NY Business Owner Kills two Robbers

[jim in Anchorage]

This is being discussed on Fox News right now. The individual that is being interviewed satated that the possibility of a civil suit is very real and that raising money to support the legal fund of Charles Augusto has already been looked into. Geraldo Rivera also said he would like to express his condolencases to the familys of the the deceased

He also offered to defend him for free in a civil suit. I don't what thats worth coming from him, but it was good he made the offer on-air.

 

[slzy]

without hate,but without remorse.

 

[Mp7]

Old men are dangerous

...did he do that with a pump??

 

[22-rimfire]

I wonder if the ammunition was 20 years old and the gun has been loaded with the same shells all this time?

 

[jfh]

The shotgun was a PGS, no less--

Which makes his use and defense all the more impressive. A google might bring up a picture of two cops removing it from the scene.

And, yes, the load was buckshot--exact details unknown.

Jim H.

 

[jfh]

The liability discussions may be traffic-generating for sites--

IMO. In a NYDaily newer article, PC Kelly--the top cop--was basically supportive of Gus's deed.

The article also notes the shotgun was registered, but maybe not permitted. corrected on edit:
In NYC, the firearm has to be registered, and the owner has to be permitted. Elsewhere, I have read that such permits for business owners are relatively 'routine'.

here is the article link.

Jim H.

 

[Doggy Daddy]

This is being discussed on Fox News right now.

I saw that too. While surprisingly pro-Gus for the most part, they did describe him as a "vigilante" in the text below the picture. I sent the show an email expressing my displeasure at their choice of words.

Haven't heard back from them.

DD

 

[toivo]

Some follow-up:

I'D SHOOT AGAIN IF I HAD TO
FEARLESS THUG-SLAY GUY BACK AT STORE

By MATTHEW NESTEL, JAMIE SCHRAM and LUKAS I. ALPERT

"I'd do it again if I had to."

Those were the first defiant words out of no-nonsense businessman Charles Augusto Jr.'s mouth yesterday as he came back to work less than 24 hours after opening fire with his trusty shotgun on four robbers -- killing two of them.

The four men had picked the wrong shop -- and the wrong man -- to mess with. And they would have known it had they read the prophetic words from Dante's "Divine Comedy" written in marker above the door: "Abandon all hope all ye who enter here."

The thugs entered a world of hurt when they barged into Augusto's Harlem restaurant-supply shop, Kaplan Bros. Blue Flame Corp., Thursday afternoon, pulling out a 9mm pistol and pistol-whipping an employee as they demanded cash.

"I told them there wasn't any money. 'Take your gun, put it in your pocket, and go home.' They had a chance to leave," Augusto said.

But they didn't listen.

So Augusto, 72 -- known to most as "Gus" -- channeled his inner Dirty Harry and pulled out the Remington shotgun he had hidden under his desk for 20 years. He opened fire three times, peppering all four men with buckshot.

"I did what I had to do," he said. "It wasn't my choice; it was their choice."

The wounded men tried to run but didn't make it far.

The man armed with the pistol, 29-year-old James Morgan -- who had a long rap sheet with nine prior arrests -- took the first shot directly to his face and made it only as far as the shop door before crumpling dead to the ground.

A second man, Raylin Footman, 21 -- who had a prior arrest for robbery and a relative who was a cop -- made it across 125th Street before collapsing. He'd died by the time he was taken to a hospital.

The other two, Bernard Witherspoon and Shamel McCloud, both 21, were picked up by police nearby and taken to St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital. They are expected to survive. Both are to be arraigned today on robbery charges.

Sitting at his desk in the middle of his shop, marred by bloodstains and with bullet holes in the windows, Augusto said he felt bad about what happened.

"I had to shoot them. It was a tough thing to do," he said. "I have to live with that. I'm sad that there are mothers and fathers who lost sons."

But Augusto's beaten employee -- who would only give his name as J.B. -- had little sympathy.

"S- - - went real bad for them, not for me," he said. "I'm breathing. They dead."

The 35-year-old had nothing but praise for his boss.

"I know Gus is a good dude. He's looked out for me since I was 19," he said. "He saved my life, man."

Augusto said: "I don't feel like a hero. I would have felt like a hero if I'd talked that kid down and into going home."

It wasn't the first time lowlifes had tried to rob Augusto. After a robbery 20 years ago, he bought the pump-action shotgun and stuck it under his desk. Until Thursday, he'd never had to use it.

"I hadn't touched it all this time. I didn't even know if it would work," he said. "I never fired it all this time."

But he left it loaded, just in case.

"If every single citizen were allowed to hold a gun, there would be less carjackings and robberies," he said.

Augusto's gun was properly registered with police, and he does not face any charges, authorities said.

The Coast Guard vet, who was born in Yonkers and lives with his wife of 48 years in Irvington, Westchester County, said he had been selling commercial kitchen equipment for nearly 50 years and had no intention of quitting.

"What's the worst they could do? Shoot me? I guess so. I'm not going to lay down and die. I'm just not going to," he said.

J.B. said his boss likes to do things "the old-fashioned way."

"Of course, he's going to keep open," he said.

Augusto and his employees tried to get back to business as usual yesterday, although it wasn't easy. When a woman came to place a candle outside the shop, J.B. angrily kicked it across the pavement.

"Who's this for?" he demanded of the startled woman. "For the guy who died? F- - - him!"

