The_Armed_Therapist
Member
Just wondering what everyone has to say about them compared to the Springfields. Any looming issues with them that wouldn't be a problem from the Springfields? How does the accuracy compare?
Norinco M1A
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HavelockLEO
Member
They are GREAT starting points for very accurate M14 type rifles. The Norinco and Polytech M14SA's have forged receivers and operating rods and chrome lined barrels. The only problematic parts are the triggers, hammers and bolts. The bolts are supposedly the same hardness as USGI but dont have the internal hardness. Alot of shooters/end users routinely check the headspace of their Chi-Com 14s because of this, others dont, and still others just have the work done to fit a USGI bolt into their receiver.
I recommend them though, you get the whole rifle for the cost of an LRB receiver.
I recommend them though, you get the whole rifle for the cost of an LRB receiver.
An article was written when they first came in and the bolt in that rifle was soft, increased headspace in the short shooting test.
Since then everyone has been leery of the bolts.
The receiver is an excellent beginning for a match rifle. Not only is it forged, but the metal is better than 8620. I forget the alloy, might have been a 4000 series, but it is a good tough steel.
A gunsmith will have to remove material somewhere to get a GI bolt to fit. There are other differences. I don't know about the trigger mechanisms, operating rods, etc.
I have seen match M1'a built around these receivers and the rifles functioned fine and were excellent shooters. I believe the owners had replaced everything but the receiver with GI parts.
At the end of the conversion process the rifle was still worth less than a factory Springfield Armory rifle.
Since then everyone has been leery of the bolts.
The receiver is an excellent beginning for a match rifle. Not only is it forged, but the metal is better than 8620. I forget the alloy, might have been a 4000 series, but it is a good tough steel.
A gunsmith will have to remove material somewhere to get a GI bolt to fit. There are other differences. I don't know about the trigger mechanisms, operating rods, etc.
I have seen match M1'a built around these receivers and the rifles functioned fine and were excellent shooters. I believe the owners had replaced everything but the receiver with GI parts.
At the end of the conversion process the rifle was still worth less than a factory Springfield Armory rifle.
madcratebuilder
Member
When the Poly's and Norinco's cost around $500-600 they were a pretty good deal. You got a good forged receiver for a building block for a M14 clone. USGI parts kits were affordable and you could make a clone for about the same cost as the SAI M1A.
Today the price of the rifles and the parts kits has made it a very expensive project.
I've never bought in to the need of a 'forged' M14 receiver. These are semi auto clones and I don't see the need for a forging that the full auto M14 has.. SAI has proven the cast receivers get the job done. SAI has there own share of problems, nothing that can't be corrected easily.
Today the price of the rifles and the parts kits has made it a very expensive project.
I've never bought in to the need of a 'forged' M14 receiver. These are semi auto clones and I don't see the need for a forging that the full auto M14 has.. SAI has proven the cast receivers get the job done. SAI has there own share of problems, nothing that can't be corrected easily.
TexasPatriot.308
Member
I got a Springfield M1A standard loaded with walnut stock, wanting a scout squad verstion now too. Does Norinco or Polytech make this version?
If you are looking for a m1a check out the national matches at camp perry you will be able to get good advise from some pretty good gun smiths their. Also this is Mark Kovach Mid-County Firearms Incorporated
(419) 898-7879
he is in oak harbor oh he has put 2 m1A's together for me out of usgi parts on Springfield receivers that i picked up at the national matches he is very good.
(419) 898-7879
he is in oak harbor oh he has put 2 m1A's together for me out of usgi parts on Springfield receivers that i picked up at the national matches he is very good.
I personally wouldn't want a Chinese M14/M1A. Admittedly, in this case it really doesn't have much to do with whether the rifle is good or not. I'm not saying that I wouldn't own a Chinese gun or don't. I just wouldn't want a Chinese M14/M1A, not when I can buy a good one made in the USA. If the Chinese ever start churning out M1 Garands I won't want one of those either.
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14427H
Member
I have two , I'd buy a third. There were a lots of reports on problematic parts FROM PEOPLE THAT REPLACED PARTS. Most ended up admitting you MIGHT want to replace the bolt. Flash hider thread is metric (or somewhat off) but a replacment Phanthom from YHM threads right on (been there ...twice) A few other not quite spec parts. An Arms #18 scope mounts fits like a bank vault (love to read how to "shim" on springfields).
The latest "fix" on "soft parts" is people doing Melonite hardning.
The latest "fix" on "soft parts" is people doing Melonite hardning.
So what you are saying is you offer nothing to the conversation, but to say you don't want to own a Chinese made firearm?
You cannot buy a less expensive forged receiver in an M1A platform. If you get one...sent it to Warbird and have him do the USGI conversion if the "bolt issue" concerns you...you will get back an impressive M1A.
