Odd failures with ETS Glock .40 16-round magazines

[chardin]

I'm seeing some odd behavior from three ETS Glock .40 16-round magazines I bought. They work fine in my Glock 23 (they stick out the bottom, but that's expected), but they don't work in my Glock 35, which works fine with factory magazines. The failure mode is that the slide locks open with rounds still in the magazine, almost always when the magazine is more nearly full than empty.

A Tap-Rack-Bang clears the issue (and I've been getting practice in that drill because of this, which I guess is a sort of benefit), but it seems odd that it happens this way. I don't think I'm hitting the extended slide stop on the 35, because the factory magazines work. I don't think the magazines are totally messed up, because they work in the 23.

Does anyone know what would cause this to happen, and how it might be remedied short of sending them back? I'd like to tinker a bit and see if I can get them to work as is.

 

[chardin]

Side by side, ETS on the left, factory mag on the right.

 

[chardin]

When the magazine is more nearly full, the odds increase that I'll need a full Tap Rack Bang to clear the issue. At the fourth or fifth round, the odds increase that a Tap alone will cause the slide to slam forward, chambering a round. I add this detail in case it is informative.

I have let ETS know of the issue, but am asking for hints rather than a refund. My hope is that they can use this information to improve their offering. In the worst case, I'll use these mags in the Glock 23 only.

 

[DT Guy]

If it were mine, I'd check (flashlight and camera, too) into the open slide to see what's holding the slide open when that happens. Is it the slide stop? If so, what's in contact with it? Is there copper wash on the slide stop after this happens?

If it's not the slide stop activating, I'd think the most likely scenario would be a round held so tightly by the magazine that the slide can't strip it forward; that should be pretty easy to spot.


Larry

 

[chardin]

Sadly, your reply contains no specifics I can grok and nothing actionable, so it's not really what I'm looking for. I'd appreciate it if you could talk me through this like I am a helot from the gorges, as my father would have said.

 

[tarosean]

Is there generation differences between your G23 and G35 (i.e. gen2 v gen3 v gen4)???

Remedy = Buy OEM mags and toss the cheap knockoffs in the nearest wastebin.

 

[chardin]

Both are Gen4.

I could toss the mags, but I'm interested in why these are failing. It might lead to understanding.

 

[tarosean]

Both are Gen4.

I could toss the mags, but I'm interested in why these are failing. It might lead to understanding.

On your slide stop lever there is a tab that protrudes inward, where the magazine follower engages the stop when the magazine is fully empty. The mag is obviously interfering with that tab

Pull the slide and insert fully loaded mag.. The lips are likely spreading hitting the levers tab or they are just made wrong.
There is likely a slight difference in your guns tolerances too that's why it works in one but not the other.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If it were mine, I'd check (flashlight and camera, too) into the open slide to see what's holding the slide open when that happens. Is it the slide stop? If so, what's in contact with it? Is there copper wash on the slide stop after this happens?

If it's not the slide stop activating, I'd think the most likely scenario would be a round held so tightly by the magazine that the slide can't strip it forward; that should be pretty easy to spot.


Larry

I don't know, that post sounds informative to me. Since you said the slide strips the round and drives forward when you "Tap" it sounds like the spring tension is to great to overcome. The fact there is no metal in the lip of the aftermarket mags can't help either.

If you are going to buy mags for the Glock other than factory look for KCI mags. They work flawlessly and a fair price. (always under $20 sometimes under $15)

 

[chardin]

I don't know, that post sounds informative to me.

So it conveyed information to you. That's swell but it doesn't help me. I didn't use the word "informative", though. I just didn't understand what to do based on it, so I asked for clarification.

Since you said the slide strips the round and drives forward when you "Tap" it sounds like the spring tension is to great to overcome. The fact there is no metal in the lip of the aftermarket mags can't help either.

Which spring do you mean? The recoil spring? The magazine spring? In any case, I doubt that's right; I think tarosean's theory above about impinging the slide stop tab makes more sense.

If you are going to buy mags for the Glock other than factory look for KCI mags. They work flawlessly and a fair price. (always under $20 sometimes under $15)

I'm more interested in seeing how things work. I'm curious. Thanks for the recommendation about KCI mags though.

 

[ROCK6]

Remedy = Buy OEM mags and toss the cheap knockoffs in the nearest wastebin.

I've run several ETS magazines; zero issues. Non-OEM magazines they are, but "cheap knockoffs" is a pretty ignorant statement unless you've tested them out yourself which I'm doubting.

Chardin, you need to contact ETS. If anything, they'll replace them, but would likely be interested if their .40S&W magazines are not functioning in a Glock 35. The only thing I could think of is that the ETS magazines won't work with your extended slide stop and they probably only manufactured their magazines around stock guns. There is something to say about sticking with OEM magazines if aftermarket won't work, but as I said previously, I've had 9mm ETS magazines function perfectly with my Glock 26, 19 (3d and 3th Gen) and a Glock 17 (4th Gen) along with a JRC Carbine and an ATI AR15/Glock pistol.

ROCK6

 

[chardin]

Chardin, you need to contact ETS.

I have let ETS know of the issue

FDSN. Oops! I should clarify: "Further Deponent Sayeth Not".

