mljdeckard
Member
I think Romney would have repeated the "We already have enough gun laws" line, and continued budget negotiations. He wouldn't have put a VP with an anti-gun record in charge of a harumphing committee.
Obama pledges "full weight" to AWB in 2013!
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blarby
Member
The same line he took in Mass. I see........
R.W.Dale
Member
This the same Romney that openly stated that ar15's are just for hunting down and killing people?
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mljdeckard
Member
I spelled out what I think in post #25. It was a dead horse then. It isn't more alive now.
R.W.Dale
Member
And its a false pretense
Romney was for whatever will get him the most votes. If he'd won with Obama out of the way he'd trip over himself to pander to the same MAJORITY Obama is now.
Romney made a political career of not giving two ----- about the party line, it was always about where the most votes were with him.
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mljdeckard
Member
How would pandering to Obama's base get him more votes? They never liked him and never will.
What exactly is a 'false pretense'?
What exactly is a 'false pretense'?
blarby
Member
And this is where the political divides the reality, I suppose- and what makes discussing these topics without politics ( as we're supposed to, here at least) extremely tricky.
I think the reality is more devious than Obama or Romney- We've had senators waiting in the wings for this opportunity for some time. They would not be ignored by either president, although I will agree that one emboldens them more than the other.
I think the strongest way out is to ask those senators " If you had the perfect solution cooking for over a year- why wait until now, until after a tragedy- why not push so hard on this to save lives, not avenge them ? " And make them spell it out time, and time, and time, and time again on national TV and in the press.
Making them point out that they needed and wanted lost lives ( to "save lives" ) as political capital to take away freedoms is the magic lozenge we needing floating around in everyones' throats as they're going hoarse debating this.
Letting the populace know that their leaders are willing to expend childrens' lives in order to fulfill their political agenda is the bad taste spin we most def. need. Ya, its spin- so what. They use it on us, I think its time they savor the flavor of that knife cutting both ways.
Expose the root, not just the leaves, and you'll remove the hanging tree- not just the convenient branches we keep hitting over and over again.
I think the reality is more devious than Obama or Romney- We've had senators waiting in the wings for this opportunity for some time. They would not be ignored by either president, although I will agree that one emboldens them more than the other.
I think the strongest way out is to ask those senators " If you had the perfect solution cooking for over a year- why wait until now, until after a tragedy- why not push so hard on this to save lives, not avenge them ? " And make them spell it out time, and time, and time, and time again on national TV and in the press.
Making them point out that they needed and wanted lost lives ( to "save lives" ) as political capital to take away freedoms is the magic lozenge we needing floating around in everyones' throats as they're going hoarse debating this.
Letting the populace know that their leaders are willing to expend childrens' lives in order to fulfill their political agenda is the bad taste spin we most def. need. Ya, its spin- so what. They use it on us, I think its time they savor the flavor of that knife cutting both ways.
Expose the root, not just the leaves, and you'll remove the hanging tree- not just the convenient branches we keep hitting over and over again.
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Queen_of_Thunder
member
Well unless the Republicans in the House cave nothing will happen. Of course if he does follow through then a Republican majority in the Senate is a very real possibility in the 2014 elections.
R.W.Dale
Member
If he'd won it would be Romney's base not Obama's
And it wouldn't be made up of us as a majority. It would have been the same fence sitters and urban libs that are clamoring for gun control now.
You have to understand that WE are a minority now. As a "base" we aren't numerous enough to matter any more.
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NRA must have contingency plans in calling for nationwide protest rallies and a big march to the Lincoln Memorial . This is in case Obama , Feinstein and the rest of them calls for AWB and HIcap Ban.
No time to waste around . The 2A is under attack .
No time to waste around . The 2A is under attack .
RedAlert
Member
Once again this forum is filled with Political Party and Presidential Candidate bashing. Also it seems everyone is certain, that just joining the NRA is going to solve all our problems. Dream on!
The NRA does as much to incite or inflame all gun issues as does every tradgedy involving schools and guns.
