Non-believers of PCP air rifles

[Eb1]

A neighbor's friend told me today there was no way I could hit a 6.5" tall bird at 65 yards today. He mentioned he owned a .22 caliber, also. He bought it from Wal-Mart.
I mentioned to him that this rifle didn't come from there, and the price difference was about 4x more than he paid. He said, "for what". It is still just a pellet gun.

Then I made the shot off hand. The JSB Diablo Heavy hit the bird, and sound like someone chopping wood. Needless to say he made a comment, and retracted his comparison of his rifle and mine.

The hold was 1 and 2 tenths mil-dots @ 65 yards for a direct neck hit. Right where I was aiming.

The wife went to Cabela's to buy me a present. Said they had .22 LR bricks for $85. I asked her to just buy me 2x500 counts of JSB Diablo Heavies. Which cost her $24, and with this rifle I don't see that I am loosing out. Great accruacy to 80 yards. Good enough for squirrel, rabbit, crow, and racoon at a much cheaper cost than the old standby .22 LR. Never thought I'd see the day that I'd rather shoot my air rifle than my Marlin Model 60, but I think it has come. After all shot placement is what counts.

 

[ChaoSS]

85 bucks for a brick of .22s?? What were they, lead free? Haven't seen prices that high even in the overpriced LGSs lately.

 

[Eb1]

Solid 40 grain is what she said. I didn't even ask the brand. This was NE AR Cabelas.
Instead I received 1000 pellets, and an extra 500 JSB 18 grain Heavy Exact Diablos for my PCP Air Rifle which is good to 80 yards. Shoot about an 1" or just over. From 50 to 70 is the long range sweet spot, and then anything in between is basically toast if you decide to drop the hammer on it.
I couldn't be happier with my purchase of this Air Rifle. As accurate if not more so than a lot of rifles I have shot, and some I have in my cabinet.

 

[GLOOB]

Yeah, $85.00 for 500 22LR is outrageous. But I'm not exactly thrilled at the price of those pellets, either. It was only a few years ago when you could buy 550 rounds of 22LR for $18.00. 500 pellets for $12.00 is pretty darn high, if you ask me.

 

[SlayerOfBunnies]

It was probably a brick of Norma or some other high end .22lr that was already expensive before the panic.

 

[jcwit]

Yeah, $85.00 for 500 22LR is outrageous. But I'm not exactly thrilled at the price of those pellets, either. It was only a few years ago when you could buy 550 rounds of 22LR for $18.00. 500 pellets for $12.00 is pretty darn high, if you ask me.

Quality Match ammo costs bucks

http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=ItemDetailOptions&item=420162

This comes to $167.5 a brick

Quality Match pellets cost bucks

http://www.champchoice.com/store/main.aspx?p=ItemDetailOptions&item=2315012

I normally shoot pellets in the price range of $15.00 a tin of 500. Altho the Crosman wadcutters in .177 have just about changed my thoughts regarding costs/value/ & accuracy.

 

[Mauser lover]

What model/caliber is your pellet gun? (Not being antagonistic, just curious, I have liked pellet guns for years)

What do you mean, the Crosman pellets have just about changed your thoughts? Do you like the Crosman pellets or do you not like them?

Thanks.

 

[jcwit]

I like them, $5.99 for a tin of 500 and groups in my garage range smaller than a dime from a P17. They are a super value IMO.

 

[Crawfish1]

I shoot a lot of Crosman's. I like jcwit have access to both .177 and .22 for $5.99 a tin of 500. I typically buy 10,000 at a time and have been stocking up in anticipation of market price increase. 1.2 cents a piece is a good value for me especially for .22 .

 

[fpgt72]

If you get a chance try the brown box crosman pellets....I put them up to any pellet.

I know what you say about the pcp....they are easy to shoot....my Mrod will hit shot gun shells at 50 yards no trouble at all.

 

[Eb1]

The Crosman 14.3 Ultra-Magnums are a good trade off for money and accuracy compared to the 18.1 grain JSB pellets, but for $3-$5 I'll take the JSB over the Crosman just because they are more accurate past 50 yards. I give the Crosman out to 40 yards for a good hunting pellet, but when you want to go out to 70-80 yards the JSB pellet is the go to pellet for me.

