Northern Illinois University Shooting

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I hope residents form a barricade to keep Phelps and his inbred ilk out of earshot for those poor people's families.

I wish that they'd all get struck by lightning.... repeatedly.
 
We all knew it was going to be something like this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080216/ap_on_re_us/niu_shooting

A former employee at a Chicago psychiatric treatment center said Kazmierczak was placed there after high school by his parents. She said he used to cut himself, and had resisted taking his medications.
...
University Police Chief Donald Grady said Friday that Kazmierczak had become erratic in the past two weeks after he stopped taking his medication.

Kazmierczak spent more than a year at the Thresholds-Mary Hill House in the late 1990s, former house manager Louise Gbadamashi told The Associated Press. His parents placed him there after high school because he had become "unruly" at home, she said.

Gbadamashi said she couldn't remember any instances of him being violent.

[TBL: Other than to himself...]

"He never wanted to identify with being mentally ill," she said. "That was part of the problem."
...
Kazmierczak once told Thomas about getting a discharge from the Army.

"It was no major deal, a kind of incompatibility discharge — for a state of mind, not for any behavior," Thomas said. "He was concerned that that on his record might be a stigma."

[TBL: Was this a medical discharge for a Personality Disorder?]

Kazmierczak enlisted in September 2001, but was discharged in February 2002 for an "unspecified" reason, Army spokesman Paul Boyce said.

[TBL: C'mon what was his chapter?]

He worked from Sept. 24 to Oct. 9 as a corrections officer at the Rockville Correctional Facility, a medium-security prison in Rockville, Ind. His tenure there ended when "he just didn't show up one day," Indiana prisons spokesman Doug Garrison said.

Authorities were searching for a woman who police believe may have been Kazmierczak's girlfriend. According to a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the case is still under investigation, authorities were looking into whether Kazmierczak and the woman recently broke up.
 
This guy had a long history of mental illness. The state of IL gave him a FOID card anyway.
Indiana made him a corrections officer. if they could not tell he was kooked, who could.

my guess is that he took his meds and they made him feel so wigged out he quit taking them, and then he started to have delusions, which seems to be a common thing when coming off psychotropic drugs.
 
It's also very consistent with the folks who go into social work/mental health - a lot of them are fairly twisted, and go into the profession that they see is helping them.

Did any of you guys hear back from people you contacted? Have you been sharing your apprehensions with friends, and getting them involved?
 
I wonder how many of the shooters in recent shootings were on meds at the time of the shooting or had recently gone off of them. Man, this whole happy med thing is getting scary.
 
haven't heard back yet, should monday though, perhaps tuesday by the latest, told the new girlfriend about it, weirded her out, been giving me a bit of the silent treatment since, whatever, I'm not losing any sleep over it.
 
As much as I'd like to be able to disagree with this guy, I think he's pretty much got it pegged:

http://uwantsun.myblogsite.com/entry170.html#body

The Disarming of America (full article)

Well, clearly it has become very apparent that 2008 is going to be the big year they are going for total gun control. We are now being treated twice-weekly, with very public shootings in schools, public buildings, stores, YOU NAME IT. The idea? To get folks thinking that NO WHERE AND NO ONE IS SAFE, ANYWHERE, as long as the public has firearms. This is an agency operation, quite clearly. The disinformation artists will speak of Prozac and drugs, and bad times, but the reason for the mainstream media assault and the staggering frequency and disparity of shooting locations and victims is to paint a horrific picture and spread fear.

With school shootings, it was lock down the schools, turn campuses into day prisons, and get the kids used to search and seizure without rights. It can be then said that OP was successful, as that accurately describes the conditions of K-12 schools all over this country. Now, the push is on to have that same kind of lockdown, search and seizure without rights, and police security teams EVERYWHERE, as they have now at all schools.

Watch it continue to unfold—with the machine already doing the dialectic two-step of problem-reaction-solution and the disarming of America. It's all happening right now, in real time.

