Northern Illinois University Shooting

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If anyone is interested, here is his myspace blog:

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...iendID=1455035

WARNING - There is bad language here.

As you can read, his last blog is out-there...
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I don't feel like I'm old enough to be saying "kids today, I don't even understand what they're talking about" but really that blog is just all jibberish to me. From what I can tell it seems like he may have some issues with an old girlfriend and his dad but the entry on the 14th in no way looks like the words of a guy about to go out and start shooting.
 
Well, the blog entries are a little out there, but it's more stream of consciousness/rambling... Doesn't really seem like an "I'm going to snap and kill a buncha folks" kinda stuff. I mean, he's talking about what he's going to do later, and all that stuff... May not actually be him, you know?

The pathology just seems kind of off... Sociology grad student, going off meds, going nutso? Had the guy gone Jihad? Who knows... We need to catch one alive, so we can dissect the motivation.

Have you called your university/media yet?
 
So why is the identity of the shooter such close-hold information?
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Possibly because making the loser out to be a media antihero a la the Virginia Tech shooter tends to inspire copycats who think "hey, I'll be famous." Deny them that path to notoriety, by all means.
 
This is starting to sound like a broken record --

- young male
- intelligent
- history of mental illness
- recently stopped taking meds
- probably experienced some recent traumatic event that sent him into a suicidal/homicidal rage

:(
 
cnn.com is running a story on readers' responses to the shooting. As can be expected, there are many people screaming about banning all guns, though a few people have posted thoughtful rebuttles. I'd suggest that some of us go over there and do the same. I posted the following:

These shootings are taking place in states with the most restrictive gun laws in the country, like Illinois and California, in the institutions with the strictest gun bans--schools--yet the only response many people have is to do more of what already isn't working: more gun laws and more gun restrictions. This is a perfect example of the comment often attributed to Albert Einstein: insanity is performing the same action over and over and expecting a different result.

If you want some statistics on what does work, look up the violent crime rates in states that have adopted "shall-issue" approaches to allowing law-abiding citizens to carry handguns. Without exception such rates have declined in each and every state.

But people who suffer from the above definition of insanity probably won't be swayed by introducing logic into the discussion.
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Gunman Identified.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/niu_shooting

Illinois college shooter stopped medication: police

By James Kelleher, Reuters
28 minutes ago

DEKALB, Ill. — The man who gunned down five people at Northern Illinois University in a suicidal rampage became erratic after halting his medication and carried a shotgun to campus inside a guitar case, police said Friday.

The man, 27-year-old former student Stephen Kazmierczak, was also wielding three handguns during Thursday's ambush inside a lecture hall.

Two of the weapons — the pump-action Remington shotgun and a Glock 9mm handgun — were purchased legally less than a week ago, on Feb. 9, authorities said. They were purchased in Champaign, where Kazmierczak was enrolled at the University of Illinois.

A spokesman for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms said the other two guns were also traced to the Champaign gun shop, but the ATF was still determining when Kazmierczak picked them up.

Kazmierczak had a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card, which is required for all Illinois residents who buy or possess firearms, authorities said.

The gunman's father, Robert Kazmierczak, briefly came out of his single-story house in Lakeland, Fla., to talk to reporters.

"Please leave me alone. I have no statement to make and no comment. OK? I'd appreciate that. This is a very hard time. I'm a diabetic and I don't want to go into a relapse," he said before breaking down crying.

He then went back inside his house, which has a sign on the front door that says "Illini fans live here."

President Bush talked by telephone with NIU President John Peters and said people will be praying for the families of the victims and for the Northern Illinois University community.

Campus Police Chief Donald Grady said investigators recovered 48 shell casings and six shotgun shells following the attack in Cole Hall. The gunman paused to reload his shotgun after opening fire on a crowd of terrified students in a geology class, sending them running and crawling toward the exits. He shot himself to death on the stage of the hall.

Kazmierczak, whose first name was earlier listed as Steven, was taking some kind of medication, Grady said.

"He had stopped taking medication and become somewhat erratic in the last couple of weeks," Grady said, declining to name the drug or provide other details.

