North American Union to Replace USA?

[The Real Hawkeye]

I'm not saying we should do away with the EPA or whatever; hey, I like a clean environment as much as the next guy. What I am saying is that there needs to be a level playing field. And this is where Congress comes in... we should attach a tariff on goods that - listen carefully - would equal the amount that it would be worth if the Chinese factory did have to abide by all the regulations we have to abide by. Let me repeat: we should attach a tariff on goods that would equal the amount that it would be worth if the Chinese factory did have to abide by all the regulations we have to abide by.

+1

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If the guy you're buying it from lives in China, you have deported American money.

No, I have spent my money. Not your money, not the government's money. My money. The money I worked for.

You have strengthened the Chinese economy, and weakened our own by a like amount.

Huh?

You're going to have to explain that one!!

I sent China some paper, they sent me a widgit. How are they better off than me?

 

[Waitone]

Once again liberty minded people are arguing amongst themselves: free or managed trade. Willing buyer // sellers. Ad nauseum. Meanwhile those who are responsible for creating the current situation excape blame. Go to China or India and a company avoids all health cost, environmental costs, safety costs, litigations costs and premiums, and legacy costs. Congress conveniently drops barriers to exit the American market, does nothing to reduce the mandated costs which raises the cost of production in the US to unsustainable levels in a world of labor arbitrage, and then tells us the US can't compete in manufacturing and we'll just have to be happy with the new economy of service sector.

Appealing to free market principals in a case of government mandated cost structures is nonsense. Adam Smith says there exists three ways to produce wealth: dig it out of the ground, grow it out of the ground, or make. What we are doing now in the name of "free trade" (which it ain't) is merely transferring generations of wealth out of the country. We are accruing debt at a rate unheard of in human history. I feel quite comfortable in predicting bad mojo down the road if we do not come to our sense.

 

[RiverwinoIA]

good debate, actually informative and enlightening for once.



Vern, please address the last post by molon labe. i want to see you explain that away.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Let's say you own a small manufacturing company located in the U.S. According to the government,

- You must pay a minimum wage
- You must meet all OSHA regulations
- You must collect taxes
- You must pay worker's compensation
- You must abide by a dizzying array of tax rules
- You must meet all EPA regulations
- You must meet all Department of Labor regulations
- You must meet all building code regulations
- You must meet all fire code regulations
- You must meet all regulations listed in the Americans with Disabilities Act
- Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Simple fix -- the Government should butt out.

The solution is not to give the government more power and allow them to say to the consumer:

- You must pay more for goods
- You must buy only from approved sources
- You cannot take quality or customer service into account.

Achtung! You must do as VE say!!

 

[longeyes]

We still have a few things to sell abroad that have yet to be ripped off.

But our main asset is our consumer market, for better or worse. If we don't get maximum return for that from every nation hungry to export we are stupid beyond belief.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Simple fix -- the Government should butt out.

The solution is not to give the government more power and allow them to say to the consumer:

- You must pay more for goods
- You must buy only from approved sources
- You cannot take quality or customer service into account.

Achtung! You must do as VE say!!

At this point your argument has deteriorated to simply denying reality and being silly. FIRST we need to unsocialize our own economy, and THEN we can be competitive on the world market without tariffs. If, however, we decide that some of those regulations of American industry are good, we simply cannot pretend that we are on an equal playing field with the third world. We must protect our industries, in that case, or we will be manufacturing nothing, and then we will be a third world country, which, by the way, is exactly what the one-worlders want.

If we continue to be a prosperous nation, Americans will fight tooth and nail against political and economic union with third world nations. This is why our government's policies seem calculated to destroy the American middle class. They are. As was the 1929 Stock Market crash, by the way. It was no accident. The Federal Reserve Bank manipulated interest rates in just the right way to bring it about. No way it could have been done by accident. It demolished the middle class, while funneling huge profits into the hands of the super wealthy friends of the Federal Reserve Bankers, who just happened to be sitting on lots of liquid cash at just the right time to buy up everything in sight at bargain basement prices. But I suppose that was just a coincidence.

