North Dakota Concealed Carry question

[Olys45]

I have tried to research the exact meaning of this and I could not find out exactly what is meant by this statement below. I got this off of packing.org.

"Any person who enters or remains in that part of the establishment that is set aside for the retail sale in an establishment engaged in the retail sale of alcoholic beverages"

What does this mean?

Does it apply to the bar/grill or just liquor stores? If this has a broad meaning, would it apply to the local stop-n-robs since they sell beer? I have taken it as a true liquor store, bar, or the bar portion of the bar/grill.

I don't drink if I am carrying, but it would suck that I couldn't carry into the local wing joint because they sell beer.

Thanks,

Oly

 

[P0832177]

Call the Attorny General and ask for clarification! No armchair lawyer will be able to sort it out! Get it from the right source!

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

No way. Write a letter, and ask for an explaination in WRITING. A phone call from the AG might be ok, but go ahead and claim you talked with the authorities when you're on trial. No one from government is going to swoop in to your rescue and claim they said they gave you the OK.

 

[psyopspec]

Taken from: http://www.in-forum.com/specials/askapro/?month=38. Someone raised the question to the chief; the reply is from the Fargo City Attorney's office. The establishment in the question is Lauerman's, a bar and grill in downtown Fargo.


10/24/2002
Question:
CWP Holder
I have a concealed weapons permit, and work in the downtown area. The ND Century code at 62.1-02-04. states: "Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in liquor establishment or gaming site prohibited. Exceptions. Any person who enters or remains in that part of the establishment that is set aside for the retail sale in an establishment engaged in the retail sale of alcoholic beverages or used as a gaming site while in the possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon is guilty of a class A misdemeanor." I am wondering about places such as Lauerman's during the lunch hour. Alcohol is available, but if I were there eating lunch (drinking Pepsi!) and inadvertantly allowed someone a glimpse of my firearm, would your department treat that as a violation?

Answer:
Police Chief Magnus
Interesting question. We did some checking with the City Attorney's Office and reached this conclusion: State law does not provide an exception for people with a concealed carry permit to be in an establishment serving alcohol. An establishment like Lauermann's allows for alcohol anywhere in the business, so it appears that you would be in violation if you carried a weapon into the business. Hope that helps.

 

[jamz]

"Any person who enters or remains in that part of the establishment that is set aside for the retail sale in an establishment engaged in the retail sale of alcoholic beverages"

To my untrained eye, the provision deals with places that sell booze, say, a liquor store, bar or supermarket (If Supermarkets in your state sell booze).

It further breaks down to deal with only the square footage in the place that does the booze selling- in a liquor store, this would be all the aisles, the cooler, the checkout line, and maybe the warehouse.

In a bar, it is pretty much the entire bar area, tables and all, and the bar itself. In a supermarket, I imagine it would mean the aisles containing the booze.

So it seems to me that you can't carry in the above listed places, but you CAN carry in areas that don't deal with the sale of booze- in a liquor store, this would mean maybe the entry hallway, if it exists, or the HVAC or electrical rooms or the business office for example, but most of the square footage of the store would be off limits.

In a bar, maybe you could carry in the business office part, maybe the entry hallway, but that's it.

In a supermarket, I believe you could carry anywhere as long as you don't go down the booze aisle.

Note that it does not say that you can't be around booze at all, just can't be around the selling of it, so you'd be okay carrying in a place where they were giving it away, such as a party or something.

That's just my interpretation, anyway. What a crazy law!

-James

 

[Olys45]

Call the Attorny General and ask for clarification! No armchair lawyer will be able to sort it out! Get it from the right source!

I was figuring that I would have to send a letter, I was hoping that somebody would have been throught the ND CCW class. I have a MT permit so I didn't have to sit through the class here in ND.

Thanks,

Oly

 

[Nickotym]

In North Dakota, convenience stores are not allowed to sell beer, so you don't have to worry about that part.

As I read it, this law talks about places like Red Lobster or Applebee's or ChiChi's that primarily sell food but also sell alcohol for onsite consumption. The law says you can be in the restauraunt, but not the part of the restaurant set aside as a bar area.

I am not sure I agree with the Lauerman's example but I guess the city of Fargo feels that way.

I would have to couble check the ND code again, because I think it only applies to places that sell acohol for onsite consumption.

Remember: IANAL.

Edit: In a quick review of the laws I see that it doesn't matter if it is for onsite consumption or off-site consumption, you can't carry in a bar or liquor store.