NRA response to NOPD's illegal/unconstitutional anti-2A actions

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50 Freak, maybe you are doing all you can do but the vast majority of Cali gun owners aren't.
I said before that if a couple million of the estimated 13.5 million Cali gun owners joined the NRA, the anti gun Cali politicians would be running for cover.
Heck if they just voted..............

"The bottom line is gun owners could own California if they vote."

http://www.gunnewsdaily.com/rw509.html
 
50 Freak, maybe you are doing all you can do but the vast majority of Cali gun owners aren't.
I said before that if a couple million Cali gun owners joined the NRA, the anti gun Cali politicians would be running for cover.
Heck if they just voted..............
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You are correct in that. California firearms owners need to vote en bloc. However, we are vastly outnumbered by the hoplophobes; especially in government positions. My complaint with the NRA is, though they are the preeminent firearms rights organization, they appear to have 'written off' California as a lost cause (in some cases, rightly so). Quite frankly, we could use a little more of their political clout out here.

I yearn for the day when I see an NRA sponsored media blitz, with all the trimmings out here in sunny California. I don't think I ever will.
 
Rex, I know nothing about business finance and even less about the NRA's operation but I would think a business, and the NRA must be run run like a business, has to spend money where it will do the most good.

Considering that the figures seem to show that of the 13+ million Cali gun owners only something way less than 10% bother to vote and probably a very small number are supporting the NRA, the NRA spending a lot of time and money in Cali would be a waste of resources. Resources that would be better spent where the gun owners have a chance of unseating anti gun politicians.

You know the old, help them that help themselves.
The heck with the NRA, get a big chunk of those Cali gun owners in a CRA and take back the state. :)
 
Montana looks better and better every day. I remind you folks, NRA or non-NRA, we're all on the same team, here.
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You know what? We can use all the pro-gun people you can send here because the anti-gun Californians are coming here at an alarming rate as well. I see more and more granola eating hippies and soccor moms here every day, I swear. Please. Come to Montana. And bring your shooting buddies.
 
Ask Al Gore how ineffective the NRA is. Even Bill Clinton said the biggest mistake he ever made was taking on the NRA. Californians, why is it that the people in so many other States have been able to elect politicians that are making it possible to obtain carry permits and you cannot? Was it the NRA doing it for them, grow up.
 
Thank you for providing me with another opportunity to post my little link showing the effectiveness of the NRA.

The NRA was instrumental last year in keeping the AWB from being renewed when Dems slipped it into the first bill that would provide lawsuit protection for the firearms industry.

http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/siliconvalley/1805Results.html

Note in particular this quote from Feinstein (speaking of the NRA):
"I'm a bit numb ... They had the power to turn around at least 60 votes in the Senate. That's amazing to me."

- Senator Feinstein as quoted in the NY Times 3/3/04
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"I'm a bit numb ... They had the power to turn around at least 60 votes in the Senate. That's amazing to me."

- Senator Feinstein as quoted in the NY Times 3/3/04
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Wow, I never saw that quote.

Come on guys, join up.

You don't have to agree with the NRA all the time.
I don't, I'm one of their biggest critics, but I realise the NRA is the only effective organization slowing our continued loss of gun rights, simply because of their size.

If nothing else just add yourself to the NRA numbers.
Just think how afraid the "Feinsteins" would be of a eight million member NRA.

I'll never live to see it but I would bet the farm if there were ten million NRA members the left wing antigun liberal politician would be a thing of the past. :D
 
Montana looks better and better every day. I remind you folks, NRA or non-NRA, we're all on the same team, here.
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we're all on the same team- perhaps.

but some of us are paying for all the uniforms, equipment and the team bus while a bunch are faking injuries on the sidelines.

ok maybe that analogy was a bit extreme- but you know what I mean.
 
Wow, when did The High Road turn into Romper Room? :rolleyes:
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And you stayed on the High Road yourself? All you're doing is bitching and complaining that some else isn't helping you enough. High Road indeed.
 
Quote,
No_Brakes23
The NRA sold us out in California on the issue of the Handgun Safety Certificate by agreeing to restrictions the gun-grabbers weren't even asking for. Like removing the veteren's exemption, for example. Thanks NRA.

