.

But be prepared to face the consequences, both the good ones and the bad ones, of your choices.

Good luck.

hillbilly

 

[foghornl]

Runswithscissors:

It it YOUR life and YOUR decision. But here is a news flash for those that think CCW is a bad idea all the way around...

Ohio just got CCW passed. Some businesses have posted "NO WEAPONS" signs. First Merit Banks have done so; In the last 12 days, there have been 5...count them 5...armed robberies of First Merit banks...

One an ATM customer in Akron, 1 in Columbus, OH, and 3 more in Akron. For details, visit the website for Ohioans for Concealed Carry.

(link should take you directly to story...second story on page)

http://www.ofcc.net/news.html

p.s. like that name. Used to hear it a lot as a kid, prefaced with " Dont...........

 

[Diggler]

If you're looking for support for CCW, look for it in a double-thickness gunbelt. That's all the support you need!

 

[runswithscissors]

Thanks so much for all of your support. My GF is actually cool with guns and keeps asking to go the range with me. I really should take her becuase she wants to know how to defend herself as well. I am taking her to the gun show tommorrow to look for a .22 pistol or rifle for her to practice stance and familiarity with. Thanks again for all your words and support. Talk to all of you later.

 

[Tom Servo]

Mom: It's too dangerous, someone could use your gun against you

Correct me if I'm wrong here guys, but there has never been a documented case of this happening. Kleck mentions this in Armed. Although it happens to LEOs, they're in a different spot for several reasons:

• They carry openly, so criminals know they're armed,
• They carry openly, so the gun is more accessible to a second party, and
• They generally get into closer proximity with the BG, making the gun more easily accessible.

In Georgia, attempting to take someone's firearm is considered a threat on their life, and the person being robbed legally has the right to use lethal force. I sure wouldn't take the chance of them suceeding, though I carry IWB, making it very difficult to get to and giving me the option of using alternate (and more...hands on) approaches to defending myself.

The plain fact is, criminals know that the cops can't just mow them down. Civilians can't either, but criminals never know if the guy they're dealing with is one of those Dirty Harry/Bernie Goetz types, so they think twice before messing with an armed civilian.

Though I do my best to keep a certain amount of "personal space' between myself and others, for many reasons, this really rates low on my list of worries.