 

[CletusFudd]

Super Slab

Ira,

They have the same plan here in Colorado. They're calling it the Super Slab and the movers and shakers behing it are truly a collection of shady, sleaze-bags. There is opposition to it now and they have identified some of the backers as being Arab. It's proposed as being 12 miles wide and 200 miles long with railroad and other services. They plan on using a mining law from the 1800's to move the residents off of their property.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

At this point your argument has deteriorated to simply denying reality and being silly. FIRST we need to unsocialize our own economy, and THEN we can be competitive on the world market without tariffs.

At this point your argument has deteriorated to simply denying reality and being silly. You decry socialism, and advocate more of it!!

 

[gc70]

by LAK:
Why has there never been an audit of the "Federal" Reserve Bank?

Wrong. Read How the Federal Reserve is Audited to learn about the annual internal audits, external audits by public CPA firms, and oversight by the GAO.

If you want to peddle the tired old Federal Reserve conspiracy theories, at least avoid the fabrications that are verifiably false.

 

[Sylvan-Forge]

Wrong. Read How the Federal Reserve is Audited to learn about the annual internal audits, external audits by public CPA firms, and oversight by the GAO.

If you want to peddle the tired old Federal Reserve conspiracy theories, at least avoid the fabrications that are verifiably false.

First of all, your underlined link, http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed35.html
IS THE FED. A bit biased, no?

Second, (From the link above)

Internal audits are conducted by a permanent audit staff at each Reserve Bank. Each audit staff is headed by a general auditor who reports directly to the Bank's board of directors.

Not very convincing to outsiders to audit your own stuff.

Third, (Also the link above)

In addition, a private CPA firm conducts an annual examination of each Reserve Bank and its branches on behalf of the Federal Reserve Board.

OK, this 'looks' a little better...
However, in light of the fact that this unconstitutional system has been in place since 1913, almost 100 years of insolence, I cannot abide by what this FEDERAL RESERVE says it does, nor the very government that allowed and continues to allow its existence.

A conspiracy... bet your arse it is!

Current Debt :

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

To : (Graph Dated 1998) :

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html

 

[Sylvan-Forge]

Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

<snip>



I don't see anything in the constitution allowing the congress to treasonously give the power of valuating (ultimately) and re-loaning (back to us) OUR money over to private entities. Of course there are alot of things that have been and are being done that are unconstitutional, eh?

 

[gc70]

Here is PriceWaterhouseCoopers' report on its 2005 audit of the Federal Reserve, which clearly answers (and refutes) the question of "Why has there never been an audit of the "Federal" Reserve Bank?"

Maybe it is "Not very convincing to outsiders to audit your own stuff" if you are unaware that it is standard practice (particularly given the legal requirements of Section 404 of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002) for all large corporations to have independent internal auditors to watch the business fulltime.

Of course, the above means little "in light of the fact that this unconstitutional system has been in place since 1913." Unless someone can cite a supporting Supreme Court decision, that would be a personal opinion.

 

[Sylvan-Forge]

That's an internal audit. (edit : oops, external)

I think I need to back up a little and clarify.

What I'm (and others) referring to is a thorough congressional investigation and audit.
WITH the findings disseminated for public inspection.

Since I'm of the opinion that this is indeed a conspiracy, setup behind a confusing array of intentionally confusing and misleading economic-techno-babble and babblers, dating nearly 100 years, well,
even if there was a congressional audit, I'd be apt to call it bs.

As for the constitutional legitimacy, I believe I have shown above that the duty to coin money and set its value belongs only to the Congress of the United States of America.

 

[LAK]

gc70,

I was referring to a full, complete, audit exclusively by the GAO going back to the bank's inception. The sort of thing the deceased Congressman Larry McDonald would have preferred.

From your link:

Operations at each Federal Reserve Bank also are subject to review by the General Accounting Office (GAO), the audit arm of the U.S. Congress. However, GAO auditors are restricted by law from reviewing monetary policy operations and transactions carried out by the Federal Reserve on behalf of foreign central banks. This restriction was imposed by Congress to assure the independence of the Federal Reserve from political influence.

That's a very convenient law. What kind of "political influence" could they be thinking of? Congress? The very Constitutional branch of government that is tasked with the control of our money?

The scope and frequency of audits are based on the specific risk factors inherent in each Bank's operations, including the nature of the activities it conducts, the prevailing level of controls surrounding these activities, and the quality and experience of the individuals assigned to the operation.

