NYC Landlord Tells ATF Inspector No Firearms Allowed

[Cavalier Knight]

I currently reside within a DHCR regulated building in New York, NY. My apartment was originally occupied by my Grandmother then it went in succession to my Father and many years later to me. My Fathers military records from the Vietnam era are addressed here just to give you an idea of the amount of time my family has occupied the space.

Several years ago before I took over the lease the building was sold to a new owner. Although I did not reside here for the duration I moved in at a much later date which was still enough time to allow me to receive succession from my Father.

I have a standard front & back page DHCR lease with no additional provisions attached. My Fathers previous leases have zeros in that section of his old leases as well. I am currently in possession of the appropriate firearms permit(s) / license(s) from the NYPD to possess firearms. I recently applied for a FFL01 & C&R from the ATF.

The property owner did not state that I could not legally conduct my business but he told the investigator that "I am not allowed to possess firearms in my premises" although there are no such provisions in my lease. Being a renewal lease I was not given any attachments stating that it was a provision in the "original" lease signed by my Grandmother at a time when in my opinion there would have been no reason to include such a provision.

I'm communicating with the NYC Council now to determine if my business complies with a professional office which is a permitted use. As I am an internet based business (no retail sales).

I want to challenge this as an illegal arbitrary & capricious statement that has no legal standing in regards to my first two year renewal lease contract which I signed that went into effect on 06.01.2009 as he did not include any such firearm restriction policy.

As per the NYPD Commanding Officer of the Licensing Division the landlord cannot prohibit me but I need that in writing.

Statement on the back of DHCR renewal lease. http://www.dhcr.state.ny.us/Forms/Rent/rtp8.pdf

Before you complete and sign PART B and return this Renewal Lease Form, be sure to check that all lawful provisions and written agreements have been attached by the owner to this Form. Please read all attachments carefully. If such other lawful provisions appear, they are part of this lease renewal offer and renewal lease. If there are any lawful agreements between you and the owner, attached copies must be signed by both parties.

 

[Steve_NEPhila]

Sounds great. Now get a local attorney and pursue the matter. Or disregard the words of the landlord and conduct your business as you see fit.

There is little to nothing anyone on this forum can do for you.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...There is little to nothing anyone on this forum can do for you.

Yup, a real life legal problem in the real world. The OP needs the services of a qualified, knowledgeable, local lawyer.

 

[Cavalier Knight]

I've already had conversations with Gun Owners of America, Second Amendment Foundation, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association.

 

[Sam1911]

Did they offer you advice? This sounds a lot like a legal issue that an attorney should handle for you. What information are you looking to get from the forum?

 

[rattletrap1970]

There's a guy over on the Northeastshooters forum names "Jcohen" he is a firearms attorney. Nice guy. You might want to look him up, if he doesn't practice in your area, he might know someone good who does.

 

[Dave P]

DHCR regulated building

Does that mean rent controlled? Are you paying the same rent your grandmother was paying???

 

[waterhouse]

Don't have any advice, but good luck to you.

 

[kurt1305]

I sympathize with your issues and good luck with their resolution. Thank God I live in a state that doesn't put up with that crap.

 

[VBurd2128]

I'd also suggest getting a lawyer. This reminds me of homeowners associations and property management companies who have rules that state "no satellite dishes" but, from what I understand, the FCC has regulations that prohibit the prohibition of satellite dishes. I think it has something to do with ensuring consumers have options in their television provider.

This might be similar in that it seems you have the proper permits/licenses and are doing things 100% legit. Good luck with everything.

 

[CoRoMo]

Set down with an attorney. That's the best advice you're going to get here. I obviously don't know the ins & outs of NYC tenant regs, but once your lease comes up for renewal, I'd think your landlord will have the upper hand with regard to what he's going to allow in/on his property.

 

[Mp7]

If DHCR means you inherited Grandma´s rent (+inflation) and you own firearms,
you are one rare person!!! In NYC.

i´d say.

All the best. Sounds like u have the right.

 

[mbogo]

Absent the landlord showing you documentary proof that the (original) lessee agreed to a prohibition on firearms being possessed on the property, you should be able to own and keep firearms.
Contact a local tenants' rights organization for help (but don't mention firearms; these organizations tend to be extremely liberal) in determining what rights you have and do not have based on your copy of the lease (and whatever the landlord presents as proof of the original lease).
Whether you'll be able to run an FFL business is questionable; NYC jumped in, balls and all, when Clinton and Reno decided to reduce the number of FFL dealers. Emperor Bloomberg loves every cockamamie ATFE scheme to inhibit FFLs, and unless the building is zoned commercial/retail, you are unlikely to receive said FFL.

mbogo

 

[Cavalier Knight]

I'll try to answer everyone's questions at once but not in order.

No I don't pay my Grandmothers rent (wish I did) but my increases are at a regulated two year minimum.

LANDLORD ISSUE: SAF's legal department is working on it directly will write letter to landlord asking for response stating that no illegal weapons are allowed or face further legal action, NYSRPA sent it to an NRA lawyer who will refer me to a lawyer who can possibly represent me and GOA is sending me a few lawyer contacts as well. Also waiting for feedback from a local tenants right organization in my area.

ATF ZONING ISSUE: In response to emails which I sent yesterday to all of the NYC Council members on the Land Use Zoning Committee. I received several calls today (08.12.10) from the offices of several NYC Council members to discuss the definition of professional office which is a permitted use in a residential zoning district. I am internet based and I don't conduct retail sales I can transact business online never having touched or received at my location firearm which isn't mine.

One of the individuals representing one of the Council members is ex law enforcement so he supports the idea of my company Cavalier Knight and stated that he will give my issue to the legislative area of the Councilman's office to see if they want to review it as a potential piece of new legislation that needs to be addressed. Gave me his contact information to follow up as well. So I will keep you updated.

 

[Cavalier Knight]

08.20.10 my two investigators arrived at my residence spent two hours and I was told my C&R is looking good (in NYC they drill you for a C&R as well) stated they just have to verify if the NYPD has any issues with an internet FFL01. If not I should be good to go. I called the NYPD but the individual who handles it is not in until Monday.

One of them suggested I join the ATF seeing as how I was aware of so many of their regulations it went smooth got a big 50 state book and a little C&R one too.

 

[Guns and more]

Is it just me or is there something ironic here!
ATF complaining about "illegal arbitrary & capricious statement "

 

[Cavalier Knight]

That was my complaint not the ATF's.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I know of someone who went through the same thing only it was a "No Pets Allowed" policy. She had lived there with her cats for several years when ownership changed. Because there was no restrictions on pets in the original lease she signed, she was able to keep the cats there untill the lease expired at the first of the year. When time came to re-up the new lease had the "no pets" provision added so she moved out. As I understand it, a lease is a binding contract on both parties and terms of the lease can not changed until it expires, even if the property changes hands the new owner is bound by the contract.

 

[Jim K]

Does anyone seriously think NYC is going to back a gun owner on anything? And to not only actually own a gun, but to want to conduct a gun business? In an apartment? Against the landlord's wishes? Dream on.

He is lucky if Bloomberg doesn't order the cops to just waste him as a public menace.

Jim