Correcting information his office released earlier Friday, DeKalb County Coroner Dennis J. Miller said five students, not six, were killed in the rampage, in addition to the gunman. Miller said the higher victim total was the result of confusion over the fate of a patient taken to another county for treatment.

"There was a miscommunication," Miller said.

The motive of the killer, who graduated from NIU in 2006 but was a student there as recently as last year, was still not known. Grady said Kazmierczak was an "outstanding" student while at NIU and authorities were still trying to determine why he would kill. There was no known suicide note.

"We were dealing with a disturbed individual who intended to do harm on this campus," Peters said.

Witnesses said the gunman, dressed in black and wearing a stocking cap, emerged from behind a screen on the stage of 200-seat Cole Hall and opened fire just as the class was about to end around 3 p.m. Officials said 162 students were registered for the class but it was unknown how many were there Thursday.

John Giovanni, 20, of Des Plaines said the gunman calmly fired at the greatest concentration of students.

"He was shooting from the hip. He was just shooting," said Giovanni, who turned and ran so fast that he lost a shoe. "I was running but I was hurtling over people in the fetal position."

Peters said four people died at the scene, including three students and the gunman. The other died at a hospital. The teacher, a graduate student, was wounded but was expected to recover.

Miller released the identities of four victims: Daniel Parmenter, 20, of Westchester; Catalina Garcia, 20, of Cicero; Ryanne Mace, 19, of Carpentersville; and Julianna Gehant, 32, of Meridan.

Another victim, Gayle Dubowski, a 20-year-old sophomore from Carol Stream, died at a Rockford hospital, Winnebago County Coroner Sue Fiduccia said.

The killer had been a graduate student in sociology at Northern Illinois as recently as spring 2007, Peters said. He also said the suspect had no record of police contact or an arrest record while attending Northern Illinois, a campus with 25,000 students about 65 miles west of Chicago.

The gunman was a student at the University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign, Chancellor Richard Herman said. The university is about 140 miles south of Chicago.

Lauren Carr said she was sitting in the third row when she saw the shooter walk through a door on the right-hand side of the stage, pointing a gun straight ahead.

"I personally Army-crawled halfway up the aisle," said Carr, a 20-year-old sophomore. "I said I could get up and run or I could die here."

She said a student in front of her was bleeding, "but he just kept running."

"I heard this girl scream, 'Run, he's reloading the gun!'"

More than a hundred students cried and hugged as they gathered outside the Phi Kappa Alpha house early Friday to remember Parmenter. Flowers, candles and small notes were left in the snow near Cole Hall. Flags were flying at half-staff. At a house across the street, a hand-drawn banner made out of a sheet said: 'NIU We Pray 4 U'

The campus was closed on Friday. Students were urged to call their parents and were offered counseling at any residence hall, according to the school Web site.

The school was closed for one day during final exam week in December after campus police found threats, including racial slurs and references to shootings earlier in the year at Virginia Tech, scrawled on a bathroom wall in a dormitory. Police determined after an investigation that there was no imminent threat and the campus was reopened. Peters said he knew of no connection between that incident and Thursday's attack."
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I respectfully disagree......

Quote: We need to catch one alive, so we can dissect the motivation.

I don't think the motive matters, especially since it could be unique for each shooter. We need ARMED people in these locations to deter and HALT any event that occurs, regardless of motivation.
 
there is no law that can stop things like this from happening. Only responsible armed citizens like you and me with a ccw or open carry could make a potential bad guy rethink about whose armed or not
 
We need to catch one alive, so we can dissect the motivation.
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You're looking for logic in the actions of a mad man and I think you'll have a hard time finding it.

Illinois senator and presidential candidate Barack Obama in a statement said that beyond prayers "we must also offer ... our determination to do whatever it takes to eradicate this violence from our streets and our schools; from our neighborhoods and our cities."
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It would be nice for him to elaborate on how "we" will control the actions of the mentally ill.
 