If I lived in Canada, I'd probably own 3-4 of the Norinco's due to price alone.
aubie515, Did you read my post? I never said I "didn't want to own a Chinese firearm." I have Chinese made rifles, AK's ,SKSs, ect. I just wouldn't want a Chinese M14/M1A. Certain items, guns included, can attain an iconic or symbolic status. I consider my M14/M1As to be somewhat iconic as well, despite the fact that they are of course “clones,” at least they are American clones of an American rifle. To me a Chinese M14 is akin to what a Chinese Harley Davidson or Corvette might be to someone else. I personally wouldn't want a Chinese made M14, especially while there are Americans out there making M14/M1A's that don't have bolt issues or metric threads, ect. I also don't want any Russian made "Winchesters" or Turkish made "Remingtons" so this isn't a Chinese "racial thing," it's an "American thing." Apparently others out there feel the same way or else Chinese M14's that have been re-built with USGI parts would be worth as much or more than a Springfield M1A but they're not. So, if you feel that my previous comments regarding Chinese M1A's "offer nothing to the conversation" maybe some will find "lack of re-sale value" compared to a Springfield more substantial.
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14427H
Member
"lack of resale value" ? New they were $300. Why are they $900+ now? Not sure what's what in a Corvette but you need to stay clear of the Chevy Equinox. The ENGINE is made in China.
I do think Chineese imports would have killed the American gun industry and I'm not for lifting the restrictions. But it is unfair to use (RETRACTED) "it's not American" to trash a well made we
"a"(thanks for the spell check)pon.
I do think Chineese imports would have killed the American gun industry and I'm not for lifting the restrictions. But it is unfair to use (RETRACTED) "it's not American" to trash a well made we
"a"(thanks for the spell check)pon.
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greyling22
Member
they're still only about 400-450 new in canada. they got banned from importation in '94 under the AWB and then norinco was rebanned under one of the Bushes for selling missiles for iran. or something along those lines. At least that is what I recall reading.
14427H If you're going to quote me then please quote me accurately. I never said "Chinese junk" anywhere in either of my posts. In fact, I said right from the start; "Admittedly, in this case it really doesn't have much to do with whether the rifle is good or not." Although, when you consider that; it's a common practice to regularly check the headspace on Chinese M14s because of soft bolts and many people who buy one do so just to tear it apart in order to build a decent rifle around the forged receiver (a feature that is arguably unnecessary anyway) and then discard most of the remaining rifle, then maybe your words aren't that inappropriate after all. This repute does not sound like that of an entirely "well made we[a]pon" to me. If you are happy with your Chinese M14 then good for you. However, regardless of the quality, I disagree that it is somehow "unfair" or illegitimate to consider a product's point of origin when making any purchase.
The_Armed_Therapist
Member
I support free trade with China (and Cuba, and Iran, etc.), so that's hardly a consideration for me. I couldn't care less if U.S. gun manufacturers would be hurt by that. It's called competition. Consumer money will go towards what they want and I have no problems with that.
I wish they were as cheap here as they are in Canada!!!
I wish they were as cheap here as they are in Canada!!!
MTMilitiaman
Member
Based solely on hearsay, they can be a great starting point. They have forged receivers, which some believe is more important than others. If you look around you can find decent deals on them because some people don't know their potential. There has been a Polytech hanging out at a pawn shop around here for months. If I had the $1100 I would snatch it up. If you put a few hundred bucks into one to have it properly headspaced and inspected, and maybe replace a bolt or FCG, you have a better rifle than an M1A for about the same cost. How much better is up for debate. I like my M1A. It is an excellent rifle. But if I had it to do again, something like the aforementioned Polytech would be an option I would consider strongly.
Wow.... Interesting position for someone with the moniker Freedom Freak..... I know this is probably going in a direction that is frowned on here at the HR but........ Apparently you are interested in your freedom but not in opposing those governments that don't care about an individuals freedom. If North Korea, China, Cuba or Iran sold guns for a few dollars cheaper than an American company you wouldn't care if Americans lost their jobs or what NK, Cuba or Iran did with the money you spent, just as long as you got a good deal? Very interesting indeed....
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14427H
Member
Polytech Scout?
To use a synthetic stock from a Springfield requires a couple small alterations to fit. The scout mount and handguard fits perfectly. I have one set up that way.
To use a synthetic stock from a Springfield requires a couple small alterations to fit. The scout mount and handguard fits perfectly. I have one set up that way.
Why did this thread go to politics? It is absolutely every buyer's right, even in China and Cuba, to consider and have bias toward a product's origin. It is not, however, in most places acceptable for a seller to take issue with a buyer's origin (nor is it economically sound).