 

[plexreticle]

Eb1, what air rifle do you have?

 

[Crawfish1]

I think he is shooting a Discovery. I find some of my guns shoot Crosman heavies better than JSB heavies @ 100 yards. Which for me is a good thing because they are less than half the cost.

Brown box pellets are the best Crosman make because they are cast out of brand new dies. Pellets in the tins are from worn brown box dies but for most purpose I use including 100 yard shooting they are good enough.

 

[Eb1]

Yes, it is Crosman/Benjamin Discovery. I am not ashamed that it isn't a Marauder. lol

The air rifle is superb for my needs right now. With .22 LR being unavailable or to expensive. This air rifle will fill in just fine for the big fox squirrels. I have .22 LR ammo, but I am using it to let my daughter hunt with as she has a Thompson Center Hot Shot with the little Hot Shot scope. It weighs about 3 lbs, and she is 10 yrs old. It is easy for her to carry and shoot well do to the light weight, and is a safer rifle being a single shot. Right now she has it sighted in at 50 yards using standard velocity 40 grain CCI, and those are some squirrel busters.

My Discovery has taken the place of my Marlin Model 60 for my tree rat rifle. Old Scuba tanks make for great fills at the truck, but the 12 cubic ft carbon fiber buddy bottles let you refill up to about 30 times while getting 18 shots with a spread of 8 fps. A double Discovery it will become one they are available.

It has some add-ons. A TKO 5" muzzle brake, additional barrel band, some trigger adjustmets, a really nice (has been for me) Tech Force illuminated reticle [green of red] Mil-Dot scope. I really never turn the illumination on. The clicks are right on, and I have printed a dope chart from hawke optics' application called "Chairgun Pro". That app works great.

 

[Eb1]

New longest kill shot happened 6-11-15. The yardage was confirmed with a range finder to be 93 yards.
It was a head shot on a Starling. I had just switched from the JSB Exact Heavy to a tin of Crosman Premier Ultra Magnums. I took the time to shoot two full tubes from 2000 PSI to 900 PSI to get an average of 890 fps from my Discovery. I used Chairgun from Hawke to get my Mil-Dot holds. This software is available from Hawke's website: http://www.hawkeoptics.com/chairgun.html

I had my neighbor as a witness. We both were in disbelief although I know I am a decent shot, and I can hit golf tees with my Marlin Model 60 at 100 yards. This was probably the most monumental shot of my life due to the equipment used. $259 PCP rifle, $100 Mil-Dot Chinese scope, basic rings, $50 muzzle brake, $9 per 500 count tin of pellets, and $180 hand pump. The rest was me, and the several hundred shots I have taken with this rifle.

It would have been nice to have had a video, but you have to take my word for it.

I'd like to clear up the title of this thread as well. The title was geared toward a few of my buddies who thought me paying the money I did (the cost of the rifle) from selling a .30-30 Marlin to buy the air rifle. They thought selling the .30-30 for a pellet gun was ridiculous. But who is laughing now? It wasn't meant to be divider between air rifle owners. I apologize if it was taken that way by anyone.

So yeah. Ninety-three yard head shot on a 6" to 8" bird is possible. I have went back today to the JSB 18 grain pellets. because I get a little less wobble it seems, and I am contributing that to the length of the pellets. The 14.3 pellets are accurate. I did make that shot with them, but my rifle shoots them way to fast in the early shots after a new fill, and I might get a flyer every 4 shots or so. I really don't have that problem with the JSB 18 grain pellets. I'll keep shooting the Crosmans when I know I run out of the JSB, or just want to do target shooting. I have a couple new target setups that hold clays, ballons, cans, and paper targets. I also have a couple of new spinners.

Thanks for your time.

 

[cslinger]

What do you charge the rifle with? Pump, compressor, SCUBA tank, carbon fiber 4500psi tank, unlimited amounts of slave labor?

If using a pump what kind of effort? What brand?

If a tank where do you fill, how much per fill?

I have waiverd back and forth with picking up a PCP. Not for hunting or power so something high shot count, low power. I am still trying to decide if the pump and or tanks are worth the extra hassle and if the guns/actions are durable over the long haul.

Thanks, shoot safe,
Chris.

