Non “assault weapon” type semi auto rifle?

[CapnMac]

OP's premise has a flaw or two.

Original Fed AWB did not limit itself to "rifle" ammunition. It included all firearms, even .22s; and shotguns, and pistols. The Latter were specifically called out by name and manufacturer (the "Streetsweeper" shotgun is still a DD). Any handdgun with a magazine ahead of the trigger was verboten, other than the Olympic target guns by specific naming. The only .22s not banned had to have tube magazines, and no more than the two of the "bad" features.

As a point of note, DiFi handed a staffer a Guns Digest and a Marks-a-Lot, and said "[C]ircle anything that looks like a machine gun" to populate the original list. They then cobbled together a list of all the features all those things shared to give us the banned features list, which was above and beyond the named banned list.

As a tidibit, the Fed AWB had 10 or 12 pages of "exempted" guns--all sorts of lever actions, pump actions, and some odd outlierd, like Iver-Johnson M1 Carbines.

For those who were not neck deep in the Fed AWB debacle, it had some goofy unintended consequences. Like, there's not room to put a manufacture date and "for military or police use only" on a disintegrating machine gun belt link. Marine Reserve units were raking the ranges up for spare links as the supply chain was held up. 8.5 years (103 months) into the ban, B(AT)FE wrote a letter to Sarco stating that they could print the manufacture date and "for military and police use only" on the boxed case of links and be "legal." Huzzah.

 

[GEM]

The criminological research from just before and after the AWB ban expired clearly pointed out that there were equally efficacious guns that avoid the AWB features. It's not a mystery to folks who want to ban them. If you have been following the news, Norway is going for a ban that explicity also takes out guns like the Mini-14 as it was used in a rampage there. It was also used for one in Canada quite a few years ago.

 

[cdb1]

What is the difference in utility between an AR in .308 and a .308 BAR with a 20 round magazine(if such magazine exists)?

 

[kimberkid]

SKS ...

 

[RussellC]

I’m not making a convenient confiscation list, you shouldn’t either. Reporters and politicians are very aware of other styles of firearms. They don’t care and they have an agenda, one you further by titling the thread with assault weapon. Starting a thread to prove their bias only preaches to the choir.

Agreed. If anything should be banned, it should be the word "assault rifle." I know what the OP meant, no offense....

Russellc

 

[theotherwaldo]

The goal of these bans is not to remove firearms from the hands of the general public. Instead, it is to make these political leaders' political and social opponents appear to be atavistic criminals, the enemies of all right-thinking people. Rather like how they are portraying the NRA, but broader and stronger.
Meanwhile, criminals, anarchists, and revolutionaries will be tolerated and allowed to remain in circulation - both to act as wolves to keep the sheep in line and to prepare the people for accepting the next step in subjugation.

This is a pattern that has been repeated wherever communists and progressives are coming into power.
What guns have not yet been criminalized will be irrelevant. Their time will come.

 

[plinky]

how many different semi auto centerfire rifle makes are there? I’m talking no pistol grip, collapsible stock weapons? We all know every semi auto rifle that looks scary is called an AR15, but other than the Ruger Mini 14/30 rifles, what other makes of weapons fit the bill? There’s gotta be tens of millions of Ruger mini 14/30 rifles out there alone.

Exclude M1 Garands since not magazine fed.

M1 carbines? Isn’t that more of a pistol round?

M1A for sure is on the list.

Rifle rounds only. No pistol caliber carbines.

People calling for a ban don’t realize how many just as equally capable non scary weapons are out there.

M1A is on what list? I don't think it is on the "banned by name list" but most have a threaded barrel and a barrel shroud. It will only take one "feature" to ban guns if the law passes. A new ban compliant model could be made if not already but unless exempted, a full-feature M1A should be a problem. I don't see it on the 2017 banned or exempted list but the features are a problem.

Don't know why you're discounting PC carbines. At shorter ranges, they can be nearly as powerful as an AR and short range covers a lot of civilian use...including crime actually. If the media thinks .223 shooting FMJ is "devastatingly powerful" they've not discovered the effect of a fat pistol JHP at carbine velocity.

This would be my next choice for a SD carbine after an AR. A Mini-14 would be alright but so close to an AR that it is bound to be banned in a second round.