My reply to comments and opinions CNN.com

Properly translated (I am fluent in Hebrew & Aramaic) the sixth commandment is; "Thou Shalt Not Murder". This was written before the age of gunpowder, so I find it unsettling that people would cast their blame on guns, or the NRA. Murder has been with us ever since Cain slew his brother Abel and I know Cain didn't use a handgun, shotgun or rifle because they didn't exist.
Gun control will only control the law abiding, gun control will only be advantageous for the criminal who ignores societies laws and restrictions. In the right hands, a gun is a life saving tool as has been proven by John Lott's study. Media bias is also to blame for many people's lack of knowledge in this study. Nothing sells better than a shooting, a bombing or in fact any tragedy. When NRA conventions start having mass killings is when I will agree with the hand-wringing gun control advocates, but until then, until we start seeing murderous sprees happening in places where concealed carry permits are allowed, we must face the facts that the great majority of these murders are being committed in places where only the law abiding citizen is unarmed, and that is all the facts. My heart goes out to all those that allow themselves to be mislead into false security by the politicians who lie to the public. If one needs proof that guns save lives, look at these statistics: http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html
The safest places are those that allow it's sane citizens the right to be armed. I personally have carried a handgun since I was 17 and intervened when an irate husband threatened to kill his wife. She ran into my grandmothers house and I stood outside and exposed my colt to the man who immediately calmed down and went home to cool off, who knows how it would have ended otherwise. I later became a police officer and know that the police will always arrive after the problem, and usually too late to do anything other than take a few pictures and mop up the blood. In the wrong hands, guns are a menace, but there are far too many guns on the streets right now to propose more laws that just restrict the law abiding. Instead, we need to give the law abiding the same chance as those that ignore the laws. All those in favor of gun control are really just ranting about shutting the barn door after the horse is gone. We need to be rational and not listen to the emotional rants of those that have already tied our hands by promoting these "Free Fire Zones", what they call "Gun Free Zones". Gun Free Zones? Yeah Right!


Thank you for contributing. Comments are moderated by CNN and will not appear on this story until after they have been reviewed and deemed appropriate for posting. Unfortunately, due to the volume of comments we receive, not all comments can be posted.

Think they will post my comment?
 
I will still plunk down $$$$ that is WAS the medication. His prior-medication condition could have been something that was treatable without the meds. However, doctors LOVE to prescribe pills for any ailment these days. Now suppose he took 3 different meds. Who knows what all 3 does to the brain. Are there any tests showing what a drug cocktail will do to a brain?? What if the patient comes off them? What effect will it have?

The reason I pose this is because a co-worker decided to off herself one day. Mind oyu, this was a happy-go-lucky person that loved everything. She was a mother of 2, married but had a heart condition. The doc said is was non-life threatening and treatable with meds. After taking the meds, her attitude changed and became distant. A week later, she shot herself in the head. Everyone was beyond shocked. She was the LAST person to do this.

So, my point? There aren't nearly enough tests done today concerning multiple medication treatments on the human body. This is becoming a severe epidemic IMO.

Now, I'm not defending him at all. In fact we need to get more facts on any meds he was taking, if any. Then we can discuss from there.
 
I'm all for on campus/anywhere CCW, but the odds of someone availing themselves to it and that it would have made a difference in the killer's decision are specualtive at best. Philosophically, I'd prefer slim odds to none, of course.

---

I'm interested in how the dialogue pans out in that the police response was as good as it will ever be and yet still ineffective in that a police response cannot avert the initial event.
 
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Obama speaks out.

MILWAUKEE — Barack Obama said Friday that the country must do “whatever it takes” to eradicate gun violence following a campus shooting in his home state, but he believes in an individual’s right to bear arms.

Obama said he spoke to Northern Illinois University’s president Friday morning by phone and offered whatever help his Senate office could provide in the investigation and improving campus security. The Democratic presidential candidate spoke about the Illinois shooting to reporters while campaigning in neighboring Wisconsin.

The senator, a former constitutional law instructor, said some scholars argue the Second Amendment to the Constitution guarantees gun ownerships only to militias, but he believes it grants individual gun rights.

“I think there is an individual right to bear arms, but it’s subject to commonsense regulation” like background checks, he said during a news conference. [NOTE: The NIU killer had passed a NICS check two weeks ago.]

He said he would support federal legislation based on a California law that would facilitate immediate tracing of bullets used in a crime. He said even though the California law was passed over the strong objection of the National Rifle Association, he thinks it’s the type of law that gun owners and crime victims can get behind.

Although Obama supports gun control, while campaigning in gun-friendly Idaho earlier this month, he said he does not intend to take away people’s guns.