Imagine being searched and scanned for weapons at the grocery store? The mall? Going for a walk in the park? Think it’s far fetched and unrealistic? Well, folks in the 1980s and earlier would have said exactly the same thing if you said ALL CHILDREN IN AMERICA would be searched, piled through metal detectors to get to school, and their constitutional rights waved forever. Someone saying the above in, say, 1988, would have been laughed out of the country. If you were to tell a parent in 1992 or 1962 that Johnny would be kicked out of school for waving a plastic fork around the lunch room in play, they’d of shaken their head at you in derision.

The purpose of these shootings is to


create an atmosphere of fear, anguish, frustration get weeping mothers, people holding other people in their arms and consoling each other, with painful wails for the cameras (all quite real, in most instances) establish a plank on the political platform, that allows the creation of mandatory gun registration and confiscation of firearms laws exceeding all other laws in place, to be politically acceptable by the voting pubic. shed blood, for ritualistic purposes. Etc, etc, etc,.

Interesting, isn’t it? The shootings tie to sabbats, new moons, black magic numerological codexes, and so on? And why? To get the most mojo (magic) working on behalf of the “people” behind these atrocities.

For a police state to be successful in its pogrom of slavery, the citizens must be disarmed. It’s all over the history books, but NOT on the History Channel. It happened in Germany, China, Russia, England, Australia, and many, many other countries. It’s happening in America, and the reason for going through the motions of the public shootings is because of the US CONSTITUTION, which allows private ownership of firearms for the express purpose of stopping a police state. In communist and fascist countries, they simply took the guns from you. In so-called democracies, they have to go through the motions and fictional realities so the people WILL DEMAND ALL FIREARMS TO BE TAKEN AWAY.

Watch for the frenzied wave of shootings to continue. And, as with any good script to work by, with a climatic and most terribly awful final tragedy that will become a kind of 911 on gun control. With Time, Newsweek, People, and all the other psyop organs already spinning how we are to feel about it all and, more importantly, what can ONLY be done about it.

GET THE GUNS.

The next sabbat is on March 21st. Not very far away, is it. The last sabbat was on February 1st, just a few days ago. And what a crescendo of death has been unfolding since the shift to Aquarius on January 21st and the new moons of this year.

Remember. 2008 is the year death. Especially for the USA. Everywhere and everything will be colored by the spectre of death or related to it. Watch the big media events. They will all have overtones and death themes. Death of a country, a people, an ideal, of housing, of the US dollar, of freedom, the stock market, and a way of life. It’s even in the fashions, the music, and the movies. They’ve covered it all. It’s all around us, visible and easy to read.




I'll save you a trip to the dictionary. The word sabbat is not misspelled. Its meaning has to do with ritual murder.
 
I wonder how many of the shooters in recent shootings were on meds at the time of the shooting or had recently gone off of them. Man, this whole happy med thing is getting scary.
I wonder how many people that die of heart attacks were on blood thinners, or how many diebetics are taking insulin. You have to remember that correlation does not mean causation. Of course these people were on medication and seeing mental health professionals, they were nuts. Shooting a bunch of innocent people isn't something someone without mental issues does. We shouldn't be surprised to see that people with mental health trouble are being treated for mental health trouble.

The next sabbat is on March 21st. Not very far away, is it. The last sabbat was on February 1st, just a few days ago. And what a crescendo of death has been unfolding since the shift to Aquarius on January 21st and the new moons of this year.
I don't want to turn this into a skeptic's thread but if we really want to be taken seriously by the public, I hope we're not going to try to use astrology to do it.
 
If enough people get involved at a grass roots level (that means YOU, folks... and any friends who you can get involved...), we can change these policies. NOTHING is engraved in stone, despite what your university administration may say. Change only happens when people care enough to make it happen. Some of you care. The rest of you really need to ask yourself a question: "Why am I here?"

We've got 60,000 members in this forum.

At this moment, 1500 folks are online here.

We have the numbers. We need to use them.
 
Of course these people were on medication and seeing mental health professionals, they were nuts. Shooting a bunch of innocent people isn't something someone without mental issues does. We shouldn't be surprised to see that people with mental health trouble are being treated for mental health trouble.