If I were to dream up a very effective workaround, it would be a Ruger .44 Carbine which takes Desert Eagle mags. Even better, chamber it in .44 AutoMag. With a walnut stock of course. I could even live with 10 round mags but would rather not.

 

[Homerboy]

Agreed. If anything should be banned, it should be the word "assault rifle." I know what the OP meant, no offense....

Russellc

Which is why I put the words in quotes.

 

[danez71]

In speaking about PC carbines...

This would be my next choice for a SD carbine after an AR. A Mini-14 would be alright but so close to an AR that it is bound to be banned in a second round.

On some level, I wish you were right but of the mini gets banned, so will the PC carbines as non of the proposed ban laws ever make any distinction between various centerfire calibers. Some make the 50 cal doubly ban-able and most tend to exempt rimfire.

 

[farmerboy78]

First thing, you need to educate yourself... an ar15, legal semi ak47, and similar rifles aren't assault rifles... They are semi auto... an assault rifle is used in war and are select fire or full auto, and not civilian legal without a federal permit. We need to stop using this rhetoric for a completely civilian legal tool.

 

[GEM]

In this debate - understand this - no one cares about hermenutic analyses of the word assault or the origins as some old WWII German gun. The bans will try to take out semiauto guns. There may be partial steps like we see with the neutering of guns as in California or NY. However, that's just a step in the total ban direction. "Educating" people on the word assault, I'm sorry to say is useless.

It is version of the excuse defense. The AR is a nice gun because it isn't like some old German gun and not fully auto. NO ONE CARES! They kill tens of kids and adults in a short time.

If you make the full auto distinction to make your AR nice, you just gave up any attempt to change the NFA rules (like that was ever going to happen anyway). There is an article in the Atlantic arguing that ARs are eviler than AKs and Mini-14s because it takes longer to insert the mag in the latter two. That gives you more time to charge the rampage killer in the reload and punch him in the nose. The discussion has reached that level of stupidity.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

There is an article in the Atlantic arguing that ARs are eviler than AKs and Mini-14s because it takes longer to insert the mag in the latter two. That gives you more time to charge the rampage killer in the reload and punch him in the nose. The discussion has reached that level of stupidity.

And I thought the nadir was that Atlantic article by a doctor saying that ARs need to be banned because their bullets yaw and fragment in tissue. Guess it must be the evil pistol grip that does that...

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Original Marlin Model 60 (18 rd tube) is an assault weapon in New Jersey (which is how we got the 14 rd tube standard Model 60 today, Marlin's work around).
When the Volstead Act was passed to implement the prohibition of intoxicating liquors, a lot of people thought the activism against the evils of Demon Rum and John Barleycorn meant their beer and wine would be safe. Never underestimate the zeal of prohibitionists.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The doctor mentioned in Post #37 who compared handgun wounds to .223 AR rifle wounds apparently never saw wounds from .30-30, .308 big game rounds.

If the AR rifle should be banned because .223 wounds are worse than typical handgun wounds, what does that say about rifles that fire typical big game rounds?

 

[cdb1]

”Educating" people on the word assault, I'm sorry to say is useless.

True, I believe the people who get the definition wrong don’t care to get it right.

 

[Tommygunn]

The doctor mentioned in Post #37 who compared handgun wounds to .223 AR rifle wounds apparently never saw wounds from .30-30, .308 big game rounds.

If the AR rifle should be banned because .223 wounds are worse than typical handgun wounds, what does that say about rifles that fire typical big game rounds?

That made me pull out my hair ... or want to. Yes, centerfire rifle bullets will cause worse wounds than handgun bullets. Wow....fantasmagorical epiphany that! Geeeesh.

 

[Goosey]

That made me pull out my hair ... or want to. Yes, centerfire rifle bullets will cause worse wounds than handgun bullets. Wow....fantasmagorical epiphany that! Geeeesh.

That article was absurd.

"It’s clear to me that AR-15 and other high-velocity weapons, especially when outfitted with a high-capacity magazine, have no place in a civilian’s gun cabinet ... Rubio said at a town-hall event hosted by CNN that it is impossible to create effective gun regulations because there are too many “loopholes,” and that a “plastic grip” can make the difference between a gun that is legal and one that is illegal. But if we can see the different impacts of high- and low-velocity rounds clinically, then the government can also draw such distinctions."

