NOLA Police Officer killed with her own gun

[wheelgunslinger]

Biker wrote:

Seven minutes is an un-Godly long time to fight, especially on the ground against a larger, stronger opponant. Gotta hand it to her for holding out that long - took a lot of heart.

You said a mouthful.
There are a lot of men who would cower at the idea of taking on someone with a significant physical advantage.
I think this young woman's 7 minutes should acquit her pretty well as having been tough and smart. And trained well.
I've been in more than my share of scraps against guys my size and smaller. 7 minutes is a long time to fight someone at your own strength level, let alone someone larger and stronger.

It did take a lot of heart. Mad respect.
While it's a shame she was killed, she died heroically.

 

[jenrob]

Pretty funny! not that an officer got killed nothing funny about somebody kid, mother, wife ect. getting killed but you hear what people are saying. Everybody there is Bad, I don't like cops. My mom use to live in one of the worst area of her city. I tried to get here to move but she insisted that it was fine. She would walk out to the crack dealers on her corner and take pictures of there liscense plates. But she had a lot of respect from a couple of the big bad guys and they had informed her that nobody would touch her. I still didn't like it. but to say everybody in that area is bad or all I hate all cops just show real smarts and that you probably don't have a clue. Maybe we should think about hey theres a women getting beat up by a guy jump in and help her. hey theres my best friends dad getting beat up lets help him. Or that little old lady at the store that gave you her last 5 dollars so you could buy you baby some milk she lives in that area that we don't dare go into. A place where that officers job took her. A place where people just stand back (no boke bone) and say they never helped me. Well now there is one less to help you one less to help any of us.

 

[NG VI]

I think the fact that she was a woman was very much relevant, the suspect she was looking for was a rapist. why would anyone in their right mind send a young woman alone to arrest a rapist? anyone else pick up on that? current and former LEOs please wigh in on that for me, I'd like to understand more clearly

 

[Phil DeGraves]

Confiscating all those weapons sure made it safer, didn't it?

 

[waterhouse]

Terrible news. I've been in timed, training fights (where I was in no actual fear of losing my life) that lasted 4 minutes. I was exhausted to the point of nausea by the end of one of these bouts. That cop showed a lot of will to survive. Sorry it ended the way it did.

Along with the regular budget restraints, NO is currently in the middle of Mardi Gras, and just about every cop available is working extra hours from last week through next Wednesday working crowd/drunk/parade control, so that spreads the numbers even thinner than they would normally be.

Handcuffing someone who does not want to be handcuffed is incredibly difficult, even with multiple officers helping to subdue the suspect.

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

the suspect she was looking for was a rapist. why would anyone in their right mind send a young woman alone to arrest a rapist?

You're asking why a woman would go and confront someone who specifically preys on women? Man, I started to answer that but even by my standards it was getting ugly in a hurry.

I'll just refer you to your local feminist recruitment facility. They should be able to answer you satisfactorily.

Incidentally, quite a few females on my department acknowledge the disparity of force between the sexes.

And out of all the females on my department, if I was ever in a real life-threatening scrap, there is exactly ONE that I would thank God for if she showed up.

 

[NG VI]

thanks MOM!

and to everyone on the board, or just observing like we all used to, I was not in any way being sexist.

 

[hobgob]

I have never had to face a situation like that, but i would like to think that if i was legally carrying a gun and witnessed the sitaution that i would have the moral and mental steel to do the right thing and intervene and help. I think this is why we need more people who are well trained to deal with threats like this. This is a sad story... my condolences to those affected.

 

[hobgob]

I have never had to face a situation like that, but i would like to think that if i was legally carrying a gun and witnessed the sitaution that i would have the moral and mental steel to do the right thing and intervene and help. I think this is why we need more civilians who are well trained to deal with threats like this. This is a sad story... my condolences to those affected.

 

[jenrob]

I have done some defensive tactics and they had a fighting for 5min just to show us what it was to stuggle hard core for five min. After that 5min I didn't even want to get up off the floor.

I can't say 100% that I would jump in but Ill throw a 99%, but I know most off the officers around the towns and would jump in without hesitation.

I keep a pretty good awarensss about my surroundings and everytime I see an officer on the side I check around the area even if I just drive by, but if I thought they needed help would not hesitate to stop.