 

[Eb1]

My kids pump it up with a Benjamin pump. The cheapest way is to get a used 3000 PSI scuba tank, and then fill it with a pump. then when you get down to your minimum just hit is with a scuba tank shot. I'd get like 220 fills if I were to do that. That is because you don't the 75 cubic feet of the tank holds a lot of air, and the Discovery being 2000 PSI you can refile it very quick and many times. A 4500 12 Cubic Feet would be great for the woods after you filled it with the hand pump.
Also, my rifle shoots best from 1800 to 900 pretty much.

Scuba tanks around here are $5 per fill.

If you want a Discovery I have read they bumped up the power in the last couple years which really hurt the shot count, but don't worry there are fixes for that the rifle can be tuned to shoot down into the 650 fps range which would give you a lot more shots than you get with 796 fps average I am getting with the 18 grain pellets.
Another thing is if you want to just shoot for long shot strings and/or target shooting with some hunting you can get a good refurbished Discovery from this guy: http://discosrus.net/ . He sells the .177 with all new guts for like $130. I think he tunes them also. Maybe he could set it up the way you'd like.
He is a very nice guy to speak to over the phone, and will give his time to listen to what you want.

All I can tell you about a PCP is that since I was 7 years old, and I am now 40 I wanted an air rifle that would put the pellet into the same hole at least 10 times without pumping it up. I now have that, and to be honest I could never get a break barrel to shoot good, but I could get my old Crosman 2200 and Daisy 882 to shoot good to 35 yards, so I knew PCP is what I wanted. to me air is always going to be more accurate, but I don't want to sound like I am downing anyone's choice. That is just my experience and opinion based on that experience. I could see myself taking a chance on a $400 spring rifle when my $80 pump air guns have proven themselves, and the $120 spring guns had failed me every time.

 

[GLOOB]

I have two springers, and they/I were both terrible out of the box. But that improves with some time, and in my cases some tinkering. There's one place a break barrel can't be beat, and that's for sending lots of pellets downrange from a comfortable chair, without stopping. And the recoil is good practice for a flinch, as well as good fun.

I have solved my last 3 rodent problems with a Crosman MPP of one variety or another, and all 3 times with only 3-4 pumps, with misses and overpenetration being a concern.

I don't have a PCP, yet, but it wouldn't replace my other airguns. Which is too bad, because with the tank and hoses and fittings and whatnot, it would be nice if it could. If a PCP could easily adjust down to the 5 foot lbs range, or even lower, it would be great. Even the ones that are adjustable seem to shoot at least 12-15 foot lbs on low. I have 22LR rounds that can substitute for PCP level of power, which at the point of having 40 foot lbs, why not just go all the way? It seems like the PCP rifle is the ideal weapon for one thing - shooting birds at long range, which I currently have no interest in. Did enough of that when I was 10. But I don't see PCP's being able to substitute for a low powered airgun. There's so much fun to be had that a PCP is just too powerful for.

A 22 wadcutter with 2 pumps out of a 1322, for instance, is my weapon of choice for carpenter bees. The flying ashtray cuts 'em in half. The bee corpses are piling up around the edges of my wood fence.

 

[jcwit]

I have 2 Beeman springers that will only part from me when I pass. Both were purchased back in the mid 1980's, one is the Beeman R7 the other is the R1.

The R1 is a fantastic air rifle which I would put up against any other sporter regardless of type.

I also own a couple of the Chinese rifles, a side lever & a barrel cocker, my wife use to sell them at the Shipshewana Flea Market 30 some years ago. Neither of these are in the same class as the Beeman's but neither of them cost in the hundreds of dollars even back when I bought them.

Also in my collection is an older Benjamin .22 pump # 312 I got back when I was a kid 60 years ago. Still holds it's air charge as good as the day I bought way back when, yup, back then a kid could buy them all by themselves. It fit right in the gun cabinet with my .22 pump rimfire. The pellet gun was much cheaper to shoot around the farm & grain mill, killing sparrows & pigeons.

There is my collection of air rifles, such as it is.

 

[ChaoSS]

I have two springers, and they/I were both terrible out of the box. But that improves with some time, and in my cases some tinkering. There's one place a break barrel can't be beat, and that's for sending lots of pellets downrange from a comfortable chair, without stopping. And the recoil is good practice for a flinch, as well as good fun.