Oh and M2 Carbine...

Quote:
antigun liberal politician

No such animal exists.
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Call them whatever you want, they are anti gun liberals to me.
But the fact is the Cali gun owners could get rid of them but are too lazy to vote.

Blame the NRA all you want but the 13+ million Cali gun owners are their own problem.

How in the world can you expect the NRA or any pro gun organization to help a state's gun owners if they won't even take an hour to vote for a pro gun candidate if he does run?

A pro gun candidate knows he can't win in Cali and doesn't bother to run, he knowns the gun owners won't support him.
 
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Regarding California and the NRA, I see both points. As in a lot of things in life, the truth is closer to the middle of these extremes here. I see that a lot of gun owners in Cali are despondent and demoralized, and also are a bit lazy and are usually very busy with making a living (see cost of living). More needs to be done there. I also see that the NRA is not doing enough advertising and positioning in Cali either; seemingly have become demoralized themselves and giving up a bit on politics there. Of course the NRA seems focused at the Federal level - which is a good thing. However I think a lot of Cali gun activists feel pretty much like they lost a lot of face over the .50 BMG ban, and the lack of jurisprudence force on the AWB in Cali still hanging. I am not here to say I know anything about NRA strategy. I don't know too much about NRA and how it operates.

Let me put some perspective numbers in. The current recorded population of California in 2003 is somewhere around 36,000,000. If there are 13,000,000 gun owners in California, that would only be around 36% percent of the population. So even if most gun owners voted the same way in Cali, and voted pro gun, they are still at a disadvantage. I would also say a lot of gun owners don't vote. I would also say that the leftists also push a lot harder and get the word out a lot more and better.

I think Cali is ripe for trying to convert more people to RKBA causes, but it's a hard hill to climb - hence why I agree with some others that the NRA is not out to keep out a big fight there since it will need to bear through some losses. It is leftist hallowed ground, but like some of you say - it's spreading to your town.

Strike at the root.
 
Hey,

Cali is pretty much written off as a "blue" anti-gun liberal state. Hell, the Republicans hardly even campaign here. (Arnold was a fluke by the way) In this state, we are outnumbered by all the freaking tree hugging soccer moms. But I don't know any statistic showing gun owners not voting in CA. Do you? I would therefore presume that our voting percentages mimic that of the rest of the nation. And admit guys, we are in the minority when it comes to RKBA issues.

So it goes back to my original arguement. We are surrounded by superior numbers and we have no backing from the NRA. How do you expect us to change this state?

On a smaller scale, I know for a fact I've changed the outlook of my wife's entire family. Before I married her, they thought guns should only be owned by the military or police. Slowly I converted them to the point they are saying the SF handgun ban is stupid and they wouldn't vote for that. Plus, I take out as many people remotely interested in guns to the range and convert them over to the "dark side". So far, 23 converts. :evil:

I hope there is a freaking Katrina event here (without all the death and destruction of course :D ) to wake up the citizenry here to just how vulnerable they are. That's the only way I can see this state changing.
 
That's correct. I misstated that a little, I mean that probably LIKE most voters in CA, they don't vote a lot, i.e. putting them into the normalized stats like general voting stats. One way or the other, 13 million still accounts to a minority position - using huge sweeping generalizations on voting RKBA = owning a gun and visa-versa.
 
The NRA was instrumental last year in keeping the AWB from being renewed when Dems slipped it into the first bill that would provide lawsuit protection for the firearms industry.
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The NRA was perfectly willing to allow the AWB to be renewed in exchange for liability protection for the gun manufacturers. It was the grass roots activism of GOA and satellites, combined with the word getting out via the internet, that put a halt to it. The NRA cleverly claimed credit for it, but on the local level, they did almost nothing. This is a nation of three hundred million people, four million NRA members, some of whom might AGREE with the AWB, are not going to change the minds of legislators.

