Nothing but Gouging

[rickomatic]

"Gouging. No

People trying to rip others off, Yes"

Perfectly said.

Howabout a little bit of "caveat emptor"?. Anyone who buys some of this stuff at these prices is just plain uninformed, or silly, or "chicken little". Sheesh.....Since when were we all guaranteed cheap ammo and guns? I have a sneaky suspicion that most of the whiners here are people who are either fairly new to the shooting game, or just decided to get the latest and greatest hottest "got to have" gun out there. (Read: Keltec 3-AT, or Ruger LCP). No wonder there isn't any .380 to be had out there. It was hard to find Cabbage Patch Kids when everyone and their brother wanted one too! Like every other "shortage" we've seen, this too shall pass. I'm sorry if some newbies got caught with their pants down and didn't see enough ahead to plan ahead. I've got a couple .380's too. They will sit until the ammo supply comes back. And it WILL. In the meantime, I'll shoot the guns that I have ammo for. And I will be more conservative with my shooting. No blasting off full magazines full or bump firing exhibitions.
You know. If the only defensive weapon I had was a .380, and I couldn't find any ammo for less than $500 a box...I'd buy a box. What's worth more? Your safety and security, or your self righteous indignation?
Sorry........not High Road. But I had to get it off my chest.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

I'm really scratching my head over this thread, Let me spin a scenario again,

Used 950.00 Olympic Arms AR, that is overpriced. Why is it wrong to say that?

 

[jcwit]

Can any imagine what a gas hording situtation would be like if people could hord fuel like they do ammo?

People hording ammo and components that are 1 to 2 years "and more" supply. Can you comprehend what this would be like if this was fuel.

The amount of selfishness some people have is beyond the pale. Reminds me of the days back in the 50's when some people built bomb shelters and claimed they would meet their next door neighbor with a rifle and kill him.

Am I whining, in my mind I don't believe so I just stating a fact of some folks with a terrible attidude. But this attidude and thinking has been growing and growing in America over the last few decads.

Remember get yours and to HELL with the rest.
BTW I'm not part of the rest.

 

[PT1911]

I've been in retail well over thirty years, and I hear this repeatedly. Anybody making a profit is "ripping people off".

I wouldnt say you were ripping people off at all.. as long as you were maintaining the same practices you always had.. however, if you maintain a 25% mark up on your products for years and then, since something is more desired you mark it up 60,70, or more percent than you, my friend, just decided to join in in ripping people off... I have no problem with making a profit, some of my closest friends run a gun shop, but they consistently work with the same mark-up from their wholesale price... used and trade in guns are priced at their current value...

 

[dbarile]

So we don't want gun control, but we want price control.

So we want selective freedom?

 

[Albatross]

I don't recall reading anyone's calls for laws to be passed. They are just complaining about the state of things (which sucks I'm getting very low on .22lr).

Calling people socialists for desiring/demanding cheaper prices is ridiculous. Customer complaints/desires are the driving force of the free market. Everyone wants to pay less and get more value. The seller that delivers the best product with the lowest price dominates every market and people voicing their desire for lower prices is a good thing and certainly not contemptible.

 

[divemedic]

So all of you complaining: If you put your house up for sale, are you gonna limit yourself to a 25% markup, even if you get offers for twice what you paid for your home? If you had an auction on Ebay or Gunbroker, will you take the lowest bidder, or the highest? Or does your conscience about 'gouging' only apply when you are the buyer?

 

[pith43]

I don't recall reading anyone's calls for laws to be passed. They are just complaining about the state of things

and complaining, and complaining, and complaining, and complaining, and complaining, and complaining, and complaining......

 

[Prion]

No, not complaining, just waiting patiently to buy some of these guns when the prices drop and the market floods. "quick sell now before the prices get any lower! I'll sell you my AK for $400! Wait, I'll sell mine for $350! No take mine I've got to get rid of it before we run out of customers, $300!" Soon it's gonna be a buyer shortage. Sit on your wallet, buy the ammo you need, guns that are priced right, and just wait, sweet deals are coming!

 

[dbarile]

I don't recall reading anyone's calls for laws to be passed. They are just complaining about the state of things (which sucks I'm getting very low on .22lr).

Calling people socialists for desiring/demanding cheaper prices is ridiculous. Customer complaints/desires are the driving force of the free market. Everyone wants to pay less and get more value. The seller that delivers the best product with the lowest price dominates every market and people voicing their desire for lower prices is a good thing and certainly not contemptible.

Addressing me? I don't believe I used the word socialist.

What I did do was ask question for those complaining about the current market value (and complaining, and complaining). The only way to roll prices back other than time and the market forces, is price controls. Which 2A supporter wants that?

Supply and demand is the driving force of the free market, not customer complaints. If the complaint I hear daily were driving the market AK's would be 2 for $25. People complain loudly, but they still buy and record numbers and that is demand. Currently supply is lower than demand so prices are higher. In November I purchased ammo for what I consided the market rate. It is $100 dollars higher now. Free market in action.

I seriously hope, for my own selfish reasons, that the production of new rifles etc. momentarily at least swamps the market. Supply will outstrip demand and prices will drop.