In general we have a much more educated opinion on these subjects than mainstream media does. Send letters to the media to correct their misinformation.
Still it seems everyone is forgetting the 2nd Amendment cannot be changed by a president, a political party, nor any Group (NRA). It requires major majorities in 3/4ths of all the state legislatures! Any bill passed by congress will need to stand the test of a Supreme Court Battle. Please see the following for info on adding or repealing amendments to our constitution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution
As I've mentioned on previous posts we need our members to write their political representatives, both in the Senate and House in both State and Federal bodies. Write clear, clean, sane and cogent letters. Invective gets directed to the round file. Once isn't enough, try to write two or three times a year. If possible make an appointment with your rep when he/she returns to your state to discuss the issue. If you visit Wash DC, make an appointment there.
If the RTKBA means something to you, take the time.
The NRA does as much to incite or inflame all gun issues as does every tradgedy involving schools and guns.
In general we have a much more educated opinion on these subjects than mainstream media does. Send letters to the media to correct their misinformation.
Still it seems everyone is forgetting the 2nd Amendment cannot be changed by a president, a political party, nor any Group (NRA). It requires major majorities in 3/4ths of all the state legislatures! Any bill passed by congress will need to stand the test of a Supreme Court Battle. Please see the following for info on adding or repealing amendments to our constitution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution
As I've mentioned on previous posts we need our members to write their political representatives, both in the Senate and House in both State and Federal bodies. Write clear, clean, sane and cogent letters. Invective gets directed to the round file. Once isn't enough, try to write two or three times a year. If possible make an appointment with your rep when he/she returns to your state to discuss the issue. If you visit Wash DC, make an appointment there.
If the RTKBA means something to you, take the time.
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mljdeckard
Member
The legislators who have been waiting have been there for a long time. Lautenberg, McCarthy, and Feinstein know that this is their last shot. That doesn't mean it's a GOOD shot. They are in the position where they have a lame-duck congress that would love to talk about ANYTHING but the budget, and a crisis which is slightly worse than previous crises. This is as close as they are going to get before they retire. They are too old to ride out the publicity cycle anymore. This is why Feinstein upped the ante and threw on a lot of stuff in addition to the bill which has already been ignored more than a dozen times. When they retire in the next election or two, who will be the senators and congresspeople who trot these bills out every session? They have been alone for a long time.
The ban passed in 1994 by two votes, with sneaky process, a sunset clause, and a democratic majority. Bill Clinton stated that it was the single-biggest factor that cost him both houses. When Obama took office in 2009, sixty some-odd Democrat congressmen, knowing full-well the intentions of Holder and Obama, sent them a letter telling them not to bother with any new gun laws, because they won't vote for them. Most of them are still in office. In 1994, we as a gun community were poorly organized and not media savvy at all. Very few people owned AR-pattern rifles, as compared to today. In the majority opinion for the Heller decision, it was stated that guns that are 'in common use' are protected. Any new ban would be working against that language. Stare Decisis directs that unless there is any new evidence, the existing ruling will stand. (However, this would be one of those times you would regret it if Obama had a chance to fill those court seats first.)
So if Feinstein gets (by my count) three lawmakers to flip, no, I'm not calling it a done deal. It is safe to flip when the law has a very small chance of making it to the floor at all. She's yelling louder, but it's the same thing she has been yelling for decades. The fervor was at its peak about a week ago. They will not get stronger. People will not get MORE intense about this.
The ban passed in 1994 by two votes, with sneaky process, a sunset clause, and a democratic majority. Bill Clinton stated that it was the single-biggest factor that cost him both houses. When Obama took office in 2009, sixty some-odd Democrat congressmen, knowing full-well the intentions of Holder and Obama, sent them a letter telling them not to bother with any new gun laws, because they won't vote for them. Most of them are still in office. In 1994, we as a gun community were poorly organized and not media savvy at all. Very few people owned AR-pattern rifles, as compared to today. In the majority opinion for the Heller decision, it was stated that guns that are 'in common use' are protected. Any new ban would be working against that language. Stare Decisis directs that unless there is any new evidence, the existing ruling will stand. (However, this would be one of those times you would regret it if Obama had a chance to fill those court seats first.)
