NY State Bill: Officers should shoot to stop, not to kill

[3845]

As I recall, Jeff Cooper outlined the difference between "shooting to kill" and "shooting to stop" quite well. He said, essentially, that lethal force is justified when a persons behavior is such "that it does not matter, legally or morally, if he dies from being stopped." Many years before Tennesse v. Garner defined the use of (lethal) force for police throughout the country the FBI standard was in the defense of your life or that of another, which I personally decided I would adopt even though in my state it was legal, in 1976, to shoot people for committing burglary and several other "forcible felonies", and I knew officers who did just that.
Everyone has an opinion, which is good. Not everyone has sense to go with their opinion, which is life.

 

[LRS_Ranger]

This shouldn't be a problem, since due to the strict gun legislation already in place, almost nobody the cops would be trying to apprehend would be armed..

 

[wishin]

Not an LEO and except for a brief period when I was 6-11 have never entertained becoming one, but wouldn't want to be one there! That's a good way to get yourself killed. It seems like NY wants the distinction of having the highest LEO death rate ever at the hands of felons.

 

[mbt2001]

The Femoral Artery is a kill shot. Likewise the Brachial Artery.

The idiot assembly pukes know nothing about anatomy, shooting, tactics, or decision making. They should be run out of town. We have real problems in this country and seem to have nothing but delusional politicians running around with silly ideas and programs.

 

[nitetrane98]

The whole shoot to stop thing for LEOs is strictly or the benefit of a jury of soccer moms. There's a reason the 10 ring is located where it is on a silhoutte target. With a passing nod to the morality of shooting to kill, our instructor urged us to simply shoot to stop. He also stressed that, unfortunately, the best stopping shots were also the most likely to be fatal.

This legislation could be subtitled "And NYC Lawyer Assistance Act". I can see the late night TV ads now. "Were you or someone you know shot too hard by the police while attempting to kill them? Have you lost the use of a hand, arm or leg? You could be entitled to a large settlement. Call Weel, Cheatam and Howe today."

 

[Warhawk83]

I swear, when a senator submits a bill like this, is should be printed out, and nailed to every telephone pole in her district so all her constituents can see what they are doing out there.

I'm sure they would be pleased. After all,it's their innocent babies that are turning their lives around ( that just tried to kill a cop) that are the victims of racial discrimination by the PO-Lice.

 

[win71]

There is, after all, a reason it's called "DEADLY FORCE".

 

[Gouranga]

There is, after all, a reason it's called "DEADLY FORCE".

Well and that is just it. Let's say the police were that good and they could land 70% of their shots to limbs (yeah that is fantasy but let's assume). So in the politicians world, that is a flesh wound that heals up, easily. The guy just needs to band aid and goes on with his life.

Whats worse she is perpetuating that there is such a thing as using a firearm in a non-lethal manner. Maybe she should see a picture of what a 9mm JHP does when it hits a guys arm or leg. Also, assuming the cop misses the bone (which in our fantasy of 70% accuracy, he may well do), anyone want to take a guess at the chance that bullet does not go right through the limb and carry enough velocity to endanger anyone who may be behind them? Now consider the same scenario with cops carrying .40 JHPs or .45's.

Any shot with a firearm is a kill shot. Trying to make people think that you can pull that trigger without endangering life, is irresponsible.

 

[ArmedBear]

...all of that, plus...

Cops are already shooting to stop. Killing is incidental. It isn't the cop's fault that a human (or other animal) can't reasonably be stopped by a shot that couldn't possibly be lethal. The cop's just trying to get out alive, and he/she damn well deserves to get out alive and uninjured.

The only true "shoot to kill" shot would be an execution, where someone who poses no threat is shot so as to guarantee lethality, as in making someone kneel while you shoot him in the head. I do not believe that any US PD has had this as SOP, EVER. Now maybe some mafia-owned Chicago cops in the 20s or some essentially-criminal sheriffs out West in the 1870s, actually did that sort of thing, but it was never LEGAL to do it.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Bill: Officers should shoot to stop, not to kill

The proposed bill has no Senate sponsorship and no votes in the Assembly as of Tuesday May 25th.

One Capital source says the bill is virtually dead in the Assembly anyway.

Fortunately it seems that even the NYS pols seem to recognize this is one of the stupidest frackin ideas to come down the pike in a long time ....

 

[M&PVolk]

Must racism be brought into everything? The article states that the primary motivating factor for jeopardizing LE officer's lives is because shootings are looked at as racist by minority communities? No one plays the race card quite like the Democrats, and they have only gotten worse about it since the election of Obama. Race trumps everything, including right and wrong.

Here's a novel thought, how about we allow LE to do what they need to do to protect themselves within the scope of the law? That way, when a shooting occurs, we can investigate whether or not it was truly justified and absolve or prosecute the officer for the actual act that took place based on its legality. As to the criminals that get shot, I fail to see how someone's inability to accept responsibility and consequences for their actions is the fault of a victim or the LEO. If you try to kill someone, you might be killed yourself. If you can't comprehend that, too bad. You deserve what's coming.

While I suspect this bill will not pass, if by some hideous chance it does, the sponsor of the bill and everyone who signed it should be made to personally attend every funeral of LE's killed while trying to wound and have to justify their law during the service.

 

[mustang_steve]

Considering the average police officer has less actual range time than the average enthusiast....the idea of such a restriction on the police disturbs me greatly.

 

[gunnutery]

Armoredman and Officer's wife stated things perfectly in their first posts. This bill (which is fortunately dead) would actually open up potential for many more lawsuits. If you have to articulate that you shot to wound but the suspect died anyway, you're in a world of hurt.

 

[IdahoLT1]

If this law were to pass, she should introduce legislation that would allow LEO's to dual-wield firearms, look into training them to slow time down so they can get their accurate shots to the limbs and implement a new training program that teaches cops to shoot while laying on the ground and rolling. Its obvious this idiotic politician is living in a Hollywood dream land.