NY "loophole"

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gunsmith

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http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=5714222
(New York - WABC, Oct. 18, 2007) - An Eyewitness News undercover investigation reveals just how easy it is, and perfectly legal, for anyone to get their hands on a deadly firearm -- no background check needed, no drivers license even needs to be shown.
the Investigators Jim Hoffer has more on this exclusive story.

New York state has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. But after the gun scare at St. John's University in Queens, we decided to take a closer look at the law as it applies to a specific type of rifle -- one that panicked a campus and nearly killed a state police trooper.

Hoffer: "You get a whole kit? .. do you sell a lot of these?
Gun clerk: "Yes"

In the time that it takes to purchase a pair of socks, one can buy a deadly rifle.

Eyewitness News went undercover at Dicks Sporting Goods store in Upstate New York and with less information than is needed to borrow a library book, we bought a 50-caliber black powder hunting rifle. We just counted out the cash, about $200 and walked away with a brand new, highly powerful weapon.

So, 10 minutes inside this store, I was able to get a gun identical to the one the St. John's student had. I got this with no questions asked, no background check, no identification needed -- all perfectly legal. Let's make no mistake, this isn't a toy, it's a very lethal weapon.

A weapon's expert with the Harrison police department demonstrated for us its power.

Sgt. Michael Olsey: "Highly accurate, really very powerful able to take down large North American game.
Hoffer: "Even a bear?
Sgt. Olsey: "Bear, grizzly, black bear ... you name it."

"I didn't really see him, all I saw was the barrel of a gun and he shot me," said state trooper Amanda Reif.

State police trooper Amanda Reif has felt the power of the black powder rifle when she was shot by one last summer while responding to a domestic call.

"This one hit my vest and it mushroomed, it was the first shot. The second shot just hit a little higher," she said.

She has battled back from near death spending hours each week in rehab. The gunman whom she was able to shoot and kill was a convicted rapist -- a felon who obtained the rifle because of a gaping loophole in New York state's gun laws.

That is, blackpowder firearms are considered "antiques" because they are muzzle loaded. State and federal gun laws do not include antique firearms, so they are exempt from any permits or background checks.

"I'm not anti-gun by any means, I grew up with weapons and I believe everyone should be able to carry one if they're legal to possess one but you shouldn't be able to have ready access to them like that," Reif said.

Just a few weeks ago, a St. John's student with a history of psychological problems had ready access to a black powder rifle, buying one with no questions asked and then creating a panic when he walked onto campus with the gun loaded.

But to expose the enormity of this loophole, The Investigators purchased another black powder rifle, this time on the Internet. In just four days, it was delivered directly to my house all for under $200 dollars.

"Any convicted felon can just walk into a store, purchase this weapon and be on the street in 10 minutes ready to ... kill," Olsey said.

Police Commissioner Ray Kelly is not happy about the antique gun loophole. He says it should be done away with immediately.

We have a call into the governor's office to see what can be done about it.

If you have a tip about this or any other investigative story, give our tip-line a call at 877-TIP-NEWS.
 
Does anyone know how the blackpowder shooter mentioned managed to get off two shots? Did he have two guns, or did he actually have time to go through the lengthy undertaking required to reload a blackpowder arm? (Which I have read takes half a minute or more, unless one is highly trained)
 
Just a few weeks ago, a St. John's student with a history of psychological problems had ready access to a black powder rifle, buying one with no questions asked and then creating a panic when he walked onto campus with the gun loaded.

Creating panic among sheeple, of course, is a felony in New York.
 
"I'm not anti-gun by any means, I grew up with weapons and I believe everyone should be able to carry one if they're legal to possess one but you shouldn't be able to have ready access to them like that," Reif said.

Um. I'm pretty sure that makes you anti-gun.
 
"Eyewitness News went undercover at Dicks Sporting Goods store in Upstate New York and with less information than is needed to borrow a library book, we bought a 50-caliber black powder hunting rifle. We just counted out the cash, about $200 and walked away with a brand new, highly powerful weapon."

More sensational trash from whe whiney media. Very soon muzzleloaders will be registered in PRNY.
 
Attention fence-sitters, they want to ban all guns. You're muzzleloader is too big, your .22 is too small, your deer rifle is to accurate, your clay-bustin' shotgun is to rapid-fire...
 