Rather selective to say the least, and a long way short of a complete audit.

As pointed out by others, the FRB branches being "examined" by other private CPA firms reporting to the Federal Reserve Board is little cause for any comfort.

Together with two other departments of the Bank, the audit staff controls activities in the Bank's gold vault, which stores about one-quarter of the world's official gold reserves. Auditors monitor all gold transactions, both deposits and withdrawals, and independently verify accounting records and balances pertaining to gold held in custody by the Bank.

Interesting; and where can we all see how much actual gold is actually currently held?

Just where in the Constitution is the power given to Congress to pass the control of our money to a private institution? Can Congress delegate it's power to declare war to a private corporation? How about privatizing the Supreme Court? The Navy? I mean Congress can simply "pass a bill" right?

If the creation of the "Federal" Reserve Bank and the eventual passing of the Owen-Glass Act was not the result of a conspiracy, what was it? A coincidence? An accident?

------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[gc70]

LAK, with all due respect, your commentary on auditing clearly reflects your lack of knowledge of the subject. If you want to portray yourself as an instant expert on the topic of auditing, you should spend some time at least learning the basics at the AICPA website.

 

[Ira Aten]

Quote from Vern below:

"Simple fix -- the Government should butt out."


Oh. The Government should "butt out". I wonder if your statement the government should "butt out" includes not condemning private properties stretching from the Mexican border all the way through Texas, up to the Red river, to build a "trade corridor" complete with entity owned businesses along the corridor to sell fuel and food while restricting free travel to citizens of the state of Texas unless they pay a toll via an installed microchip tracker just to cross this new entity to go from West Texas to East Texas. Does it also include them not requiring travellers to do business only with entity approved fuel stations and food stations they intend to construct? I thought you were for "free trade" a few posts ago. Noit appears you are wanting the government to butt out.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What's your point? That the cure for socialism is more socialism?

As for the corridor -- my son-in-law is very good about explaining to my 3-year old grand daughter that there are no monsters under the bed.

 

[Thin Black Line]

Vern,

As prolific of a writer as you are and we're not going to discuss the
Russell Trust and its members running in the 2004 Presidential
elections? Has that been verbotten for you?

 

[longeyes]

There's a good epitaph for America:

"There were no monsters under the bed."

Look again.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I gather you meant something in that post, but I'm danged if I can figure out what.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

There's a good epitaph for America:

"There were no monsters under the bed."

Look again.

There are no monsters under the bed.

But there are people who see conspiracies everywhere -- and do nothing but gripe about them.

They don't join and take over their local political committees. They don't recruit good candidates and support them. They don't raise money. They don't take on the burden of running for office themselves.

They just lie in bed and gripe about the monsters.

 

[longeyes]

As for the corridor -- my son-in-law is very good about explaining to my 3-year old grand daughter that there are no monsters under the bed.

Sometimes the monsters under the bed wear suits and ties and smile a lot with glistening wolf-like teeth.

 

[Thin Black Line]

They don't join and take over their local political committees. They don't recruit good candidates and support them. They don't raise money. They don't take on the burden of running for office themselves.

On the contrary, I know quite a few people who've run for "local" offices
over the years. I also know that new "junior" members on the Hill are
sat down with their Partiya leadership and "reminded" on how they should
vote on important bills as they come up. If you don't go along with things,
suddenly all financial support and communication that keeps people in
"the loop" disappears.

It's also quite plain to read that our President only meets and briefs "key
members" on the Hill. It's also apparent that the MSM only has approximately
a dozen or so Hill-billies that ever seem to be interviewed by the talking
heads. This, of course, sets the proper perception for the public and policy
as followed by other members of the beaurocracy --much like any other
central committee in other national-level gov'ts whether they are so-called
Right or Left (the Politburo of the FSU comes to mind).

How about that FBI raid over a measely $100K? Can you say "chump change"?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Sometimes the monsters under the bed wear suits and ties and smile a lot with glistening wolf-like teeth.

And those who see them do nothing but gripe about them.

They don't join and take over their local political committees. They don't recruit good candidates and support them. They don't raise money. They don't take on the burden of running for office themselves.

They just lie in bed and gripe about the monsters.