Non Historical Guns, why not more of them?

[Stormson]

Id like to see a PRODUCTION, modern double action that is muzzle loaded and capable of using both BP and smokeless, other then the mini mag... Full size, maybe an N frame or similar with real modern steel and maybe using 209s.

That radical enough LOL?

Seriously though, it would make the already awesome versatility even MORE versatile. And IIRC there was a company doing exactly that at one time? But they where outrageously priced and not really production level... Just mods of existing centerfire DAs.

No doubt, sadly, something like that would bring down WAY too much heat from our over bloated overlords in the ATF though...

 

[Bigdog57]

Color me a "Stupid American". I own FOUR of the non-correct Pietta 1851 Navies in .44cal. And my Pietta 1851 Navy Sheriff Model is in .36cal, but nickeled with gold cylinder, trigger and hammer. Not very 'original'. But I like them just fine.

 

[perldog007]

Id like to see a PRODUCTION, modern double action that is muzzle loaded and capable of using both BP and smokeless, other then the mini mag... Full size, maybe an N frame or similar with real modern steel and maybe using 209s.

That radical enough LOL?

Seriously though, it would make the already awesome versatility even MORE versatile. And IIRC there was a company doing exactly that at one time? But they where outrageously priced and not really production level... Just mods of existing centerfire DAs.

No doubt, sadly, something like that would bring down WAY too much heat from our over bloated overlords in the ATF though...

I would truly love a BP conversion cylinder for my 25-5. The BP fouling would only mask some of the dings the poor girl took paying the rent. As far as ATF goes, when I got into these fine revolvers I actually intended to buy a fixed cartridge gun complete with paperwork and all the other things we do the way we do the things we do...

I would have no problem ( practically, not philosophically ) doing the dance to get a cartridge conversion built the way I wanted it. Only a temporary lack of largess hinders me...

 

[Crawdad1]

The states are bad enough with their idiotic laws surrounding cartridge handguns. I don't want the federal government anywhere near black powder. Its bad enough in one state your legal and another you're a felon. If you want that fancy stuff stick to the cartridge guns but keep the black powder revolvers primitive. A '58 Remington with a simple dovetail sight will do anything you ask of it just the way it is. You'll find out.

 

[perldog007]

The states are bad enough with their idiotic laws surrounding cartridge handguns. I don't want the federal government anywhere near black powder. Its bad enough in one state your legal and another you're a felon. If you want that fancy stuff stick to the cartridge guns but keep the black powder revolvers primitive. A '58 Remington with a simple dovetail sight will do anything you ask of it just the way it is. You'll find out.

That is a valid point. I've been hassled so much I have a pretty thick skin. Was one of those 'Special" Police in Washington D.C., carry permit, licensed armed guard and so on...

Where I live in Delaware BP won't keep you out of any legal trouble on state charges. Not quite New Jersey awful but not far off. I'm headed South methinks....

Here I can technically open carry but on those rare occasions that I do I'm prepared to be stopped.......

 

[Crawdad1]

I was just reading the Michigan laws on handguns, MICHIGAN!!! You get north of Detroit and there's what, all of six people living up there.

I couldn't believe it!!! MICHIGAN,



What the hell happened.

 

[jrdolall]

Michigan is one of those states that is dominated politically by a small portion of the land mass, Detroit and surrounding areas. If you spend any time in western MI the people are extremely conservative hunters and outdoorsmen. Much like NY, IL, CO and CA where the populations of the major cities outweighs the rest of the state.
I happen to love upstate NY but the people all live in NYC so the good folks in Syracuse get screwed. The same for Chicago and Denver.

 

[Crawdad1]

Nothing about the good people of Michigan but I'll be damned if I ever have to register a primitive black powder gun.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

As a rule Ohio is pretty good on gun laws but every once in a while you run into an uniformed hardhead.

The pawn shop where I bought my "rescue" Spiller and Burr made me fill out "THE FORM" because they had it on their books as a firearm.

When I told them they could just sign it out as a mistake and back in again as a non-firearm, they gave me a dirty look and said "this is the way WE do it!"

Grumble, Grumble!!!

They did give me this nifty free cable padlock though.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

Sorry - That's uni-N-formed, not uniformed!!!

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Nothing about the good people of Michigan but I'll be damned if I ever have to register a primitive black powder gun.

Here in Michigan we seem to be on the right track at least heading in the right direction. Haven't had to register a primitive firearm since 2003. Im almost embarased to say that we still consider air guns with rifled barrels ( yup I'm talking about your typical pellet gun) to be firearms but the state government is in the process of likely changing that soon as well.

 

[TheSquire]

The laws in the UK regarding hand guns are, I'm sure known about in the US, but the only pistols we can use (other than weird long barreled things) are deemed to be 'muzzle-loaders' even if they use nitro powder rather than BP. Consequently, there are modern pistols with new cylinders that are now 'muzzle loaders' even if in the rest of the world the same pistol uses a cartridge. That would include single action Colts, Remingtons, Rodgers & Spencer and others.

Scotland now has air gun licencing (even sub 12ft/lb rifles).

 

[zimmerstutzen]

make a heavy frame top strap gun in 525 caliber with a cylinder large enough for about 70 grains of powder. Use .530 balls to load.

 

[rodwha]

Now that would be one monster Zimmerstutzen!

 

[Stormson]

The states are bad enough with their idiotic laws surrounding cartridge handguns. I don't want the federal government anywhere near black powder. Its bad enough in one state your legal and another you're a felon. If you want that fancy stuff stick to the cartridge guns but keep the black powder revolvers primitive. A '58 Remington with a simple dovetail sight will do anything you ask of it just the way it is. You'll find out.