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/553937/

 

[stolivar]

My "sleeper" assault rifle is a Saiga Sporter carbine in the stock condition as it was imported into the U.S.

I suspect it is also fairly rare as most of them were converted to AK configuration.

Salga is on the list for awb

 

[Shimitup]

Any handgun with a magazine ahead of the trigger was verboten, other than the Olympic target guns by specific naming.

Ridiculous! That just made me fly off the broomhandle.

 

[VVelox]

My "sleeper" assault rifle is a Saiga Sporter carbine in the stock condition as it was imported into the U.S.

I suspect it is also fairly rare as most of them were converted to AK configuration.

Unfortunately lots of places ban all Saigas as part of the AWB.

 

[Homerboy]

First thing, you need to educate yourself... an ar15, legal semi ak47, and similar rifles aren't assault rifles... They are semi auto... an assault rifle is used in war and are select fire or full auto, and not civilian legal without a federal permit. We need to stop using this rhetoric for a completely civilian legal tool.

I don’t need to educate myself. I am fully aware of the legal definition of an assault rifle being selective fire. But we can scream all we want because nobody is hearing it. The newly accepted definition of an “assault rifle” is pistol grip and collaspable stock. People have accepted the “fact” that an AR15 is issued to the military. We know this is wrong but no corrections are ever accepted.

I just read the Parkland kids “manifesto”. They are calling for. Ban on ALL high velocity semi auto rifles. Anybody know a rifle, pistol caliber or not, that isn’t high velocity?

They’re also calling for a separate database for anybody undegoi g mental health treatment to be paired with the criminal one to be checked before purchase of a firearm. Sure, violate Privacy laws. ! So all returning veterans lose their right to buy a gun, anybody who sees a shrink loses it, and a doctor gets to remove your right to own a gun without due process.

 

[William Dykstra]

I think some of the features that were banned in the 90s AWB were a bayonet lug and a heat shield. Obviously the collapsible stock and the pistol grip. But, if the anti-gun politicians look carefully enough, they'll realize a Mauser K98k, has a bayonet lug, so does a Lee Enfield. and a Springfield 1903, or like all other Milsurps out there. Then they'll try to call the handguard on them a heat shield, so they'll find an excuse to call old milsurps "assault weapon".

Worse yet, the Enfield series, and the Schmidt-Rubin series of rifles have a detatchable box magazine, so there's another reason to call milsurps "assault weapons". Their agenda is total disarmament, even if the only legal gun in the U.S. is a single shot rimfire, they'll still try to ban it.

 

[Jinx0760]

Ruger Ranch carbine in .223 is a great choice!

 

[RussellC]

Which is why I put the words in quotes.

I know what you mean no biggie, obviously you know what I mean...its all good.

Russellc

 

[Zoogster]

I recall just weight alone could make a handgun an assault weapon. Just had to be too heavy.
Likewise in CA a rifle just being too short makes it an assault weapon.

Gun laws are meant to be a web that bans everything over time and gets tweaked and adjusted.

Too heavy handguns, banned, too small handguns are too concealable, too inexpensive popular with the poor saturday night specials and more widely used in crime, etc etc
Can't be too big, can't be too small, cant be too cheap, and then eventually even what is left is still killing people and has to go too.


The primary benefit of firearms based on a design used by the military or widely by the police is they have been fielded widely and improved when aspects of the design were found not durable enough.
So the firearms that work the longest with the least downtime are such firearms. It has to be handed to a 20 year old that drops it, sits on it, bangs it around, gets it dirty, and poorly maintains it, while continuing to run, after being stored and mistreated in an armory for years, and then have minor repairs done on it before going to the next 20 year old.

The scary grips that come off at right angles are because modern firearms made in the last 50+ years better fit the human form, which when you put your arm straight out has your hand at a right angle, not a twisted distorted angle. This means the most comfortable grip suited to the human form is the pistol grip.
But the gun banners trying to differentiate modern firearms from ancient ones noticed this was a trait frequently seen in the more modern firearms they disliked the most, and it became one of the evil features. It being an evil feature I would venture is a big part of why some other traditional firearms kept or were manufactured without a pistol grip instead of modernizing to that form.