Non-Lead Options for Full Choke

[SavingNolanRyan]

I have an old 1960 Silver Snipe Beretta over under that has full choke on both barrels. Ammo in CA has been hard to come by and I grabbed some #6 birdshot in Steel Shot - (WinX) and some Federal #00 copper plated. I know I can shoot these in my Winchester M97 as it is straight pipe, but in the Silver Snipe what are my options as lead shot in CA is not avail. Also...I have many old boxes of Winchester Ammo that has "Staynless" on the boxes. Does that refer to the powder used, (not the shot??).

Thanks,
Mike

 

[steveus101]

For sure "Staynless" does not refer to the shot, I believe it may refer to the primer. I also remember this on the Winchester boxes and advertising way back when I was a kid, will have to look at what old boxes I have around. Thanks for the memories.

 

[Mars5l]

My local clay range has started selling BioAmmo. TFB TV had a video about, recall it was non lead and all biodegradable and popular in Europe.

 

[tmd16556]

The Staynless refers to non-corrosive primers. Around the same era Remington called their primers Kleen-bore. The shot is going to still be normal lead in those.
Bismuth shot is probably the safest California safe bet. It’s not as harsh as the other non toxics. Others may know more on how those chokes handle steel. I know full chokes and waterfowl steel are usually a no-go, but I’m not sure if newer small pellet steel is any safer.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Fiocchi Tundra was a great non-tox, non-steel shotshell, but they're discontinued. Hevi-Shot Bismuth and Kent Bismuth Waterfowl are probably good alternatives. (Any Bismuth shot, really.) I've run a bit of Bismuth through my 1930s Winchesters with full and modified chokes.

Fair warning: it's very expensive. So much so that, if you're just wanting to hunt, it's cheaper to just buy a new shotgun that will run steel.

 

[hawg]

Unless your barrels are chrome lined steel shot in a full choke is a no go.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Unless your barrels are chrome lined steel shot in a full choke is a no go.

It's a no-go for pretty much all vintage guns. The steel in the barrel was designed for lead. I suspect guns made prior to the 1991 ban on lead shot are susceptible.

 

[12Bravo20]

Non toxic shot is definitely not cheap outside of steal shot. Midway USA has bismuth shot at $100 for 4 pounds. Ballistic Products has tungsten shot for $97 per 2 pounds, Heavy Shot $84 per 2 pounds and Bismuth $130 per 7 pounds.

 

[tmd16556]

As I recall, tungsten and Hevi-shot both wear barrels worse than steel does. Older guns are a lead or bismuth sort of thing. I’m not sure what you’re planning on shooting, so that makes a difference.

 

[.45Coltguy]

SNR, I have a '75 Rem Wingmaster 20ga with fixed Mod choke. I called Remington, when they were still solvent, and was told steel is fine in my WM, but, do not shoot 00 buck steel thru it.
They mentioned steel thru full is a no go. Hope you find the proper ammo within reason.

 

[tmd16556]

The big risk with steel in a full choke is pellets getting stuck in the choke since they don’t deform much. That’s where I’m unsure on whether small pellets are as bad about this as big #4 and larger birdshot. I wouldn’t risk an experiment with my gun or face. Maybe there is some better data out there. Older chokes are also sometimes swaged in. Steel can bulge those out, though I doubt your Beretta has that design.

 

[Lo-Profile]

Yeah, steel in a full choke is bad.
Might call Briley about possibly opening up the choke.

 

[SavingNolanRyan]

Well, I found an old ad for Beretta and the Silver Snipe shows it came with 28" and 26" barrels. The 28" came with Full choke and Mod and the 26" came with Imp Cyl and Mod. I found something else that the one star marks I thought were for chokes, might be for barrel proofing. I have to check the markings closer and see if I can decipher what chokes I really have....Will try to post a pic of the markings.