I have solved my last 3 rodent problems with a Crosman MPP of one variety or another, and all 3 times with only 3-4 pumps, with misses and overpenetration being a concern.

I don't have a PCP, yet, but it wouldn't replace my other airguns. Which is too bad, because with the tank and hoses and fittings and whatnot, it would be nice if it could. If a PCP could easily adjust down to the 5 foot lbs range, or even lower, it would be great. Even the ones that are adjustable seem to shoot at least 12-15 foot lbs on low. I have 22LR rounds that can substitute for PCP level of power, which at the point of having 40 foot lbs, why not just go all the way? It seems like the PCP rifle is the ideal weapon for one thing - shooting birds at long range, which I currently have no interest in. Did enough of that when I was 10. But I don't see PCP's being able to substitute for a low powered airgun. There's so much fun to be had that a PCP is just too powerful for.

A 22 wadcutter with 2 pumps out of a 1322, for instance, is my weapon of choice for carpenter bees. The flying ashtray cuts 'em in half. The bee corpses are piling up around the edges of my wood fence.

Not sure how much money you want to put into a gun, now, and doing this may be beyond what you wish to spend.

However, an Airforce talon will give you more power than anything you'll get out of a springer. Throw on a micrometer tank and you can get down to 5 fpe. (which is still probably higher than you are getting with 2-3 pumps, but it does go down where you said) Throw on a Co2 setup, and you can fully expect hundreds, I've read over 600 shots per CO2 fill.

 

[Eb1]

Also, as far as sitting in a chair without stopping. You could connect to a 4500 PSI 75 cubic foot tank, and shoot from your chair until your trigger finger fell off. You can also adjust the hammer spring and tension on the spring to adjust for fpe. Shoot a .177 with heavy pellets and you'll slow that little booger down. Find how to make the necessary changes to the rifle for less valve opening, and speed up the closer, and less air. You could easily do what you are doing now with a PCP.

 

[GLOOB]

Some like to shoot machine guns. Some like slingshots. And some like pcps. There's something for everyone.

 

[Rattus58]

A neighbor's friend told me today there was no way I could hit a 6.5" tall bird at 65 yards today. He mentioned he owned a .22 caliber, also. He bought it from Wal-Mart.
I mentioned to him that this rifle didn't come from there, and the price difference was about 4x more than he paid. He said, "for what". It is still just a pellet gun.

Then I made the shot off hand. The JSB Diablo Heavy hit the bird, and sound like someone chopping wood. Needless to say he made a comment, and retracted his comparison of his rifle and mine.

The hold was 1 and 2 tenths mil-dots @ 65 yards for a direct neck hit. Right where I was aiming.

The wife went to Cabela's to buy me a present. Said they had .22 LR bricks for $85. I asked her to just buy me 2x500 counts of JSB Diablo Heavies. Which cost her $24, and with this rifle I don't see that I am loosing out. Great accruacy to 80 yards. Good enough for squirrel, rabbit, crow, and racoon at a much cheaper cost than the old standby .22 LR. Never thought I'd see the day that I'd rather shoot my air rifle than my Marlin Model 60, but I think it has come. After all shot placement is what counts.

They are a lot different today... I'm trying to get them legal here in Hawaii for Hunting all game.

 

[Rattus58]

Not sure how much money you want to put into a gun, now, and doing this may be beyond what you wish to spend.

However, an Airforce talon will give you more power than anything you'll get out of a springer. Throw on a micrometer tank and you can get down to 5 fpe. (which is still probably higher than you are getting with 2-3 pumps, but it does go down where you said) Throw on a Co2 setup, and you can fully expect hundreds, I've read over 600 shots per CO2 fill.

Air Force.... now that .... I'm looking into a the 45 texan right now...

 

[Mousegun]

I have shot nickel and dime sized groups at 50 yards with my Air Arms TX200 springer.

If you can shoot a spring rifle you can shoot just about anything. Even the very high quality TX likes the same hold when stretched out to that distance.

Few people would consider spending what I did for my left hand TX 200, but most of them don't usually realize how much a spring air rifle can improve your overall rifle shooting no matter what the gun.