"NRA" is the generic term for gun rights advocates. They provide a convenient scapegoat for the Feinsteins, but their activism is lukewarm and their dedication to the Second Amendment pales when compared to their dedication to getting paid. What was the last bill that was backed by the NRA that INCREASED the liberty of Americans?

Stopgap measures and compromises mean that we still lose rights, just at a slower pace. Someone mentioned the NRA backing pro-gun control candidates. It's worse than that, they have advocated gun control. When the spokesperson for the NRA comes out against Americans owning "assault weapons" it tends to lead one to believe that the battle is lost.

Not too many remember anymore when the NRA sold out Neal Knox, or when they abandoned the 2A fight while they moved to their luxurious new office building.
 
50 Freak, My friend I'm sorry. I do understand.

I was lucky and excaped from Maryland 40 years ago. :)
 
M2 Carbine and all the others out there fully supporting the NRA, +1 to each of you.

I live in CA and am a life member of the NRA. Why you ask?

I AM THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT GOES ON IN MY STATE, but I fully support the NRA's efforts and views. Period.

There are so many gun owners in this state that just do not get off their repsective asses and make a difference. Too many times I have heard "What can I do? The NRA does not even try to help us." Get all your shooting buddies to vote! We could turn this state around in one election if we all banded together and voted the crooks out of office. Are there a lot of granola eating tree huggers in CA? Hell yeah, but I bet a lot of them do not vote either. Why should they. Most gun owners do not vote, so the tree huggers have nothing to worry about.

Some of you sound like people in NO asking why the guv'ment isn't helping them out. Instead, you are asking the same question but changing guv'ment to NRA.
 
if you look at the history of the Florida Castle bill you'll find the NRA missing. it was supported and passed by the Fla Sportsmans Association.
If you think of Florida as Miami = dade you're soo wrong.

AFS
 
And there's the point, the NRA gets credit for a lot of things they did not do from the pro-NRA crowd. They don't get a lot of the credit they deserve by the non-NRA member crowd. Some of you think that I am less of a gun owner because I don't give money to the NRA. I give my money to the GoA, all that I can afford, because they are more in-line with my ideals. I even send off a few bucks to the JPFO when I can. I also write letters, make calls and send e-mails to political leaders as well.

Now, are we supporting a class-based gun-owner system here? I.e., those with more disposable income and can spend more money on a certain group are better gun owners?

Most NRA members are content paying their dues and nothing else, yet some if us don't support the NRA, even if we mail our political leaders (which is arguably more effective) AND support another gun-rights organization, we're not supporting the RKBA as well as you are?

Because we spend the same percentage of our expendable income as you, or perhaps even more, only in different areas, you feel it is okay to call us "cheap" and we're less of a supporter of the RKBA?
 
50 Freak, My friend I'm sorry. I do understand.

I was lucky and excaped from Maryland 40 years ago.
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Ahhhh, Don't worry about me too much. I've got plenty of grandfathered ARs, Aks, FALs, 50's etc to keep me company. Feel sorry for the guys just starting to pick up this hobby/addiction. As for myself, I saw the writing on the wall and bought everything I pretty much wanted. Although, I still do want a mini vulcan gun....guess what, that's legal in Cali, but with a 10 round belt though unless you had one you kept in the closet (and would be grandfathered :rolleyes: ).

I'd escape too, but family and friends are pretty high up on my list of importance.
 
The NRA was perfectly willing to allow the AWB to be renewed in exchange for liability protection for the gun manufacturers. It was the grass roots activism of GOA and satellites, combined with the word getting out via the internet, that put a halt to it. The NRA cleverly claimed credit for it, but on the local level, they did almost nothing.
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I call BS.


From http://www.awbansunset.com/
Actually, the proposal enjoyed broad, bipartisan support in both chambers of Congress... it would have passed easily had the anti-gun amendments mentioned below not been added.
The 2004 bill was just as much a gift to the industry as proposed now. But its authors were directed by the National Rifle Association to sink it when two sensible gun-safety measures were added.

While it's easy to blame the NRA for the anti-gun movement's lack of success over the past decade or so, this sophomoric tactic ignores the fact that the NRA is nothing more than a group of American citizens banding together to make their voices heard, just like the AARP, The Sierra Club, and other organizations.