I do like the fact that at the last gun show I was at, AK's & SKS's were sitting at the tables and no one seemed to be touching them. I hope this continues.

I like the guy who said "sit on your wallets".

 

[Wes Janson]

I wouldnt say you were ripping people off at all.. as long as you were maintaining the same practices you always had.. however, if you maintain a 25% mark up on your products for years and then, since something is more desired you mark it up 60,70, or more percent than you, my friend, just decided to join in in ripping people off... I have no problem with making a profit, some of my closest friends run a gun shop, but they consistently work with the same mark-up from their wholesale price... used and trade in guns are priced at their current value...

Let's say that my inventory consists of 100 Widgets. I pay $10 per Widget, and sell them for $15. Every month I sell 30 widgets-one per month, for a profit of $150. Every month I buy 30 more widgets for $10 each.

Now let's say that the market has gone bat**** crazy, and people are willing to throw their grandmothers off of medium-to-tall-ish buildings in order to get their hands on a Widget. My source of Widgets has dried up, and now I can only get 10 Widgets per month.

If I hold my prices constant, I'll sell my entire inventory of 100 Widgets within the first week, and make $500. But, I'll be totally out of Widgets for the next three weeks, and the following month when my next shipment comes in, I'll only be able to sell 10, for a profit of $50. Month two, three, four, etc will also see a profit of $50 each, which means I'm making one-third of the money I used to make, and ergo that I'm going to go out of business. The market will eventually recover from the hangover, but by then I'll be delivering pizzas to support my mortgage and pay the back-owed store's rent from before the Widget Store closed, and won't really give a damn.

In scenario two, I raise the prices on my Widgets to keep people from buying everything instantaneously. Priced at $25 per Widget, now they sell at a rate of 30 per month. I'm making $450 the first month, but will eventually "run out" in about five months. Hopefully sometime before then people will stop fighting over Widgets and the supply/demand levels will balance out a bit. Otherwise I'm still going to run out of Widgets.

Now replace Widgets with PMC .380 ACP FMJ 50-round boxes, and you'll have a pretty good picture of the situation. Except that at $25 per, you run out in approximately three hours. And you don't get 10 boxes per month, you get nothing past the first month; resupply is currently indefinite and unknown. Sounds like an evil business, doesn't it?

 

[conw]

Larry Ashcraft wrote:

I've been in retail well over thirty years, and I hear this repeatedly. Anybody making a profit is "ripping people off".

Sorry, I was just feeding my family by making a fair profit. I know in today's climate, "profit" is an obscene word, but I won't make any apologies.

"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
Seems like this would fit a lot of the thought processes here.

Sometimes, you members who think you are "freedom fighters", but continue to hold on to your socialist ideas, make me sick.

Come on Larry, "gouging" implies people want something to be done about it legally, which I disagree with. But there are a lot of rip-off deals out there right now on ammo, etc. People buy them and I think they're getting ripped off. I'm a capitalist through and through and through, and I reserve the right to say people are getting ripped off when I think they are.

Being a free market capitalist doesn't mean you can't call a spade a spade. Now, I don't think you should be able to sue someone who "overcharged" for ammo, or pass a law. And more power to the people turning a profit...but someone is getting ripped off somewhere as we speak

It's a feature or a bug depending on who you ask, and I'm fine with that. But to censure people (that's not a typo, I didn't mean censor) for expressing an honest opinion - those who are NOT calling for legal action, but are merely saying those who are vocal about being unwilling paying X dollars for whatever product are socialist - is not very thoughtful.

Guess what? Free market scenario: someone out there reads one of these posts saying "I would never pay $38/50 .380 rounds, I am going to wait until prices fall" and waits to buy it...THAT is more free market wonderment right there, because they (and the post they read) are helping drive down prices...it's not a one-way street...

 

[mbt2001]

Free market scenario: someone out there reads one of these posts saying "I would never pay $38/50 .380 rounds, I am going to wait until prices fall" and waits to buy it...THAT is more free market wonderment right there, because they (and the post they read) are helping drive down prices...it's not a one-way street...

I don't see Seller's on boards talking about how the "buyer's" are DESTROYING the market or equally provocative accusations.

 

[Wes Janson]

I don't see Seller's on boards talking about how the "buyer's" are DESTROYING the market or equally provocative accusations.

Funny, but that's not too far from what I've been saying.

If nothing else, I've heard of dealers going out of business for lack of any inventory to sell.

 

[jaholder1971]

The prices have been going up from the DISTRIBUTORS and that is because with the fear of a ban, you have to price in the likely hood that you will 1.) be out of business or 2.) lose your money and have guns on order for sale that you CAN NO LONGER SELL.

Tell that to the dealers who had $700 AR's on November 3rd and the same AR's for $1500 the day after the election.

Your business model sounds like something outta GM's executive team. Good luck with it.

 

[RP88]

a POTENTIAL ban that may not happen, at least not for a couple of years

but it can still certainly happen. And the fact that it may be inevitable makes it a smart deal to sit on them for a high price until the threat is over, right?