With that I would not advise this to everyone. As I said getting to know them would be a good place to start. If you see them in the store talk to them. Get to know them so they don't mistake you for the BG's friend.

MOM
My wife if the chance came up to arrest a rapist or somebody doing harm to children would jump on it. I worry about it but that is what she has chosen to do so I respect it. I think about things like this all the time.

 

[chris in va]

She radioed for assistance. Before assistance could arrive, the suspect took her holstered gun from her and murdered her with it

As often said on here, when seconds count, police are only minutes away. If they couldn't get to another PO in time, certainly can't for an average citizen.

 

[ilbob]

And out of all the females on my department, if I was ever in a real life-threatening scrap, there is exactly ONE that I would thank God for if she showed up.

One would think that in such a situation any help would be appreciated, even female help. if nothing than as a distraction.

I have not been in any life threatening fights. A few altercations that were mostly wrestling as much as anything else, but not since high school. A few minutes and you are just drained.

 

[XavierBreath]

Administrator or not that is absolute and utter BS....

If you truly think it had NOTHING to do with her death ya really are out of touch with reality.... it likely played at least a part to one degree or another.

Gentlemen,

I think you misunderstand me. I am not stating that an average woman is as strong as an average man. I am not saying an average woman can lift as much, jump as far, fight as long, run as far, or dive as deep.

It takes little upper body strength to use good tactics and pull a trigger if needed. Poor tactics and perhaps the reluctance to pull a trigger played a huge role here.

I am saying that attempting to cuff a suspect alone is a poor tactical decision. I am saying that the suspect was not combative, was not a threat, until Cotton tried to cuff him. That is when the altercation that led to her death began.

The decision to cuff the suspect alone had nothing to do with Cotton's gender. In the same situation, a man who tried to cuff the same suspect alone would likely have had a fight that went to the ground, and may have had his weapon used against him. If you believe men are immune from this happening to them, you are incorrect.

That is why I say Nicola Cotton's gender was not an issue in her death, and her bad decisions were. Now you can cherry pick quotes and read into it what you want, but my words speak for themselves. There is no need to try to twist them. Feel free to disagree and go cuff violent offenders by yourself, with a gun on your hip, at any time. After all, you are male and can handle it, right?

At least I would bet 1 saltine cracker on it being at least part of the perps decision. I bet he knew she was a woman and he thought he could take her out.

I'll bet you he knew he outweighed the officer trying to cuff him alone, and thought he could over power them. Further, I'll bet you if a man had tried to cuff Bernell Johnson alone, the same struggle would have erupted. Once the struggle erupted and went to the ground, the male officer would have been at risk of losing his sidearm, and just as vulnerable to it's bullets.

While I think women can do most anything as well (if not better) than men. There are limits that Mother Nature has set on them. Political Correctness can’t wash away the FACT that women are physically smaller and weaker than men.

IMHO female officers should NEVER ride alone!

IMHO NO officer should ride alone.

Speaking as a police officer and former Marine who has actual, real life experience training with females of the same occupation on both occasions, I'll have to entirely disagree with you on this. The VAST majority of women simply can't compare with even the average male where combat (or patrol) effectiveness is concerned.

There was no combat until Nicola Cotton tried to cuff Bernell Johnson. I am a 220 pound six foot man. I have enough sense to not try to handcuff an 800 pound grizzly bear, or even a 500 pound juvenile grizzly that is blind in one eye and has a bad leg. I would also not attempt to cuff a 200 pound man without assistance. I also would not have tried to cuff Bernell Johnson alone. Yes, size and strength matters, but if you do not engage and enrage the potential threat, you avoid the combat.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Here is a story of a different sort, Police Officer with some help from a citizen/ridealong.

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-3840034_ITM

Good story.

http://www.nrahq.org/law/graphics/summer2004.pdf

HQ

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

Here's the kicker, Xavier. The job still has to get done. A lot of the time you don't have someone with you and so you are left to do it alone.

It's all about playing the odds. Sure, your next traffic stop might be a murderous lunatic, but that can't prevent you from making the stop. A lot of the seemingly mundane things are what turn into what we read in that article.