You're all forgettting that the fact it takes minutes to reload a BP rifle is unimportant because the people have been so cowed by the antis. Were a gunman to fire a BP into a crowd of people, 1 could die from the bullet, 10 would die from fear of A gun, and the rest would sit there waiting to be executed while the guy went through the motions to reload, instead of jumping him like any rational person would.
 
I have to get one quick

Before the knee-jerk libs ban them too. My collection just keeps getting bigger.

Pa - here i come
 
Does anyone know how the blackpowder shooter mentioned managed to get off two shots? Did he have two guns, or did he actually have time to go through the lengthy undertaking required to reload a blackpowder arm? (Which I have read takes half a minute or more, unless one is highly trained)

probably a BP revolver, what about the gaping loophole in laws against shooting at police officers, or rape, well those didn't work, surely if there was a backgroung check on BP guns this guy would have been an upstanding citizen.

I for one hope BP guns are the new weapon of choice by criminals, can you imagine the headlines "drive by broadside involving musket toting thugs ends with capture by police, the dead rabbits gang members ran off of the road when the car filled with smoke, and were hastily apprehended. The target, apparently a barn turned informant was completely unharmed". Or "bank robbery ends in tragedy, A 3 time convicted felon walked into First Monopoly Bank, and fired a shot into the air as he screamed no-body move. But as he was reloading his Hawken rifle, everyone walked out of the bank, as a patron drew his concealed hangun, and held the would be robber for police. This brave person said it was the hardest he has laughed in years"

We need to close the loophole for rocks and pointy sticks, in less time than it takes a reporter to spin a story anyone can walk ouside, and pick up one of these highly deadly weapons, They have been used to hunt everything from rabbits to mastadons for millenia, are available practically everywhere. Just last summer some punk kids, some as young as 10 were able to pick up a 5oz rock, and smash the window of a neighbors truck. To expose the enormity of this loophole, I went outside, and promptly picked up a stick, in seconds any convicted felon can walk into any park, and pick up one of these weapons, and in 5 seconds they are ready to kill. We have to call the governors office and see what can be done about it.
 
Laughing, laughing, laughing

I read the article with great interest and when they finally revealed that all this cloak n' dagger reporting was over a percussion cap black powder rifle I literally burst out laughing. I was waiting for them to call it a "machine gun" but alas did not but repeated the word "deadly" over and over.

But since the same people thought that a bic lighter could blow up a building of it's own accord I guess anything is possible ... :neener::neener::neener:
 
Stated clearly and so it needs to be repeated...
Attention fence-sitters, they want to ban all guns. Your muzzleloader is too big, your .22 is too small, your deer rifle is to accurate, your clay-bustin' shotgun is to rapid-fire...
And so the "managed media" continues it's campaign of brainwashing. Ever striving to reinforce the mental association of Gun=Evil until no "right thinking" person should ever want one.
:barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf:
 
Stated clearly and so it needs to be repeated...

Quote:
Attention fence-sitters, they want to ban all guns. Your muzzleloader is too big, your .22 is too small, your deer rifle is to accurate, your clay-bustin' shotgun is to rapid-fire...

It needs to be shouted from the rooftops repeatedly and loudly enough for even the most apathetic of us to hear. Can you imagine the panic that would have ensued if the student had been armed with a deadly tactical crossbow, decked out in camouflage and capable of taking the biggest game in North America?

Seriously, crossbows are as deadly as muzzle loaders, can be reloaded more quickly, and worst of all, they're vewwy, vewwy quiet. Imagine the fear that would be engendered amongst the sheep if people started turning up with crossbow bolts sticking out of them. Don't even get me started on compound bows...

Are all you fudds listening? (Sorry, I know it's not good form to bash other gun owners, but I just get so frustrated when people buy into the "they ain't coming for my duck gun" mentality.)
 
"This one hit my vest and it mushroomed, it was the first shot. The second shot just hit a little higher," she said.

Ummmm.... Did he have two rifles, or did she just sit around and wait while he reloaded?
 