Manufacturing in China, today has reached internationally recognised state of the art quality and reliability. That is an indisputable fact. On the other hand, if I buy a pair of pliers for a buck fifty (instead of say, 17.00), I would bet 17 dollars those pliers are made in China. And I could probably expect a 50/50 chance of those pliers snapping in half when trying to torque butter on a hot summer day. But that is a manufacturing STRATEGY adressing our global need for cheap disposable product, no longer an inability of China industry to be state of the art.
Back to THE QUESTION on the Norinco and Polytech M14 licenses... Politics aside, And forged receivers be darned, does anyone have long term data on reliability compared to M1A or M14s, and does anyone have experience based recommendations on their workmanship and shootability. They are half the price... but are they more or less than half thr value?
Since M1As and Garands are out of budget for many of us, what is the verdict. Better to stear clear, or will we be satisfied with our value for money?
PS. Anyone with a source of Cuban or North Korean M14s please PM me.
Manufacturing in China, today has reached internationally recognised state of the art quality and reliability. That is an indisputable fact. On the other hand, if I buy a pair of pliers for a buck fifty (instead of say, 17.00), I would bet 17 dollars those pliers are made in China. And I could probably expect a 50/50 chance of those pliers snapping in half when trying to torque butter on a hot summer day. But that is a manufacturing STRATEGY adressing our global need for cheap disposable product, no longer an inability of China industry to be state of the art.
Back to THE QUESTION on the Norinco and Polytech M14 licenses... Politics aside, And forged receivers be darned, does anyone have long term data on reliability compared to M1A or M14s, and does anyone have experience based recommendations on their workmanship and shootability. They are half the price... but are they more or less than half thr value?
Since M1As and Garands are out of budget for many of us, what is the verdict. Better to stear clear, or will we be satisfied with our value for money?
PS. Anyone with a source of Cuban or North Korean M14s please PM me.
I've had a Norinco M14S for several years, which I bought cheap from someone scared by all the Internet forum rumors of "cookie dough soft receivers and bolts", which originated, apparently, from a couple of companies telling Norc and Polytech owners that they were dangerous, unless they had a $500+ re-heat treatment from the guys spreading the rumors, and a bunch more bucks for fitting a GI surplus bolt.
In truth, the forged receivers seem very tough, and my Chinese bolt seems well enough fitted and hard enough to resist wear. I've fired several thousand rounds of surplus NATO-spec ammo of various nationalities through it, and the headspace hasn't changed measurably. The chromed bore still shoots well, too, and the scope mounting points on the receiver hold a Bassett mount with no shimming required. I wanted to put a regular USGI flash hider with bayonet mount on mine, so for the BATFE 922r regulatory compliance, I had to add a few other US made parts, including a USGI fiberglass stock and Checkmate magazines, but GI parts, except for the threads on the gas system and castle nut, are perfect fits. Minus the scope and scope mount, I have a little less than $800 in mine, and I'm pretty happy with it.
In truth, the forged receivers seem very tough, and my Chinese bolt seems well enough fitted and hard enough to resist wear. I've fired several thousand rounds of surplus NATO-spec ammo of various nationalities through it, and the headspace hasn't changed measurably. The chromed bore still shoots well, too, and the scope mounting points on the receiver hold a Bassett mount with no shimming required. I wanted to put a regular USGI flash hider with bayonet mount on mine, so for the BATFE 922r regulatory compliance, I had to add a few other US made parts, including a USGI fiberglass stock and Checkmate magazines, but GI parts, except for the threads on the gas system and castle nut, are perfect fits. Minus the scope and scope mount, I have a little less than $800 in mine, and I'm pretty happy with it.
14427H
Member
There are also different opinions on 922r on these. I went with "better safe"...
Use only US magazine (three named parts)
Springfield hand guard and stock (two named parts)
YHM flash hider
One set up as a scout cost me $730 including magazine but not the scope. Springfield Scout stock and mount came from eBay. You need to file a bit off the stock to get the action to set down fully and open up the pin hole and use USGI/Springfield op rod connector lock pin or do the "Popsicle stick" mod...adding a small shim to keep the original in. I've shimmed both of mine without issue. My second M14s walked into a Dallas gun show for $600 new in box. That was a year ago. I also check mine every 500 rounds. I still see no reason to pay to put in the TRW bolts I bought just in case.
Use only US magazine (three named parts)
Springfield hand guard and stock (two named parts)
YHM flash hider
One set up as a scout cost me $730 including magazine but not the scope. Springfield Scout stock and mount came from eBay. You need to file a bit off the stock to get the action to set down fully and open up the pin hole and use USGI/Springfield op rod connector lock pin or do the "Popsicle stick" mod...adding a small shim to keep the original in. I've shimmed both of mine without issue. My second M14s walked into a Dallas gun show for $600 new in box. That was a year ago. I also check mine every 500 rounds. I still see no reason to pay to put in the TRW bolts I bought just in case.
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HavelockLEO
Member
I picked mine up for 900 even and then gave it the treatment.
Here she is
Here she is
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