A sergeant of ours made a traffic stop a couple of months ago and the driver bailed and ran. The sergeant chased on foot but the guy ran into a neighborhood and was lost. What did we find out the next day? The guy had jumped a fence, drew a pistol, and told his friend that if the cop came over the fence he was going to kill him.

Was there aby way to forsee that? Does it mean that SWAT should stop all speeders from now on?

No. What it means is the job is dangerous. It means some people should have been smothered at birth. It means you ALWAYS need to be ready for EVERYTHING and, since that's impossible, you need to be as close to ready as you can. You need to be ready to run down, out fight, and outshoot, Charlie Manson himself because he may be the guy who answers the door on your next noise complaint.

Every bit of ground you give to the criminals does nothing but increases your odds of death. It doesn't mean you WILL die on any given day, but it gets you that much closer. Timid males, small females, poor fighers, poor shooters, bad drivers, they honestly have no place where danger is a constant, and other people rely on you.

She died and that is a shame, but what if it had been worse? What if he turned that gun on responding officers and killed some of them, too? What if he took hostages and killed them? The answer is, people, as a whole would say, "Wow, what a shame" and immediately ignore all the real problems and immediately go about making the same mistakes?

When other officers bitch to me about bad policy or dangerous command decisions I always like to tell them, "Lawsuits cost money, dead cops are free."

 

[Samuel Adams]

Cotton broke rule number 1 of officer safety

She didn't call her traffic in to the dispatch center until after she needed help. I work in a dispatch center and formerly worked in law enforcement, both civilian and military. Call your location and nature of your traffic before you make contact - period.

 

[ilbob]

did anyone else find it odd that the shooter apparently just sat there and waited for the next cop to show up after the shooting?

 

[Rachen]

Mixed Martial Arts?

It is good that somebody have brought up the topic of Mixed Martial Arts or any martial art in a case. Besides guns, I also practice Wushu, a form of Chinese swordfighting that utilizes the Da Dao, or the Great Sword (a wide bladed broadsword) I have been studying it for almost 5 years. However, I would like to point out one of the many misconceptions around martial arts.

Most people who are not affiliated with this sporting world would feel that martial arts are the cure to any type of scumbaggedness that occurs in daily life. Perhaps too much Jackie Chan movies, However, if you are an actual practitioner of the arts, you would know that the skills you can use in martial arts, any of them, are limited.

Martial arts is useful against tactics such as rapes, abductions, hostage situations such as bank robberies and armored car robberies, and such. A professional martial artist could easily defeat the above aformentioned situations. However, such situations are completely different from killing intent. If someone is intent on killing, martial arts would be practically useless. Even Wushu and Ninjutsu, the most vaunted and feared of the martial arts, would prove useless against an opponent who is bent on killing.

In Harry Potter, the author writes about several countercurses such as the Shield Charm, which can work against any type of jinx your opponent can throw at you. Yet, none of them can work against the killing curse, which Voldemort is very fond of using. From a martial artist's point of view, that is completely true. If you take everything from Harry Potter and put it into let's say, ninjutsu combat against an assassin in feudal Japan, well, you have a reality story.

So, from all of the martial arts I have learned, the best defense I have found against killing intent is simply to avoid situations where you might be taken out with little or no hesitation. Of course, this is not a foolproof answer at all. Nothing can be predicted, but I am just using this as an answer to my own statement.

Kind of like Japanese crack troops trained in Ninjutsu for decades until they were deployed to China in the 1930s. Well they learned the hard way, since the Chinese Partisans aren't going to fight fair with those invaders who killed so many innocent people.

So basically, the significance of me bringing up this topic is that there is no foolproof, defection-proof guaranteed answer to the matter of "defense" A lot of other things have to go hand in hand, and common sense if the first, and most important of all of them.

 

[totoro]

Officer Cotton

Nicola Cotton will be laid to rest Friday,February 1,2008 at noon,New Orleans time.They found out today that Nicola was pregnant at the time of her death...............

 

[Leanwolf]

SILVERLANCE - "this story reinforces why one should not attempt to cuff a subject.

further, this story reinforces why one should not physically attempt to prevent a burgular/thief/vandal from fleeing. as much as it would gall me, if a guy broke into my house and I got him at gun point, if he turned around and tried to run out the window I would not try to tackle him."

You are 100% correct.

L.W.