At his news conference, he voiced support for the District of Columbia’s ban on handguns, which is scheduled to be heard by the Supreme Court next month.

“The notion that somehow local jurisdictions can’t initiate gun safety laws to deal with gang bangers and random shootings on the street isn’t born out by our Constitution,” Obama said.
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He speaks out of both sides of his lying mouth!
 
More from Obama

I hadn't seen this posted:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OBAMA?SITE=WBAL&SECTION=NATIONAL&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

(notice the great spin by the headline)
Feb 15, 1:07 PM EST

Obama Supports Individual Gun Rights

By NEDRA PICKLER

MILWAUKEE (AP) -- Barack Obama said Friday that the country must do "whatever it takes" to eradicate gun violence following a campus shooting in his home state, but he believes in an individual's right to bear arms.

Obama said he spoke to Northern Illinois University's president Friday morning by phone and offered whatever help his Senate office could provide in the investigation and improving campus security. The Democratic presidential candidate spoke about the Illinois shooting to reporters while campaigning in neighboring Wisconsin.

The senator, a former constitutional law instructor, said some scholars argue the Second Amendment to the Constitution guarantees gun ownerships only to militias, but he believes it grants individual gun rights.

"I think there is an individual right to bear arms, but it's subject to commonsense regulation" like background checks, he said during a news conference.

He said he would support federal legislation based on a California law that would facilitate immediate tracing of bullets used in a crime. He said even though the California law was passed over the strong objection of the National Rifle Association, he thinks it's the type of law that gun owners and crime victims can get behind.

Five people, including the shooter, were killed during Thursday's ambush inside a lecture hall. Authorities said the two guns used were purchased legally less then a week ago.

"Today we offer them our thoughts and prayers, but we also have to offer them our determination to do whatever it takes to eradicate this violence from our streets, from our schools, from our neighborhoods and our cities," Obama said. "That is our duty as Americans."

Although Obama supports gun control, while campaigning in gun-friendly Idaho earlier this month, he said he does not intend to take away people's guns.

At his news conference, he voiced support for the District of Columbia's ban on handguns, which is scheduled to be heard by the Supreme Court next month.

"The notion that somehow local jurisdictions can't initiate gun safety laws to deal with gang bangers and random shootings on the street isn't born out by our Constitution," Obama said.
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Seems to me the story here is not that more restrictive gun laws could've helped prevent it or more freedom to CCW would've helped prevent it, but just a sick guy who went to a crowded place to take some folks out along with himself...this can never be fully prevented...not in the 40+ years since the shooter in the university bell tower in TX.

It's also sad that all the media coverage will now mention Glocks and 9mm rounds and further contribute to misunderstandings about guns and gun ownership.
 
Mr. Obama is going to Texas to debate; he is doing the 2nd amdt shuffle.

It is AMAZING how the NIU murders have the sheep bleating out 'don't cheapen the death of the children with talk of concealed carry'.

Anyone who has attended NIU and been in Cole knows it affords no fast exit, but pretty good defensive cover if one would be able to shoot back. It is set up like a movie theater with heavy rows of bolted-down desks.

I'm numb and enraged all at once.
 
Washington D.C., the U.S. city with one of the highest murder rates in the industrialized world, also has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the United States, yet anti-gun folks like Obama speak of the D.C. gun ban as if it was a good thing. What sort of fundamental disconnect is taking place in the logic employed by such people?
 
I posted on CNN's commentary, we shall see if they put it up...



Somebody suggested he was suicidal and would not care if members of the faculty or other students had their own firearms...


http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/15/niu.irpt/index.html






If the shooter was merely suicidal he would have blown his brains out and been done with it. He wanted to take people with and go out with a bang... If he knew a half-dozen students or professors would probably have pistols, and he would die by their hand, and not by his own, in his way, he might have just shot himself and not even tried to commit that massacre.

Many people commit suicide, few of them try to take dozens with them. If somebody wants to die but take others with them, and they know that they will simply be shot down after they fire a few rounds, they may just cancel the idea and take their own life, or start talking to a friend and ultimately get the help they need.