Excellent post soybomb. I was trying to figure out how to phrase it - but you nailed it!
 
Sorry to hear about this tragedy at my alma mater.

A few weeks ago Congress passed and W signed the Veterans Disarament act. This act prohibits veterans and CIVILIANS who have been deemed mentally incompetent from owning firearms. My point is this law didn't prevent this shooting. Why wasn't the buyer flagged as a mental case and dis-qualified from purchase when the back ground check was performed?

I don't have the answer but I suspect the anti-gunners may now argue, "gun laws don't work now the Ferals must confiscate all guns from every one." Just something to be on the look out for.

Beertracker
Houston, TX
 
I wonder how many people that die of heart attacks were on blood thinners, or how many diebetics are taking insulin. You have to remember that correlation does not mean causation.

Correlation does not necessarily mean causation, but it certainly doesn't disprove causation. It seems like not a month goes by when some heart medication or diabetes medication isn't proven to be more damaging than the disease itself. For example, earlier this month a study in lowering blood sugar levels was halted because researchers found that lowering blood sugar levels actually caused great harm in people with type 2 diabetes. This study indicates that the practice of medicating diabetics to lower their blood sugar level is probably causing needless deaths while doing nothing to help patients, yet doctors continue to prescribe this type of medication.

I'm starting to wonder if we aren't going to read about similar studies of mental meds in the near future.
 
Correlation does not necessarily mean causation, but it certainly doesn't disprove causation. It seems like not a month goes by when some heart medication or diabetes medication isn't proven to be more damaging than the disease itself. For example, earlier this month a study in lowering blood sugar levels was halted because researchers found that lowering blood sugar levels actually caused great harm in people with type 2 diabetes. This study indicates that the practice of medicating diabetics to lower their blood sugar level is probably causing needless deaths while doing nothing to help patients, yet doctors continue to prescribe this type of medication.
By no means am I saying I would reject any evidence that there was a link, bring me quality stuff and I'll look at it. In the mean time though we sound like tom cruise style nuts when we say we think there's something fishy because a crazy person did a crazy thing and "coincidentally" was being treated for being crazy.
 
Article: Killer had troubled past..."new interest in guns"

According to this article the fact the shooter developed a recent interest in guns makes him "troubled"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23200851

He had spent time in a mental health center, had disturbing tattoos covering his arms and had developed a recent interest in guns.

I must be really troubled because I've had a long interest in guns.
 
I must be really troubled because I've had a long interest in guns.

Taken in context, it is a huge red flag. Obviously if someone has a new-found interest in guns with no other mental/personality changes, it's no big deal, but that's not the case here. Try not to focus so much on the guns aspect of it, and look at the picture that these changes were painting.
 
It's also very consistent with the folks who go into social work/mental health - a lot of them are fairly twisted, and go into the profession that they see is helping them.

My ex-mom-in-law the psychiatrist could be the poster child for supporting this theory.
 
Try not to focus so much on the guns aspect of it, and look at the picture that these changes were painting.

I have friends who have recently developed new intersts in guns, because they are stressed out and find shooting to be a stress reliever. Just becauase someone has a new interest in guns for no apparent reason doesn't strike me as a reason to red flag them. Some people just all of a sudden realize what they are missing out on, that doesn't mean they have mental problems.

Also its the way it is worded in the article, it makes it sound like the sudden interest in guns is a bad thing.
 
Certainly preachin' to the choir here, but a pretty powerful post today by one of our more articulate Texans (operator) at www.texaschlforum.com

HOW HIGH MUST THE BODY-COUNT GO?
Posted on February 16th, 2008 by Charles L. Cotton
There are many issues concerning which reasonable minds may differ. Should taxes be raised or lowered? Are we winning the war on terror? Is the Patriot Act unpatriotic? Should Texas school districts be able to start the fall semester before September 1st each year? Are local zoning ordinances too restrictive or too lenient? There are opinions, often strongly held opinions, on both sides of all of these issues and that’s a good thing. It forces all of us to defend our respective positions and in so doing, we reevaluate our beliefs and the facts supporting those beliefs. But there are some disputes that defy logic and reason. Some of those groundless disputes have tragic consequences.

