NutNFancy - Sig P250 - "Hall of Fame" Gun

[WinThePennant]

Yup - NutNFancy has officially declared the P250 to be a "Hall of Fame" handgun.

And, I agree.

I've had the FS P250 9mm for about a year now, and it is an absolutely lights-out accurate pistol. 100% reliable.

People hate the DAO trigger, but I'm here to tell you that it's the BEST DAO EVER. If you hate the P250's trigger, then you just hate DAO triggers (which is 100% okay, btw).

NutNFancy's review: http://youtu.be/OnCxJbxlikw

 

[Okiegunner]

P250

Question...What would be a "good" price to pay for the P250? Best quoted to me so far is $369.00

 

[Telekinesis]

Really? The Sig 250 is a gun worthy of a position in a "hall of fame"? PLEASE tell me this is satire!

The Sig 250 has repeatedly failed to be adopted by ANY agency which has included it in their trials including ATF and the Dutch police. The findings of the ATF trials concluded that the gun was unreliable and instead of trying to fix the gun, Sig challenged the methodology of the trial's decision! (Here)

The only sure contract Sig had for the 250 was with the Dutch police, but after several failed attempts, redesigns and subsequent failures, the department cancelled the contract.

"Unfortunately after the negative result of the fourth test round we conclude that Sig-Sauer cannot deliver the promised quality in serial production."
"There is no longer sufficient trust in the quality of the gun, nor in the ability of the manufacturer to improve and mantain the quality of the weapon."

I find it hard to believe that anyone could claim that this gun is worthy of high praise, especially in comparison to other pistols which have dominated the military, police, and civilian protection game for decades.


If a link to another forum would be ok, here is the citation for the Dutch side of things. The only reason I want to link to the forum is because it provides a translation for an original document (also linked to the thread) that is not in English. If anyone here can translate Dutch, please feel free to point out any errors...

And I'm probably not the best person to say this, but before calling the P250 trigger the best DAO ever, go and try a nice worked up S&W revolver. Those things are great!

 

[Inebriated]

Really? The Sig 250 is a gun worthy of a position in a "hall of fame"? PLEASE tell me this is satire!

The Sig 250 has repeatedly failed to be adopted by ANY agency which has included it in their trials including ATF and the Dutch police. The findings of the ATF trials concluded that the gun was unreliable and instead of trying to fix the gun, Sig challenged the methodology of the trial's decision! (Here)

The only sure contract Sig had for the 250 was with the Dutch police, but after several failed attempts, redesigns and subsequent failures, the department cancelled the contract.
Quote:
"Unfortunately after the negative result of the fourth test round we conclude that Sig-Sauer cannot deliver the promised quality in serial production."
"There is no longer sufficient trust in the quality of the gun, nor in the ability of the manufacturer to improve and mantain the quality of the weapon."
I find it hard to believe that anyone could claim that this gun is worthy of high praise, especially in comparison to other pistols which have dominated the military, police, and civilian protection game for decades.


If a link to another forum would be ok, here is the citation for the Dutch side of things. The only reason I want to link to the forum is because it provides a translation for an original document (also linked to the thread) that is not in English. If anyone here can translate Dutch, please feel free to point out any errors...

And I'm probably not the best person to say this, but before calling the P250 trigger the best DAO ever, go and try a nice worked up S&W revolver. Those things are great!

Have you ever used the gun? I'm doubting it. You mention no personal experience. To say it ISN'T worthy of praise without even using the gun is a rather bold move, wouldn't you agree?

I've got 800 through my Compact .45 with zero failures. And the trigger, as far as DAO is concerned, is better than any equally-priced revolver, and better than a lot of other more expensive revolvers. Light, smooth, and predictable. The break is also fairly clean, though leaves a little to be desired. I have no problem recommending the gun to anyone looking for a "point-shoot" type of gun. It's also more comfortable in the hand than any of my Glocks or the P220.

 

[Psa1m144]

Have you ever used the gun? I'm doubting it.

He may not have used the gun but he is quoting more reliable sources than 1 single persons experience. It's called research and it sounds like he has done a fine job of it. If multiple agencies have decided that the gun is not reliable there must be a bit of truth to it. I'm not saying that all of the p250's are bad, just enough of them to earn a negative reputation with law enforcement and therefore doesn't deserve "Hall of Fame" status.

