Norway tragedy: politics proposing further gun control laws

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Norway will probably be just fine. The Norwegians have a strong firearms tradition involved with both hunting and sport shooting and, as has been mentioned by someone who should know, there are lots of guns already in civilian hands.

As far as weapons for self-defense, they may not have seen a pressing need for them. Even police shootings are rare: in the 10 years between 1994 and 2004, the entire Norwegian Police Service fired less than two boxes of ammo in the line of duty and one of those boxes was used in a single incident. In the past 50 years, eight Norwegian police officers have been killed by gunfire. The overall homicide rate in Norway through 2010 is 0.6 per 100,000 population; ours is 5.0. (the Czech Republic's is 1.94; in Slovakia, it's 1.74)

We need to quit judging them by our standards. While Norway, as it exists today, has been independent since 1905, its roots and traditions stretch back thousands of years. The country enjoys the highest human development index in the world, so they are apparently doing something that works for them, though we would probably call them socialists.

What I would worry about is our homegrown whackos, like the Brady Bunch and the VPC, and the anti-gun forces other European countries. Fortunately, Norway is the only Scandinavian country that isn't a member of the European Union. so the EU isn't able to force things on it.

Funny though, when governments commit mass murder, somehow it's okay and justified and no one is ever prosecuted.

That's because governments reserve the right to use force to themselves, supposedly because they will use it to protect the governed and maybe bring in some fresh cash through wars of conquest. Neat how that works, isn't it?
 
The country enjoys the highest human development index in the world, so they are apparently doing something that works for them, though we would probably call them socialists.

There is a certain amount of socialism there, and taxes are quie high. But then, so in median income.

My Aunt lives in Norway; When she visits, she loves to gloat about how well those services work. But it is easy to qwell her horn tooting when you point out the small population and relative lack of ethnic/religious/class diversity as compared to the United States. Socialized medicine might work OK in a country with 5 million Scandanavians, but it's a whole different ball of wax when you have 300 million people of every imaginable race, creed and nationality.

IMO, everything is relative. We enjoy more freedom than any other nation, but it comes at a cost. I'm at peace with that (and yes, my family has been survivors of homicides). Anyone who is not should leave rather than try to change us.

Besides which, Ultimately, the nations in which the population suffers the most henious acts have historically been those with the fewest personal freedoms. I don't see that trend changing.
 
that's right but Norwgians covered that to: after the 21 years, they can prolong it without trial with another 5 and again and again, until death if you are considered still a danger to society
 
The Norwegian terrorist will not get out in 21 years. He won't ever get out and will be busy keeping himself safe in prison.

Norway is unlike most of Europe in that they are a bit socialist leaning but understand the importance of community and being practical with resources. Being invaded and occupied by the Nazi's often does that, just ask Poland.

In this extremely rare case they were unprepared for a very, very determined madman who planned for years his many crimes around Norway's security and police. Most countries would be unprepared for this lone Timothy McVeigh style psychopath.

Considering that 2-10% (definitely varies by city, country, and recent trauma causing events) of the 6 billion people on this planet are "crazy and or psychopaths" it's a little surprising this doesn't happen in more countries. I'm sure many countries cover things up (China, Soviet Russia, North Korea, etc..) and keep them out of the media. Heck..., Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin, Mao, were high functioning psychopaths who seized political power.

Weapons aren't so much the problem as evil psychopaths and sociopaths are.
The whole world needs more mental health care. Not gun control. Treat the disease, not the symptom.

Meditation helps too.
 
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That Colson article was an interesting read.
I had almost forgotten about Colson until reading that.
Those Norweigian corrections people/psychiatrists would be in way over their heads with the violent offenders we have locked down here...Especially the ones on Death Row.
Glad we have the ability and will to keep them locked down here.
 
Those Norweigian corrections people/psychiatrists would be in way over their heads with the violent offenders we have locked down here...Especially the ones on Death Row.

Potty Training!

the cause of so many troubles in this world.
 
The is a new law that can hold him in prison fore 30 years. But i guess he will get 21 years in prison and then he will be held in custody for the rest of his life.
There is a lot of talk about the prison system in Norway criminals have it better than old folks living in a nursing home . So that's some thing we all know over here!
 
Chuck Colson ... links on a board like THR ....

What´s next?

#facepalm ...seriously.
 
They basically treat them all as if they were victims of mental illness who simply need more therapy.

Good and Evil are such old fashioned concepts.
What is their recidivism rate compared to other countries? If it is lower, examining the causes would be a worthwhile effort.

Or we could just gloss over the problem with a pithy quote.
 
Can you explain why gun control is bad and why explosives control is good?

Lack of practical purpose and ability to cause an extensive deal of harm perhaps. 6 tons? Come on, he should never been allowed to purchase that much.

Please explain to the rest of us how restricting firearm ownership from a class of people who are not criminals is not gun control.

And to take it further, what are "mental problems"? Depression? Anxiety? PTSD? How many doctors have to concurr with the diagnosis? Who decides which "problems" warrant forfeiture of 2A rights?

What I meant was more draconian gun control, such as bans, will make the country more dangerous. Yes, restricting firearms to the mentally ill is gun control. I know that's a slippery slope, but obviously there does exist people who are not mentally capable of responsibly owning firearms. I'm not psychologist, so I'm not going to list off mental disorders that should apply.
 
Chuck Colson ... links on a board like THR ....
What´s next?
#facepalm ...seriously.

+1 I think we can forego any discussion of the content in his article. Until we see any verification from secondary sources of anything he said, it's highly suspect to me. I find it highly doubtful that he knew any murdered Norwegian correctional officer. Let's keep the discussion to possible greater gun control in Norway (and other European countries as the OP was from Belgium) and not source articles that say the terrorist attack was the result of Norway being "sinful and secular." :rolleyes:

If the shooter had known this would be societies´reaction, he would have probably shot himself instead.
The BBC had some footage of an interview with Anders Breivik's father who said he wishes his son would have just shot himself instead:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14288184
 
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the weapon used in this attack came as somewhat of a shock to me. when i heard from mainstream media that the attacker used a Machine gun the first thing that popped into my head was "bologna" (heh well paraphrasing to be plolite) so i did a bit of sleuthing and digging until i came across his manifesto. i started reading before i realized that this man was insane and that the words were hurting my brain.

so i stopped and went to find a condensed, less insane, summary of his 1500 page rip off of the uni-bomber. i found said source and did a bit of research only to find that he had used a Ruger Mini 14 chambered in .223 i was stunned, and actually he had really kitted it out. he opted for a barrel clamp on picatinny rail system with a laser on one side and a flashlight on the other, on the bottom was a combination bi-pod and fore-grip. On top he was running an EOtech 552 holographic sight with a 3x magnifier, some serious glass.

but, and this is a major but, it is NOT in any way shape or form a machine-gun or military rifle. it is missing two key components a Flash hider and a pistol grip. if it had those it could be considered an assault weapon, as it sits in the police vault it's a "tacti-cool" monstrosity. seriously google Anders Behring Breivik Mini 14 you'll see what i mean.
 
The OP was asked and answered a while back ,and we have strayed into topics of mental health and somesuch that are not appropriate for THR.

Let's let this one go, ok?
 
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