Just like, despite our world working to ensure atrocities like the holocaust never happen, there are still alot of people trying to kill the Jews as I type this. Plotting, planning, devoting, waiting.

The same mentality applies to the devout anti-gunners. Plotting, planning, devoting, waiting.

it's gonna come up in congress eventually - regardless of whether or not it passes, and you will find yourself pushing the gamble of either waiting for the bill to fail and the prices to fall, or wishing that you paid only $600 for a gun you won't ever see again for under $1500

in all honesty, I wish I could get away with and had money for stockpiling gasoline right now along with guns and ammo

 

[conw]

mbt, I'm not sure what you're getting at. I agreed with your previous posts. I am pro-capitalism, point being that no one (except Congress) could possibly destroy the market. But the profit that the guy selling goods makes is no more noble or deserved than the money that a guy like me saves by holding out. I mean, we both deserve to profit, save, scrimp, or waste money as we choose. That's a free market. Just because someone is capitalizing on a situation does not make them a more devout capitalist than someone who says "Ya know, I'll pass because I don't want to pay that much. Further, I'll express my frustration on these message boards." Now, when that frustration is misguided and expressed in a way that frustrates other people, they also have a right to speak up.

But I don't see exactly how/why you were disagreeing with me.

 

[10-Ring]

Yes, I agree that prices have gone up & it's tough on everyone. But I guess I truely believe in supple & demand more than the next guy b/c I don't believe this is gouging -- gouging is when a shop raises the prices of necessities for profit (for items like bread, water, baby formula, etc). Since firearms aren't necessarily required for everyone to survived, this is more a scenario in which market forces are at work.

 

[starkadder]

It's the same as the argument over "offensive" song lyrics on the radio, "gratuitous violence" on television, and imported merchandice sold by American companies; TUNE IN ANOTHER STATION, CHANGE THE CHANNEL, SHOP SOMEWHERE ELSE, AND DON'T PAY WHAT THEY ARE ASKING! :banghead:

A fair number of the people complaning only decided they want one of these weapons because someone told them that they may be told that they can't have one, and if that is thier reasoning I would rather them not have an AR or AK or any other firearm because of lack of experience, training, and or self control.

If TSHTF for real (and I pray to god it never does)I would rather not have a bunch of untrained, inexperienced "gunslingers" on the loose with this type of hardware, but that's just my opinion, and I'm sure that will not make me alot of friends.


This is this! It's not something else, it's this.

Don't pull it if you don't plan to use it, and don't use it if you don't plan to kill!

Always remember our men and women over there.

 

[conw]

gouging is when a shop raises the prices of necessities for profit (for items like bread, water, baby formula, etc

In that case, gouging is beneficial.

-prevents stockpiling, ensuring those who need it can get it (rather than the first customers who show up buying everything)
-draws more goods and providers into area more quickly. (Scenario: Katrina-like devastation. Everything dries up. If you mandate "normal" prices, guess what? No suppliers bring stuff in, therefore everyone gets screwed over)


The real question...would you rather have goods available at a "gouged" price...or no goods available at all, because the price was capped?

 

[BhmBill]

$800 Mak90's?

Yeahhhh... They were barely worth the $400 I paid for mine a few years ago, they certainly aren't worth double that now.

Prices WILL fall, idk when though. People will realize that an AWB is pretty unlikely anytime soon and the scare will die down.

 

[flynlr]

Tell that to the dealers who had $700 AR's on November 3rd and the same AR's for $1500 the day after the election.

so? you either pay it or not. your choice.

 

[divemedic]

If people were not paying those prices, the dealers would either lower them until they sold, or go out of business. Just because YOU don't think an AR is worth $1,500 doesn't mean the rest of his customers don't. The market price is what the market is willing to pay. Since the shelves are bare, and any incoming stock sells before it is even put on the shelf, I would say that the prices on ammo are not high enough, and are going to go even higher.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Nothing but Gouging

I don't think that word means what you think it means or understand the circumstances of the current run on guns and ammo.

Why should dealers (or anyone else) not get FMV for their firearms. FMV is what the market will bear and since we are not at war or in some sort of critical circumstance where firearms are needed right now (as with generators right after the hurricances), it is FMV, not gouging.

 

[pith43]

People buy them and I think they're getting ripped off

It really makes no difference what anybody else thinks, if the buyer thinks it's worth it.... it's worth it.

The biggest problem with capitalism, is that a few, select people get rich, a few go broke, and the vast majority do pretty well (a high tide raises all ships). Socialists can't stand to see anyone get rich, so they would take from the rich, to redistribute amoungst the needy (and themselves). This lowers the vast majority of ships, but, by god, no one got rich ( except those at the top)

Another problem with capialism is Risk. There are always johnny-come-latelys that will loose their shirts by paying too high prices and then the maket turns. But it is theirs to risk. Or they will be right, and they will own that high priced EBR, before the ban and those that didn't pony up will be left out in the cold.

People will get rich, people will loose everything... I'm ok with that, thats the American Dream. The alternative sucks, socialism has never worked the history of the world.

Or you can just bitch......bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch,bitch