Did he have two rifles, or did she just sit around and wait while he reloaded?
Sounds like he got the first shot off, she fired back killing him, but this being an evil black [powder] rifle it managed to "go off" after he was dead, striking the Trooper and showing just how deadly these EBPR's are and why they must be banned without further ado. Maybe he had a hangfire.:fire:
 
So, 10 minutes inside this store, I was able to get a gun identical to the one the St. John's student had. I got this with no questions asked, no background check, no identification needed -- all perfectly legal

After reading this story, I decided to do my own investigative story. Here's how it went.

Me: Hello, yes, hi. I'd like to order a black powder pistol please.
Clerk: Ah, alright. Would you like the .36 or .44 caliber model?
Me: Um. How about the .36 cal.
Clerk: Alright. And do you live in an apartment or house?
Me: Ahh... neither?
Clerk: How about I just put down 'house.' Now, have you ever used a black powder pistol before?
Me: Um.... no, I don't think I have...
Clerk: Okay, you'll need to be sure that you use the correct caps and grain of black powder as well as the correct size ball. Make certain you read the instructions carefully, alright? Now, how would you like to pay for this today?
Me: What's with all these questions??! JIM HOFFER LIED TO ME! HE SAID I COULD BUY THIS STUFF WITH NO QUESTIONS ASKED!

Then I hung up the phone in consternation. My guess is that Jimmyboy probably used some of his underworld contacts or something in order to get his deadly BP 50 CALIBER 1700's assault-style rifle.



Oh, and this line

drive by broadside involving musket toting thugs ends with capture by police, the dead rabbits gang members ran off of the road when the car filled with smoke

is still making me laugh. Kudos to you alucard.
 
"Attention fence-sitters, they want to ban all guns. You're muzzleloader is too big, your .22 is too small, your deer rifle is to accurate, your clay-bustin' shotgun is to rapid-fire..."

Your post says it all. The shrill exaggerating antis' have succeeded to a great extent in driving a wedge between "hunters" and us dastardly gun rights folks. Little do the "hunters" know that the anti's want all your guns also. They want your scoped .30/30 "sniper rifle." They want to outlaw your repeating shotgun.

The anti's sometimes include .50 caliber muzzleloaders in their demands to eliminate .50 caliber long guns. Look at the proposed anti gun legislation now being batted around in IL.
 
And yet, there's no talk of dealing with these "dangerous felons" they've got walking around their streets. That's a pretty f*cking big loophole allowed for such dangerous people: have good behavior, and you can get paroled after a year of your 20 years required (nevermind that's incredibly lax sentencing for such a horrendous crime as rape or murder, but apparently pretty commonplace).

And why is this a problem? Because of sentencing loopholes in the state of NY! If they had sensible death penalty sentencing for violent offenders (call it a "restriction"), these people would not be able to harm others again. Problem solved, permanently - and 'regulating' a known-problem with a will of their own is going to be much more effective than regulating an inanimate object.

I wonder if it occurred to them that a dangerous person is a dangerous person, whether their weapon is a hand grenade, full-auto rifle, black powder pistol, lead pipe, a broken beer bottle, or simply their hands. Rapists don't use guns to rape, they use their dicks (though having watched more hours of L&O than I can count, there are other ways to perform that dirty task, too :().
 
You're all forgettting that the fact it takes minutes to reload a BP
Uhhhhh...

NO!

I've watched guys at BP shoots load Civil War replicas fast enough to shoot 2 or 3 shots a minute.

20 seconds is a really long time...
 
"I'm not anti-gun by any means, I grew up with weapons and I believe everyone should be able to carry one if they're legal to possess one but you shouldn't be able to have ready access to them like that," Reif said.

This person is a law enforcement officer? What did she do while the shooter was reloading, try to determine why he fired the first shot? Or how he "felt"? Or was she trying to get her bullet out of her shirt pocket and into her gun? A sheeple with a badge. :rolleyes:

Bloomberg does have influence outside of NYC. It's getting closer and closer, we'd better wake up!:fire:
 
Werewolf, I was refering to the uninitiated like myself. I have no doubt a skilled BP rifleman could reload extremely fast. Any guy that just walks into a store and buys a BP rifle or pistol without knowing anything about it would likely take some time. I appologise for not being clear in my rant.
 
The POS Sheldon Silver is probably sitting at his desk and pounding away on his keyboard as we speak.... new legislation to require a 4473 for muzzleloaders will be passed and on Gov. Spitzers desk by Friday.
 
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