 

[TxSteve713]

I bought one of these things not knowing it was a Lego toy. I saw 399 next to the sig sauer name and I pounced. Regretted since the first range trip. Long but silky smooth trigger. Not a fan of dao, and also not especially fond of the modular concept. The created a solution to a prob that doesn't exist

 

[Telekinesis]

Thanks Psa1m144, that's exactly what I'm trying to get at.

No, I don't have any experience with this gun beyond holding it one in a gun store and deciding I didn't like the concept of a modular pistol. I'm also not a fan of DAO, I much prefer the standard Sig DA/SA found on the 226/228 etc.

But even if I did like DAO and was ok with the concept of the modular parts, there is no way I would trust a gun that has repeatedly failed official law enforcement trials from multiple departments including US Federal agencies and international police forces. There are just too many other guns out there that will work without reservation to take a chance on a gun with a history of failure.

I think this gun was a poor choice to be inducted into this guy's "hall of fame".

 

[johnnydollar]

I paid something like $660 (plus tax) for my night-sight equipped Sig P250 in Sept of 2008. That's what you get when you buy the first generation of almost any new gun these days--an over-priced gun that does not work well. Mine was unreliable from the very beginning, and I soon found it a new home. I'll leave it to others to debate about why the gun is now being offered for $300 less than it sold for new in '08 (I know the reason why firsthand).

 

[WinThePennant]

The gun did undergo modifications since the initial release. What is commonly known as the "Gen 2" is a much better pistol than the original release.

Law enforcement and government agencies are about the biggest "Me Too" followers I've ever seen. In other words, once a gun gets a "stink" on it there is no talking them into buying it.

The Sig P250 is the gun everyone loves to hate. Really, it's much better than most people realize. And, that's coming from someone who owns one and has put hundreds of rounds down range. It really is 100% reliable, and accurate as anything I've ever owned. I've never shot it from a bench, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that it's more accurate than my W German P226.

I consider the P250 to be perhaps the ideal carry gun (subcompact). Its capacity is excellent, smooth and light trigger, and no infernal safeties to get in the way.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I saw one at the range recently, kept jamming on simple store bought Remington FMJ 9mm. It's got the best DAO trigger I've pulled but I don't think it's reliable enough from what I've seen. Some people are happy with them and others tried them and now hate them. I can't really say too much about them but I'll just stick to the guns that have a proven track record and have been in wide, successful use.

and no infernal safeties to get in the way.

They only get in the way if you aren't familiar with the gun.

 

[GLOOB]

Sounds like the design might have parts/tolerances that don't play well with their current manufacturing process. Keltec has some experience with that!

 

[ritepath]

It's the reason the 2022 is selling so good...

 

[Silent Bob]

Sorry, but the 250 is a turkey IMO.

 

[AK103K]

I just recently sold my "early" P250C. Never had a lick of trouble with it the whole time I owned it. It was as accurate and reliable as any of my other SIG's. It also had the best feeling grip of any of them too. Its trigger is still one of the nicest factory DA triggers Ive ever shot, and Im a fan of DA triggers.

I was always suspect of the ATF tests, as they never really did explain what the failures were, and I always suspected it was probably user error more than anything else. Most people unfamiliar with SIG's often have troubles due to the position of the slide stop, and the P250 is twice as susceptible, as it has ambi controls.

This is the first Ive heard of the Dutch trials, so I cant/wont comment on them.

Personally, Im not a "convertible" fan, and while waiting for the 357SIG tops to come out (at the time I got mine, they didnt yet have any of the conversions out), figured out Id just be better off getting another gun for what they wanted for the conversion units. Better to have two working guns than one that was still just "one", no matter how many ways it could be changed.

 

[GLOOB]

I was always suspect of the ATF tests, as they never really did explain what the failures were, and I always suspected it was probably user error more than anything else. Most people unfamiliar with SIG's often have troubles due to the position of the slide stop, and the P250 is twice as susceptible, as it has ambi controls.

Kinda like what happens when you put an extended slidestop on a G23? Fast forward to 6:23.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVSJjCeDRwk
Kudos to the guy for leaving this video up and explaining the issue in a followup.

But the ATF did break down failures into user-induced vs gun-induced. You'd think they'd know the difference. But maybe, if a large percentage of people are having the same user-induced problem, they might have classified it as a gun (design/ergos) problem.

That still leaves a lot of other consumers with reliability complaints, but I suppose it's still possible. Heck, over on the FN forums, there was a guy complaining that his mags got loose and dropped out by themselves while shooting. But before sending it back to FN, someone suggested he move his thumb and saved him the postage.