So if Feinstein gets (by my count) three lawmakers to flip, no, I'm not calling it a done deal. It is safe to flip when the law has a very small chance of making it to the floor at all. She's yelling louder, but it's the same thing she has been yelling for decades. The fervor was at its peak about a week ago. They will not get stronger. People will not get MORE intense about this.
I agree, leave the partisanship at the door. There is only one issue at stake here, focus people, focus.
mljdeckard
Member
No one is saying we should be complacent. But most of this fight is psychological. If they already have half the gun community convinced they have won, they have seized the momentum. DON'T PLAY THEIR GAME. This is not even CLOSE to being a done deal.
PAULREVERE
Member
The Obamalama-Ding Dongs who voted for him, are having a heck of a time removing the taste of crow out of their mouths. No way would Romney have voted for an AWB, knowing full well that any future Repub would lose the 2A vote. Especially with a guy like Paul Ryan as VP, and a potential President one day. That argument makes no sense. We can fully thank the pro 2A/Kenyan voters for their head-in-rectum syndrome Nov 6th.
R.W.Dale
Member
Are you guys insane? Or just that ill informed?
Romney had already SIGNED INTO LAW as governor an AWB that shares most of the key features of the new proposed AWB.
Ask MA residents how firm Romney was on 2a?
The threat of a spooky scary unavoidable base backlash didn't stop him then and wouldn't have stopped him now.
Us in "the base" by in large are cheap low self esteem whores for anyone with an R next to their name and now there's not enough of us to matter. Politicians know this and is why the past several Republican candidates have been left leaning feminine wash despensers. Again its NOT 1994 anymore they don't need us and even if they did where else are our votes going to go? To the Democrats?
Just for fun go look at an electoral map and a population density map at the same time. Then come back here and with a straight face tell us "the base" not being in line is the problem.
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Romney had already SIGNED INTO LAW as governor an AWB that shares most of the key features of the new proposed AWB.
Ask MA residents how firm Romney was on 2a?
The threat of a spooky scary unavoidable base backlash didn't stop him then and wouldn't have stopped him now.
Us in "the base" by in large are cheap low self esteem whores for anyone with an R next to their name and now there's not enough of us to matter. Politicians know this and is why the past several Republican candidates have been left leaning feminine wash despensers. Again its NOT 1994 anymore they don't need us and even if they did where else are our votes going to go? To the Democrats?
Just for fun go look at an electoral map and a population density map at the same time. Then come back here and with a straight face tell us "the base" not being in line is the problem.
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Mousegun
Member
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I knew the "O" was going to do this when he got re-upped. I bought a second AR about 3 days after the election because I felt so strong about it.
He doesn't care about his cohorts in congress or the senate now that he is in the second go around and he will do as much as he can to get his name in the record books as often as he can.
To paraphrase Liam Neeson at the end of the movie, "The Grey". "I (in this case we) are in for the fight of our lives".
He doesn't care about his cohorts in congress or the senate now that he is in the second go around and he will do as much as he can to get his name in the record books as often as he can.
To paraphrase Liam Neeson at the end of the movie, "The Grey". "I (in this case we) are in for the fight of our lives".
mljdeckard
Member
The last thing I'm going to say is, Obama doesn't want to deal with this at all. I think it takes a high degree of imagination to say that Romney would.
PAULREVERE
Member
You fail to understand politics. Do you think for one minute Romney would have any sort of Political career had he not pandered to the lib-***** in Mass? He publicly stated that he would not sign any new gun control laws if elected Pres. Obongo said nothing of the sort. Just like when people say "Well Gerorge W Bush was for the AWB and said he would sign it if it landed on his desk". Do you think for one minute that Bush didnt know that that bill would never make it to his desk with Tom Delay as Speaker of the House? Politics boys. Politics. Look at the left hand. Focus. Focus...
Jorg Nysgerrig
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Enough politics.
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