It is the 4+ million MEMBERS of the NRA, along with many millions of other gun owners, that make politicians reluctant to support anti-Second Amendment legislation.
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The NRA wins in Congress not because of any unfair advantage, he said. The association simply has a huge, motivated membership.
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Many Republicans and even more members of the National Rifle Association rejoiced when the ban was lifted. Many Democrats simultaneously expressed outrage, accusing Bush and the GOP of caving in to the NRA.
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From http://www.packing.org/oldnews/article/?article=9206

Sept. 5 Neal Knox Update -- Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) indicated at an off-the-recod meeting a couple of days ago that he thought the Senate would join the House in passing S. 659, the gun industry liability protection bill. I didn’t get to ask him if he expected a Feinstein amendment to be offered on the Commerce-Justice-State Appropriations bill.

Even if he had said when and how S. 659 would move, I couldn’t discuss it without permission of his staff. But it’s no secret that all sides of the debate believe that supporters of the gun industry bill probably have the 60 votes necessary to defeat the threatened Boxer-Schumer-Lautenberg filibuster – particularly since a lot of Senators received a pounding from gun owners during the August recess, as a result of widespread NRA mailings.
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from Keep and Bear Arms http://www.keepandbeararms.com/news/nl/read_comments.asp?nl=5821919200380&tmpD=3/3/2004
"In a move to exploit meaningful legislation designed to preserve the firearms industry, gun-ban activists in Congress slipped through 'poison pill' amendments, which would have resulted in draconian restrictions on the rights of law-abiding gun owners. As a result, the National Rifle Association (NRA) withdrew its support for final passage and the 'Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act,' S. 1805 amended was successfully defeated by a margin of 08-90."

"As NRA stated before S. 1805 was debated, this had to be a clean bill or we would not support it. While we will continue to work to save the U.S. firearms industry, we have said from the start that we would not allow this bill to become a vehicle for added restrictions on law-abiding Americans."

"Legislation to stop baseless lawsuits against the law-abiding American firearms industry has the support of the White House, the U.S. House of Representatives, countless conservation, commerce and union groups, and the American people. It is unfortunate that some in Congress are more interested in undermining the rights of law-abiding gun owners than in passing meaningful legislation."

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Thank you for helping kill this gun-control laden monster, NRA!
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If you still don’t get it, I’ll be glad to provide more evidence.

If you have evidence to the contrary, please present and document it.
 
Wow there sure is a lot to this thread. First, it sure was hard to read through this thread. I don't know where half of those rants were coming from and I am surprised this thing wasn't locked down early on.

As far as California goes, I am paying towards a life membership for the NRA, but I would rather spend my money at the CRPA. Its true, the NRA sort of writes us off. Now, you non-Californian guys and gals can act like you know what is going on, but in reality, you don't. We are severely outnumbered here. There are a lot of numbers flying around this thread, but I haven't seen a single source to backk up any of these numbers. And even if we got gun owners to show up, the problem is most of the gun owners all live in the same districts and those districts vote conservative. However, there are so many non-conservative districts we are severely outnumbered. So even if we organized and got them out, we are still pretty much screwed. That doesn't mean I can't be in the NRA. That doesn't mean I can't be in the Friends of the NRA. That doesn't mean I can't write and keep trying.

Just cut the "only if you guys would..." crap because you don't know what it is like here. We know what we need to do. We know what it is like to continuously vote and lose out. We don't need smug know it alls from other states to rub it in our faces. And just remember that if all the good gun owners leave, you can get used to having 2 anti senators and about 35-40 anti congresspersons continue to try and spread their idea of utopia to you free states. Hopefully you will continue to have a majority in Congress. If you lose it, guess who is going to bring these brilliant ideas up and who will help ram-rod them through? We need to work together no matter what state we live in and when you try to tell me what I need to do when you don't know the situation, it doesn't make me a happy camper and makes me care less about your state. We don't need that.

As far as the NRA goes on this, I am pleasantly surprised. I think they must have received a lot of calls and messages on this to come out so strong so quickly. Nice.
 
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