 

[Pietro Beretta]

NutNFancy -- That guy, lol. Sometimes I think hes a ninja of sorts; still he does give long reviews of handguns, though they definitely have his very personal opinions thrown in. He can never stay on his talking points that he has written down, he jumps ahead, goes on a diatribe before getting back on topic, that's why his reviews run 40 minutes and usually has a part 1 and 2.

Still, you usually can get some information from his videos, and he does put forth effort into his videos, you cant fault a guy for that

 

[Overkilll0084]

"Great DAO trigger."
"Super ultra wonderful DAO trigger!"
Golly folks, think how great a SA pull would be if they offered one.
While I can see some agencies might want DAO as an option, I fail to see the wisdom of not offering a DA/SA option in a full sized service type pistol. If I want DAO, I'll get a snubbie with a shrouded hammer.
Hall of fame? No, unfinished.

 

[AK103K]

Golly folks, think how great a SA pull would be if they offered one.

SIG's SA triggers are usually pretty good right out of the box too, or at least the SIG's Ive had with them were.

I suppose you have to be a DA shooter to understand the trigger. Most SA shooters dont understand.

If I want DAO, I'll get a snubbie with a shrouded hammer.

Out of the box, it wont be as nice as the P250's. I have a had a bunch to compare.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I honestly wonder what comprises his "hall of fame". I wonder if a 1911, P-35 or Combat Master resides there. anyway

 

[2wheels]

P250s aren't bad guns by any means, though the modular concept didn't work out too well for Sig and they're most well known for what happened with the ATF and the Dutch.

I could care less about what NutnFancy thinks about anything, but I do wonder why he thinks the P250 qualifies for hall of fame status (I can't sit through his rambling to find out). Other than the fact that they're really cheap now I fail to see how they are really all that awesome when compared to other modern poly guns. Makes me wonder what other handguns are in his "hall of fame"?

 

[MikeJackmin]

I have one - a .40 sub-compact - and I like it very much, but honestly, I would hesitate to recommend it to others.

First, the good news: it works perfectly (now), and it fits my particular needs exactly. I wanted a dead-simple, point and shoot pistol, with no safeties, and with no change from DA to SA after the first shot. I also wanted a .40, because it outperforms even a .357 in a barrel of three inches or less. There are several makes to choose from in this category, but the P250 is the only one that fit my hand well. (Even with a grip sleeve, I just cannot get a good grip on a glock). I also like the sights, and the easy-to-replace grip frame appeals to those who might be tempted to reshape it to suit their particular needs.

The bad? My new pistol required TWO trips back to sig to fix a persistent FTF problem. That used up the limits of my patience, but like I said, it's working perfectly now.

The trigger is long and smooth (as I wanted) but it has a particularly long reset, which could be troublesome. The sights are set up for sig's "combat hold", which means the bullet impact is at the center of the dot on the front sight, rather than the top edge of the front sight, and it is expensive to adjust it. I originally wanted a 9mm top end, but they caliber change kits are so expensive that it almost makes sense to just buy another pistol.

IF they get the quality issues worked out, and IF the costs of the modular parts becomes more reasonable, they'd have an excellent pistol here. Clean up the long reset and they'd have something very close to perfect. But right now? I'm not so sure.

Having said all that, this is the gun I want on me, when I want a gun. I shoot it well, it is powerful and accurate, and small enough to stay out of the way. Like a double-action-only revolver, it is forgiving of minor lapses of trigger discipline, and there is no safety to forget to snick on or off. Grab it, and it works.

I'd have probably gone with the three-inch .357 had the P250 not been available. That would have left me with a less powerful gun, and almost half the number of bullets, all in a slightly larger package.

 

[tarosean]

tNFancy has officially declared the P250 to be a "Hall of Fame" handgun.

and you care? why???

 

[Bovice]

Nutnfancy also equates the weight of a 92FS to a boat anchor.

The P250 is pathetic in relation to what came before it.

 

[Hunterdad]

I had one for a while. Being a 1911 guy myself, the dao trigger was a nightmare for me. I will say it was very accurate and reliable for the most part. It fit perfectly in my hand and it does indeed have the smoothest DA trigger pulls i have ever felt. I just couldn't get passed that darn trigger. So, I traded it for a T/C Contender in 30-30.

 

[Manson]

As some of you may know by now I am a big Sig fan. And I have fired about 50 rounds through the 250. It's a pretty good weapon. Great? Hall Of fame? Not so much. While it's ok there are many other good choice's in the category. As for the reviewer I have very little respect for his opinion.