Additional reporting by Lachlan Cartwright, Shari Logan and Larry Celona

http://new-yorkpost.info/seven/0815...id_shoot_again_if_i_had_to_184655.htm?&page=1

 

[td5004]

I think it was all good that this 70 something man had the Right to have a weapon of his choice and excercized that right ,the shame is 2 of the robbers still are alive to maybe try this again..they were convicted burglars already

 

[rbernie]

<thread veer>

I do find it of interest that all of the 'birdshot for self defense' apologists have been strangely silent over the fact that three rounds of buckshot in an urban environment didn't result in roomfuls of babies or nuns being perforated with random projectiles.....

</thread veer>

 

[HOME DEPOT GEORGE]

I'd send the few buck I have left if they set up a civil defense fund because I'll tell you right now and I'm surprised it hasen't happened yet unless I missed it is Al Sharpton or some other anti gun crap stirrer wil have a press conference with members of the deceased families lined up 3 deep all saying how they was good boys and never hurt nobody and that their 6 page rapsheets were the result of profiling or harrasment or some other bull.

 

[Erik M]

I'd send the few buck I have left if they set up a civil defense fund because I'll tell you right now and I'm surprised it hasen't happened yet unless I missed it is Al Sharpton or some other anti gun sh+t stirrer wil have a press conference with members of the deceased families lined up 3 deep all saying how they was good boys and never hurt nobody and that their 6 page rapsheets were the result of profiling or harrasment or some other bull.

I hadnt considered race palying a part in this. I know Gus is white from the news coverage. As for the ethnicity of the co-workers and criminals I dont think it has been mentioned.

 

[HOME DEPOT GEORGE]

I might of jumped the gun a little but if the robbers were a minority it won't take long. And I'm saying this just to be a little bit of a smartazz because I'm definitely not racist but have you ever met a white dude named shamal. Apologies in advance if I offended anyone.

 

[Blakenzy]

Augusto squeezed off three blasts from the pistol-grip shotgun

Damn... After years of reading THR I was convinced that a PGO shotgun was useless and impossible to use in real life, only useful in cheap action movies. I guess this puts and end to that school of thought.

 

[rbernie]

After years of reading THR I was convinced that a PGO shotgun was useless and impossible to use in real life, only useful in cheap action movies.

Actually, what has been repeatedly stated in the PGO threads in the Shotgun forum is that the PGO shotgun is less effective than a stocked shotgun - not useless. Just as people have been killed with a 22LR weapon, so too can people be killed with a PGO shotgun. It's just generally HARDER to use a PGO shotgun than tools more suited to the job. For some reason, the PGO fanatics in the Shotgun forum seem incapable of either comprehending this notion or testing it.

In this case, a PGO shotgun was clearly enough to get the job done. That doesn't mean that it's the best tool for the job - just the tool at hand.

Given that the PGO shotgun is not terribly useful in passing shots, I can only presume that the door proved to be a bottleneck for The Bad Guys and that Augusto had a relatively stationary POA. But that's clearly speculation...

In any event - congrats to Augusto for having the mindset needed to use his toolset.

 

[amd6547]

I am no "pistol grip fanatic", as you so quaintly put it ... just someone who has shot various PG shotguns for a couple decades. The shotgun, stocked or otherwise, is not my first choice for a SD longarm ... that would be a carbine caliber 30, M1. I have no doubt, however, that the PG shotgun is an effective close range SD tool, and wielded with skill and determination, a criminal's worst nightmare. The story of 72 year old Gus, while an anecdote, is a very interesting anecdote ... 72 year old who appearantly never shot his PG shotgun, picks it up and bests four young toughs ... What does that say for those who take the time to shoot their weapon and learn how to use it?

 

[rbernie]

What does that say for those who take the time to shoot their weapon and learn how to use it?

It says that sometimes it's dang good to be lucky. And we should all be glad that it was Augusto who got lucky, and not the assailants.

 

[amd6547]

Luck favors the bold.

 

[Prophet]

Kudos for the guy. Was the weapon a Winchestor or a Remington? Two different articles, two different weapons mentioned. So goes the Press.

 

[toivo]

Was the weapon a Winchestor or a Remington?

Here's the picture from the New York Post:



Hard to tell much from that, though, at least for me.

 

[sniper5]

Probably a Mossberg 5.7mm lever action assault machine pistol designed for hunting whales, according to the firearms expert working for the NY Times

 

[RandKL]

3 unarmed robbers shot, 1 killed, gunman killed

Doesn't matter. If you're a part of the crime, you're a part of the *entire* crime. That's the way the law works. Those three, had they lived and been charged, would all be charged and convicted of armed robbery whether they had a gun or not. As long as there was one weapon evident or even implied, they're all armed by law and the gentleman had the right to shoot as long as he was reasonably convinced the threat existed.

As to the treatment of the body of the one....that's a poser. Kicking the corpse of a man who just tried to kill you? Cussing it? Doubtful it's any harsher a penalty than kicking or cussing a *live* person who just tried to kill you. The jury, if one were ever convened, would laugh it out of court.

richard

 

[Erik M]

As to the treatment of the body of the one....that's a poser. Kicking the corpse of a man who just tried to kill you? Cussing it? Doubtful it's any harsher a penalty than kicking or cussing a *live* person who just tried to kill you. The jury, if one were ever convened, would laugh it out of court.

And if a civil suit goes forward the prosecution will have a field day with the fact. Moving a body/tampering with crime scene yeah its laughable.

 

[peyton]

I think Gus had the advantage of surprise. The robbers were probably expecting sheeple, not a wolf!! The decision to run out the front door at the same time helped Gus a lot. Bunching up is NEVER a good idea. At least that is what my Drill Sergeant taught us.

 

[LoneStarWings]

Looks like a winchester 1300, pistol grip only. It also looks like the cops crammed something in the action for transport? I'd be curious to know what sized buckshot he was using too. Very impressive story, very impressive man.