School shootings are rare, as are shootings in churches, malls and anywhere else would-be mass murderers can find a target-rich environment. However, extensive media coverage of these events is having an impact and it is not a beneficial impact. The number of such shootings though small are increasing. Consider also that people who commit mass murders tend to be suicidal; as the military and police say, “they have no exit strategy.” That a fancy way of saying they have come to kill and to die themselves. That is terrifying!

We can all scratch our collective heads and try to fathom why Charles Carl Roberts, IV would walk into an Amish girls school and start shooting innocent children killing five (Oct. 2, 2006); or why Seung-Hui Cho killed thirty-two people and wounded seventeen more at Virginia Tech (April 16, 2007); or why Stephen Kazmierczak, a twenty-seven year old “very good student” walked into Northern Illinois University (Feb. 15, 2008) and killed six students? The mystery behind these murderers’ motives probably will never be fully understood, but we know precisely why they selected their respective venues to do their random killing. Every one of these events took place in an allegedly “gun free zone.”

Many have stopped using the “gun free zone” euphemism choosing to more accurately label these areas “gun free victim zones.” This term is more than just a catchy phrase, or a great sound bite for those pushing to remove legal restrictions that make such mass murders possible. It is a supremely accurate description of the places where we send our children and college age sons and daughters to learn. We owe it to them, to their children and to ourselves to remove the human hunting grounds legislatively created.

As any trial attorney knows, one element of a civil lawsuit that must be proven in court is “causation.” Often, this issue is far from clear and very difficult to prove. But the “causation” element in recent mass murders is as obvious as the proverbial “nose on your face.” Roberts, Cho, Kazmierczak and all of the other school shooters chose their locations for one reason and one reason only – they were “gun free victim zones.” Have you ever heard of someone trying to do this at a police station, a military base, or perhaps a shooting range? It doesn’t take a doctorate in sociology or psychology to understand why these murderers choose schools; they are legislatively created killing fields. In each state where these tragedies occurred, state law prohibited citizens licensed to carry handguns from bringing those defensive firearms into the schools. They could carry them virtually everywhere else, except of course in Illinois, but not in schools. In their infinite wisdom, elected officials apparently determined that otherwise responsible, law-abiding citizens would be transformed into dangerous would-be murders. What lunacy!

Thankfully, there are dedicated elected officials who are working hard to bring an end to the easy target zone others have created and jealously maintain. Texas Governor Perry announced shortly after the Virginia Tech tragedy that all Texans with Concealed Handgun Licenses (CHLs) should be able to carry their guns anywhere in Texas. Finally, a voice of reason; someone showing true compassion and concern for human life, rather than spouting a political mantra. Another state senator willing to take up the cause is Indiana State Senator Johnny Nugent who sponsored SB356 that would have allowed all Indiana CHLs to carry defensive handguns on any State property, including universities. This bill failed by one vote on February 7, 2008. In view of the Northern Illinois University shooting eight days later, one must wonder how many Indiana Senators would like to have that vote back? Senator Nugent’s words must still be ringing in their ears:

“Criminals love to operate in areas where guns are outlawed, because they know their victims are defenseless. This bill is about safety and restoring Hoosiers’ right to self-defense no matter where they are. It simply isn’t right that, as a lawmaker, I am permitted to carry a handgun at the Statehouse, but members of our staff or citizens with valid carry permits cannot. Prohibiting them from carrying a weapon for which they have a legal permit is not acceptable and the law needs to be changed.”

Thank you Senator Nugent.

Often debate on bills involves some speculation or prognostication as to the effect of a change in the law. In this instance, no speculation is required. People are dying in “gun free victim zones” and the media is unwittingly increasing the danger by giving attention-starved murderers their fifteen minutes of fame. Contrast these shootings with the events at New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado where, on December 9, 2007, Matthew Murray walked into the church planning yet another mass murder. Fortunately for the congregation, Colorado CHL holder Jeanne Assam, a volunteer member of the Church’s security team, was present with her handgun. She shot Murray, limiting the death toll to two, with three wounded. Although the media tried to skew public opinion concerning Ms. Murray by referring to her as a former police officer, she had not worn a badge in over ten years. As she herself noted, she was an armed citizen doing what was right to save lives. And save lives she did. At the time of the shooting, there were about 7,000 people on the church grounds. Colorado Springs Police Chief Richard Myers described Ms. Assam as, “a courageous security staff member who probably saved many lives.”