Well, thats what I mean... While I would LOVE the pistol I describe, in the end it would only cause more unneeded and unreasonable scrutiny, and of course, regulations for us.

Now.. as for your statement concerning the dovetail sited '58, I full heartedly agree.... er.. To a POINT. For instance, it isnt something I would want to have to use in grizzly habitat, or even be forced to go up against a black bear with. Anything up to deer and even man if needs be, yes... But nothing more.

Now.. Take that same revolver, build it with modern steels capable of +P smokeless loads, rebate some jacketed hollow points for ease of loading, and toss in a reliable 209 or pistol primer ignition system? Hell yeah Id carry it in black bear country (where i live now) and I would even feel at least SOMEWHAT calmer even in ol' grizz's backyard...

Of course I could load that same gun with 20grs of Holy Black and tap rabbits all day long around the garden... MAN I'd love a gun like that!

Sigh... Sadly, there are no time machines around to take us back to a time when Americans where truly free...Free to have such tools as we needed, wished and desired without being hassled for it... Or to free innovate such a design (and profit from same!) without being hassled, taxed and regulated right out of business.

 

[Crawdad1]

I guess I got a little too fire up reading about Michigan's handgun laws. Still, I don't want the government sniffing around black powder more than they already have.

 

[ExMachina]

I would be willing to bet that there were few 1873's that were converted back to C&B

.

 

[perldog007]

Well, thats what I mean... While I would LOVE the pistol I describe, in the end it would only cause more unneeded and unreasonable scrutiny, and of course, regulations for us.

Now.. as for your statement concerning the dovetail sited '58, I full heartedly agree.... er.. To a POINT. For instance, it isnt something I would want to have to use in grizzly habitat, or even be forced to go up against a black bear with. Anything up to deer and even man if needs be, yes... But nothing more.

Now.. Take that same revolver, build it with modern steels capable of +P smokeless loads, rebate some jacketed hollow points for ease of loading, and toss in a reliable 209 or pistol primer ignition system? Hell yeah Id carry it in black bear country (where i live now) and I would even feel at least SOMEWHAT calmer even in ol' grizz's backyard...

Of course I could load that same gun with 20grs of Holy Black and tap rabbits all day long around the garden... MAN I'd love a gun like that!

Sigh... Sadly, there are no time machines around to take us back to a time when Americans where truly free...Free to have such tools as we needed, wished and desired without being hassled for it... Or to free innovate such a design (and profit from same!) without being hassled, taxed and regulated right out of business.

We are used to black bear country lightly armed, as in a recurve bow or a .22 and harsh language. The only confrontation I ever witnessed between a human and a black bear was my Uncle Les defending my self and siblings, his wife and chillun's against a garbage bear on the skyline drive who wasn't waiting for a handout.
Uncle Les was empty handed but cheated by throwing his hat at the bruin as he charged, by the time he kicked it the medium sized ( 160 lb. ish) bear had turned tail and got the proverbial boot in the rear.. I ain't gonna plan on doing that, Uncle Les is a real mountain man and an oddity in that he's an engineer and bookworm. Nobody would peg him for a bear fighter.
The only one I was involved in was a slightly larger bear who decided against charging the man who made the loud noise and dirtspout up it's nose with the Ruger Security Six snubby.... No bruins were killed or harmed in either incident.
I frequently carried a .44 special or .45 Colt or .45 ACP or even a .22 sidearm in the mountains. The thing about bears is to avoid them back home, hunting is closed some counties and shooting one out of season can bring trouble. I would be okay with the BP 1858 myself, EVERYBODY'S MILEAGE SHOULD VARY on something that personal.
Having said all that I would love to own a modern stronger 209 ignition revolver and would do the colonoscopy of modern FFL ownership if need be.
Honestly the 'lack of FFL paperwork' isn't much of a selling point to me. Not like I'm not on all 'the lists' anyway..... But I get where Crawdad1 is coming from. It is sort of nice to buy a gun and not have to give up your privacy.

 

[expat_alaska]

Michigan is one of those states that is dominated politically by a small portion of the land mass, Detroit and surrounding areas. If you spend any time in western MI the people are extremely conservative hunters and outdoorsmen. Much like NY, IL, CO and CA where the populations of the major cities outweighs the rest of the state.
I happen to love upstate NY but the people all live in NYC so the good folks in Syracuse get screwed. The same for Chicago and Denver.

You can add WA State/Pugetropolis and Oregon/Portlandia to that list.

 

[jaxenro]

How about rebating the Walker frame and belting the cylinder to take a larger ball similar to the 1860/1862 idea? If the 1860 goes from 36 to 44 and the 1862 from 31 to 36 then the Walker should do a 52 or even a 54

 

[perldog007]

How about rebating the Walker frame and belting the cylinder to take a larger ball similar to the 1860/1862 idea? If the 1860 goes from 36 to 44 and the 1862 from 31 to 36 then the Walker should do a 52 or even a 54

If the evil fixed cartridge boyz get a fitty revolver then we beautiful and well intentioned C&B do-gooder types should have one as well !

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Saw this one on Gunbroker, and thought it kind of fit into this thread.
It's a brass frame buntline with a variable power scope.
Not all that unique, but still a little over the top.

It's Auction # 475543784 if you want to see more pics or are curious

 

[perldog007]

Saw this one on Gunbroker, and thought it kind of fit into this thread.
It's a brass frame buntline with a variable power scope.
Not all that unique, but still a little over the top.

It's Auction # 475543784 if you want to see more pics or are curious

That looks like somebody had some fun with it. I never got into scoped handguns but always wanted to try it. Those slab sides on the colt barrels look like a good place to staple a mount and this looks like a fairly graceful ( for a kitchen table gunsmith ) scope mount here. Very nice.