Non 1911 Grip Technique

[Plan2Live]

Most of my pistol shooting experience has been on either my 1980’s vintage S&W 459 or 90’s era Browning High Power. I’ve noticed that most modern framed semi-auto’s have the front of the trigger guard squared off and in many cases include grooving that appears to be designed as a grip area for the weak hand forefinger. Is this the case? If so, is there a non-1911 grip technique that includes wrapping the weak hand forefinger around the front of the trigger guard? When I have tried gripping this way it feels like it throws the balance off. Comments?

 

[docnyt]

Don't change your grip. Many of the trigger guard changes you noted are for accommodating a rail mounted light or laser.

 

[Sam1911]

There was a period of time (back in the '70s - '80s, mostly) when a few folks through it might be nice to put the trigger finger of their support hand out in front of the trigger guard.

For reasons that seem obvious to most of us now (and as you've determined on your own) that isn't a very good idea.

Something like 70% of your grip strength on the gun should be coming from your support hand. That hand should be wrapped firmly around your firing hand, with the index finger of the support hand UNDER the trigger guard, gripping the top of the middle finger of your firing hand.

Unfortunately, many manufacturers jumped on the bandwagon of putting those finger-groove, squared-off trigger guards on their guns and they become somewhat of a "needful thing." The new shooter and the less experienced see that landing pad and assume "well, that must be where my other trigger finger goes." The fact that it is there draws people to use it ... which is a shame.

 

[MrCleanOK]

It's true, the "front of the trigger guard, finger-goes-here spot" is completely worthless. I once inquired with the Springfield Armory custom shop about removing it from and XD, and smoothing out the trigger guard but was told they couldn't do it without leaving a bunch of tool marks. I seriously contemplated it, as I was thinking about stippling and otherwise cosmetically butchering the pistol anyway, but decided not to go through with it. So there it sits, ugly and without purpose.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I’ve noticed that most modern framed semi-auto’s have the front of the trigger guard squared off and in many cases include grooving that appears to be designed as a grip area for the weak hand forefinger. Is this the case?

Yep.

If so, is there a non-1911 grip technique that includes wrapping the weak hand forefinger around the front of the trigger guard?

It's an old technique, like grabbing the wrist of the strong hand with the weak hand, or "teacupping" -- holding the weak hand flat and resting the strong hand on the palm of the weak hand.

When I have tried gripping this way it feels like it throws the balance off.

That's why nobody uses it any more.

 

[David E]

That's why nobody uses it any more.

Well, no one good....

But there are plenty of unskilled shooters using these techniques saying how it "works" for them. Then they go on to say how 9mms can be shot faster.

 

[Racinready300ex]

Personally I wish they put something on the bottom of the trigger gaurd for my finger to dig into a bit. Probably wouldn't really help me much though.

The biggest thing I've had trouble with (switching from 1911 to XDM) is I like putting my thumb on top of the saftey. And now I tend to hit the slide release with my thumb. Causeing either the gun to not stay open on the last shot, or it to lock open with rounds still in the chamber. I'm much better about it know, but every now and then my thumb does it's own thing and it happens again.

 

[Sam1911]

but every now and then my thumb does it's own thing and it happens again.

Yes, that is quite a pain. The only thing that changes about my grip from 1911s to xDs to wheelguns is that I have to remember to lock down the thumbs to keep off the slide stops.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

But there are plenty of unskilled shooters using these techniques saying how it "works" for them.

And for them, it does -- that is, the hammer falls and a bullet comes out the muzzle.

 

[Iramo94]

But there are plenty of unskilled shooters using these techniques saying how it "works" for them.

David, don't underestimate the power of a well-placed placebo. For example, I shoot much better when my support thumb is covering my strong thumb, making a little fist kind of thing (as opposed to the standard, thumbs parallel). Obviously, it is "wrong" according to modern shooting beliefs and techniques, but it helps me all the same.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

David, don't underestimate the power of a well-placed placebo. For example, I shoot much better when my support thumb is covering my strong thumb, making a little fist kind of thing (as opposed to the standard, thumbs parallel). Obviously, it is "wrong" according to modern shooting beliefs and techniques, but it helps me all the same.

Actually, you're not wrong -- "thumbs forward" is a speed shooting technique. For other applications, the grip you use is better.

 

[David E]

There are dynamics you can do within a good grip that you can tweak to suit you better. But you can tweak all you want with a bad grip and it won't help.

You can get by with bad or poorly executed technique if all you're doing is slowfire, or using sub-calibers.

In slowfire, it doesn't matter if your hands separate if your next shot is 10+ seconds away.

But if you want your next shot to be on target in a 1/2 second or less shooting a 9mm on up, then it matters a lot.

 

[Plan2Live]

Quote - I shoot much better when my support thumb is covering my strong thumb, making a little fist kind of thing (as opposed to the standard, thumbs parallel).

That sounds like the grip I have evolved into for my XDm Compact.

Qoute - But if you want your next shot to be on target in a 1/2 second or less shooting a 9mm on up, then it matters a lot.
__________________
Well this is mostly a defense weapon so yeah, quick follow up is almost as important as accuracy.

PS - I appear to be having trouble perfecting that partial quote technique too!
Thanks for the responses. Now I know to leave that false landing pad alone and get back to perfecting my regular grip.

 

[Plan2Live]

Wouldn't you know it. While at the range yesterday I had two range masters tell me I needed to shift my grip and use the finger rest on the outside front of the trigger guard, telling me I could get back on target faster. After much urging, I tried it again so they would stop bugging me and again, it just doesn't do anyting for me. In fact, I shoot much worse that way.

I am menitoning this just to confirm there are many out there still promoting this technique. :banghead:

 

[Sam1911]

Sometimes what you are told says something about the person doing the telling.



It is never a bad idea to observe what those at the forefront of technique are doing. Observe competitive shooters. Learn from them when you have the opportunity. (If there's any way, shoot with them ... that's the best way to learn from them.)

And watch what the guys on the cutting edge of instruction are teaching.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363#

Watch the whole thing, of course -- probably multiple times -- but the answer to this question starts at about 1:15.

Enjoy!

 

[Ankeny]

Well, no one good....

I don't know of any "good" shooters who actively teach placing the support hand index finger on the front of the trigger guard. However, there are some very good IPSC shooters who use that technique, including the current world champion.

 

[Red Cent]

I shot IPSC in that time window. Was taught thay way. Modified Weaver, bunch of isometric, finger in front of thr guard. Was taught that the forefinger helped the iso and controlled recoil some. Did pretty good in the local game. Novice to A.Then life stepped in. Bummer.

 

[Al Thompson]

the range yesterday I had two range masters

Holy cow. The finger on the trigger guard was state of the art in 1985.

I can just imagine which range that was - I've heard similar reports as I too live in the area.

Check your PMs.