 

[SavingNolanRyan]

OK...the barrels have many markings - one is Chromium Molybdenum Alloy Steel. Another is P. Beretta-Gardone V.T.. Then on the sides I see 1,510, (weight of barrels at proof??) - 20.3 (chamber bore .799"?) 70 which would be chamber length for 2 3/4" shells? One barrel is marked 18.3 and 17.2 or .043" difference for Extra Full Choke?? The other is 18.3 and 17.3 or .039" difference and Full Choke?? Further back on the barrels each has one big 5 point star. On the very bottom seems to be a serial number....another in Roman Numerals XVI (manufacture date 1960??) another 8.55 and some other stuff I can't make out. Not sure the proper way to measure, but with the barrels removed they = 30" from end to end. I think a 2 3/4" shell measure ~ 2 1/4" - so if you measure from the end of the barrel to the front of the shell = ~28" barrel. If I have some of this right....it would appear from earlier posts...steel will be not be an option. I guess Bismuth I will look into.

Do these tight chokes make this a turkey shotgun? When would these tight patterns be most useful.

 

[tmd16556]

Some of those are pressure ratings from the proof. The only time I ever read Italian proof marks is on slow dove hunts on an early 2000s Benelli. You can also measure choke inside diameter to verify the sizes.

Some alloys from that era might handle steel if the chokes aren’t too tight. I suppose they all handle it safely with an open enough choke but pellets could abrade the barrel a bit if the wad isn’t t perfect and it’s a softer alloy.

 

[Bill M.]

Your chokes are very tight. Maybe they were going for IM and Full. Maybe Full and Full. Good choking for a trap gun. And that would fit with the 30" length. I think there were some European uses for tight chokes. Might be a nice gun for bunker trap. Both assuming lead shot. I have seen a forcing cone in an older gun (Browning Superposed) that was pretty badly damage by steel shot and had a score in the barrel. But only in one barrel for some reason. Maybe it was a rusted load? I think you risk damaging the gun if you shoot steel shot. Not much so if you lengthen the forcing cones and open the chokes. I do not know about relative barrel hardness in different eras. The steel shot is supposed to be soft enough and encased in plastic? It is probably a fairly light weight gun and with steel shot I bet it kicks a lot. If I had to shoot no tox shot for all shooting I would just get a gun for it. I like my SP1 with the Optima HP barrels. If you just hunt a little then maybe Bismouth.

 

[kalielkslayer]

I have 2 Browning B80s. The first one I bought in about 1981. It was a fixed Modified choke. It was my primary shotgun for 10 years, many of those years we could shoot lead at ducks, which it did a lot if.

The second gun I bought in about 1991, used. But that model was only available for about 5-6 years, discontinued in the mid/late 80s.

The newer gun had an alloy receiver and the original “invector” chokes, really short chokes.

The original fixed modifies chamber has had AT LEAST 200 Hevi-shot, 10,000 steel shells and 20,000 lead shells through it.

I bought aftermarket Carlson extended chokes for the “invector” choke barrel.

2 days ago I shot some patterns with both guns, and a couple different chokes in the “invector” choke gun.

I thought the fixed modified was worn out and was probably IC at best.

So I shot 1 1/4 oz #6 shot in 2 different loads, 1385 fps and 1440 fps.

The adjustable choke with “light modified” put 129 pellets in a 26” circle, average if 2 shots.

The adjustable choke with “improves modified” put 162 and 160 pellets in that 26” circle.

The fixed modified put 183 and 179 pellets in the same circle.

I haven’t noticed any reduced recoil in the longer chokes, but maybe I’m missing it.

I did learn that the difference in velocity didn’t really make a difference.

And I learned that my fixed modified shot a significantly tighter pattern than an improved modified on the other gun so apparently all that wear hasn’t opened that choke up.

I’m a Boss shotshell fan for bismuth. Bismuth has a reputation of being extremely brittle. If you push it too fast, urban myth has it that it crushes during setback and at the forcing cone?
Since I live in California, I have to shoot non-toxic on everything. I used 1 1/4 oz, #5, 2 3/4” Boss bismuth last year for California chukar, and waterfowl. The bismuth took Canadians, specks and ducks as well as my old 1 1/2 oz lead #4s did. I was impressed.

I hunt chukar primarily in Nevada so lead is my go to there.

I have a California vest and gun with the plug in strictly for California loaded only with bismuth. And a Nevada gun/ vest strictly for Nevada with the plug out and loaded with lead.

Unfortunately, Boss is mail order only and being a California resident, that’s a strict no-no. I would never recommend anyone to do a work around a law, regardless how ridiculous the law was. But IMHO it’s worth the $2 a shot it costs. Hence why I hunt Nevada more than I hunt California.