There is a serious issue when approximately 40% of American adults admit that they have no serious friend in whom to confide and with whom they can have serious conversations. We are a nation of strangers, that is the issue... In 1925 anybody could buy a Tommy Gun (sub-machine gun, full auto weapon) at a general store, for $100 dollars, without even so much as giving their name... There were no massacres with such weapons, except for some incidents with organized crime/mafia/gangsters.

People had friends, people had family, two generations were living under one roof. Today we have this idea that if you do not abandon your parents and rush out on your own at age 18-19, you must be warped in the head. Why is this? What is wrong with maintaining strong family ties, being connected with your kin, and having a few close friends whom you trust? Why do we have to be a society that is always on the move but yet going nowhere.

The people who blame guns are simply helping to fuel the problem where society allows people to skirt individual responsibility. There's no need to own up to anything when inanimate objects (guns) can become the object of the blame, rather than the shooter. It is much easier to blame guns than it is to admit that society is not conducive for the raising of proper children. Why is this? Because people are part of society, and those who blame guns are part of society. They do not want to admit that they are part of a system that helps to corrupt and ruin children, particularly their children. They go to work six days a week, ten hours a day, make all the money they can get their hands on, leave their kids in day-care for the better part of the day, and maybe spend two hours per evening with them, and think that qualifies them as parents. When something goes wrong they rush to blame guns.

Japan has 'knife/sword' rampages, to the point where people have used swords to kill 5-10 people in crowded areas... Germany has had similar issues with knives, as had the UK and Australia.

The problem is not guns; the problem is society, people, attitudes... If you're not helping to foster a more understanding and caring society, and you're content to sit back and blame guns, then you are part of the problem.

I do not buy this "tempers flare" crap, since I carry a pistol and because of it, I go OUT OF MY WAY to avoid confrontations, particularly when driving, since I do not want a minor traffic incident (somebody cutting me off, or tail-gating me) to escalate into a situation where they try to hurt me and I am backed into a corner with no choice but to shoot them to save my own life. My goal is not to shoot people, my goal is to live in peace. Because of this, I am often armed and I look to avoid situations or alleviate tensions before they rise too much. When you're not carrying a gun, and you know nobody else is, there is no real incentive not to get into a fight, since the worst that happens is a few bone get broken. When you have a gun or a knife, you want more than anything to STAY OUT OF TROUBLE and to avoid any petty argument that might result in confrontation, since you do NOT want to wind up in a shoot-out or a knife fight. Carrying a firearm is a responsibility, and in reasonable adults (I consider myself one) it breeds a sense of obligation, to yourself, to society, to those around you, and to the community. I own dozens of firearms but that does not make me some sort of creep or a loner who is just itching to mow people down. I know my neighbors, I know my colleagues, I have friends, I have stuck my neck out to help complete strangers who were being assaulted in public places, as other people just walked along without a care in the world.

Guns are not the problem; they're not even part of the problem. There is no use discussing what sort of guns people should have, why they should be allowed to have them or not allowed to have them, or how they should be able to have them/carry them/etc, we only need to cover the basics of WHO should have them. Society used to be healthy to the point where basically anybody could have anything, and most people got along fine with that. Guns have not changed, people have not changed, society has changed and is pressuring people to change. Society today stands against human nature and needs to be radically altered or else more and more people will snap, hurt themselves, hurt others, or resign themselves to living miserable lives.

Slow down, learn to live within your means, stop chasing money at the exclusion of all things, socialize with your neighbors, connect with your colleagues, remain involved with your family, and be active in your community.

You could have a thousand guns and be the most decent and well-balanced person in the world and thus not pose a danger to anybody.

You could have a knife, zero friends, no connections, and be totally off-the-wall, and be a danger to anybody within arm's reach.

It is not about guns...
 
Washington D.C., the U.S. city with one of the highest murder rates in the industrialized world, also has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the United States, yet anti-gun folks like Obama speak of the D.C. gun ban as if it was a good thing. What sort of fundamental disconnect is taking place in the logic employed by such people?
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The same disconnect that convinces then that raising tax rates on the rich will somehow help the middle and lower classes.

Or the theory that government can reduce poverty, despite the complete waste of trillions of dollars with the end result being that the poverty rate is roughly the same after 70+ years of every conceivable welfare program.

ad infinitum.
 
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