The issue is clear and there can be no intellectually honest debate. “Gun free school zones” are killing people in alarming numbers and we are long past the time when the law must be changed. This issue will come up in the Texas Legislature in the 2009 Legislative Session and our elected officials need to follow the lead of Texas Governor Rick Perry and Indiana Senator Johnny Nugent. We trust CHLs to carry defensive handguns virtually everywhere else in the State; it’s time to say lives are just as valuable on university campuses as they are off campus.

To those who oppose this change I ask, how high must the body-count go, before you put politics and prejudice aside and vote to save lives?

Chas.

Edited to add: Direct link to Charles' blog: http://www.texaschlblog.com/
 
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George29 wrote:

Quote:
It's also very consistent with the folks who go into social work/mental health - a lot of them are fairly twisted, and go into the profession that they see is helping them.

My ex-mom-in-law the psychiatrist could be the poster child for supporting this theory.


More truth to that than you may realize. It's no wonder that you meet a lot of drug and alcohol addiction counselors who are also recovering addicts. It helped them, and they bought into it so deeply that they embraced it as a career.


My sister is another "poster child" supporting that theory.

She changed from law school to become a psychologist after going into treatment for anorexia and bulimia. Don't get me wrong. I'm proud of my sister, and the profession was MEANT for her. But I do recognize how her choices came together.


-- John
 
A few weeks ago Congress passed and W signed the Veterans Disarament act. This act prohibits veterans and CIVILIANS who have been deemed mentally incompetent from owning firearms. My point is this law didn't prevent this shooting. Why wasn't the buyer flagged as a mental case and dis-qualified from purchase when the back ground check was performed?

I think you still have to be court adjudicated mentally incompetent to lose your RKBAs - or have been diagnosed in the military with PTSD. If you voluntarily check yourself into a mental hospital I believe (I could be wrong on this, though) you do not lose your rights because you made this choice and sought help. I am not aware of hospitals having to report that someone admitted themselves because they were suicidal. I think privacy laws cover this. Otherwise, nobody would ever seek help for mental illness for fear of losing their rights and potentially become mass murderers when they may not have if they sought medical help.

I also think this needs to be put into perspective, and how your odds of dying in a car accident or drowning in a pool are still way higher. Yes, this is a terrible tragedy and no doubt the media and politicians will play it to the hilt, but this is an exceptionally rare way to die.

I do think out culture with all the violence on TV and in video games, together with kids being put on meds for the slightest misbehavior, let alone actual mental illness, plays a role in this as this did not happen 50 years ago. The media attention also plays a role for copy cats. Did not have that type of mass media attention 50 years ago.
 
This act prohibits veterans and CIVILIANS who have been deemed mentally incompetent from owning firearms. My point is this law didn't prevent this shooting. Why wasn't the buyer flagged as a mental case and dis-qualified from purchase when the back ground check was performed?

nope, the law stipulates that you have to be INVOLUNTARILY committed to an institution... this guy wasnt ever in that situation... it does look like the guys parents had him sent to some sort of institution, but the guess is, that he walked in with his parents and signed himself in... it takes a judge to sign off on a commitment order for this law to take effect
 
These people make me so frustrated...

Article said:
"People do what they feel like they need to do, and I don't think anyone is going to be able to stop them. People will just have to either learn to live in fear ... or they'll just have to not think about it."

...

"You're scared to go to school lecture halls, and I'm going to be looking over my shoulder and skeptical of people coming to class late," said Allison Warren, a 20-year-old NIU student. "You kind of think it won't happen around here. It could happen anywhere ... and there's no way of really protecting yourself."

:cuss: :fire: :banghead:
 
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