 

[chardin]

I've run several ETS magazines; zero issues. Non-OEM magazines they are, but "cheap knockoffs" is a pretty ignorant statement unless you've tested them out yourself which I'm doubting.

They don't seem cheap in quality to me either. Nor is that their general reputation. I'm mainly interested because this is such an unexpected outcome.

If this were some non-OEM manufacturer operating under five rotating corporate aliases that was evasive about its materials and manufacturing processes, this post would never have happened. I'd throw them away, wonder why I believed in $2 aftermarket mags made out of boiled socks, and get on with life.

 

[tarosean]

Non-OEM magazines they are, but "cheap knockoffs" is a pretty ignorant statement unless you've tested them out yourself which I'm doubting.

The man posted a question about a non working magazine... The trash bin is the best place for any non working magazine.

They lack the one thing even glock figured out they needed over 30yrs ago.. A metal sleeve to stop expansion/swelling of the magazine..

The only thing I could think of is that the ETS magazines won't work with your extended slide stop and they probably only manufactured their magazines around stock guns.

Extended mag release is a stock glock part on 34/35. It only deviates externally from a normal one...

 

[Glock Doctor]

I don't know? I see a lot of people using these ETS, 'see-thru' magazines; and nobody seems to be having any trouble with them. I, myself, have six, MagPul 15, 'GL9', 100% polymer-body aftermarket magazines for my G-19. I shoot a lot; and I have had zero problems with these MagPul's. In fact I recently ordered the optional heavy baseplates for them; and those things aren't cheap; so that should tell you what I think of MagPul's aftermarket Glock magazines!

I liked, tarosean's first reply more than I liked his second. Here's a thought for you: Check out the slide stop spring on that G-35. Is it in good condition and properly installed? IS IT! My best guess, though, is that the problem is, somehow, in your grip. I doubt that the magazine lips are spreading. If that were the case then you'd have a lot of cartridge slippage, double feeds, and such.

Will these relatively new 100% polymer-body aftermarket Glock magazines wear out sooner than the steel-reinforced factory magazines? Yeah, probably, but we're talking in terms of years — not months — and the price difference is substantial! For that matter ANY steel-body magazine is going to last longer than ANY polymer-body magazine, anyway! The next time you shoot that G-35, smear some Vaseline along the bottom edge of the slide stop, and see where it ends up?

 

[chardin]

Why would the grip matter if it works with the factory magazines? Why would it matter if the Glock 23 works and the Glock 35 does not? How does it help me if you can get those magazines to work? Why did you bother posting? Good God.

 

[Glock Doctor]

'Good God'? You shouldn't talk like that.

I'll tell you, 'Why'. Because I have no idea of either when you did this, or when you did that — THAT IS WHY. You could have tested the factory magazines at the beginning of the week; and the ETS magazines at the end. Who (besides God) knows?

Don't be so snotty! The advice I offered on your (admittedly) very odd problem is valid; but, if you insist on walking around with blinders on, then neither I nor anybody else is going to be able to help you. I own 3 beautifully customized and flawlessly operating Glock pistols, and more than 30 Glock magazines of two different manufactures.

I don't have any sort of problem with any of them; and I did all of the work on these Glocks, myself. You're the one who has, as you put it, 'an odd problem'; and, apparently, a real attitude to go along with it. I'll leave you to your own devices — How's that!

 

[chardin]

You could have left me to my own devices and done a lot more shutting up. That would have been smart.

I've gotten some good advice in this thread. None of it has been yours. If there's an attitude here, you're the one displaying it. Leave, and sin no more, or you'll keep getting the results you have coming.

 

[Glock Doctor]

Junior, I don't think you'd recognize, 'good advice' if I hit you over the head with a club! You're an emoter, not a problem solver. Were you more honest you would have also couched your above reply with the words, 'In my opinion'; but you didn't do that, either — Did you!

 

[Art Eatman]

Re-read the rules of THR concerning hostility between members. Obeying the rules helps one keep the posting privileges.

We don't give prizes for Snark Of The Month.

 

[DT Guy]

I don't know, that post sounds informative to me. Since you said the slide strips the round and drives forward when you "Tap" it sounds like the spring tension is to great to overcome. The fact there is no metal in the lip of the aftermarket mags can't help either.

If you are going to buy mags for the Glock other than factory look for KCI mags. They work flawlessly and a fair price. (always under $20 sometimes under $15)

I thought so....that's what I get for trying to help, I guess!


Larry

 

[chardin]

I thought so....that's what I get for trying to help, I guess!

Hey, your suggestion was helpful. I was just too dumb to understand it.

A picture of the problem is a great idea! I'm going to the range tonight to reproduce the problem, and I'll take the best pictures my cell phone can manage. I'll even have someone else fire the gun in case it is my grip; I don't think that's it, but in the spirit of scientific enquiry I'll examine the possibility.

 

[ROCK6]

The man posted a question about a non working magazine... The trash bin is the best place for any non working magazine.

They lack the one thing even glock figured out they needed over 30yrs ago.. A metal sleeve to stop expansion/swelling of the magazine..

Extended mag release is a stock glock part on 34/35. It only deviates externally from a normal one...

The polymer used doesn't "bulge or swell" like the polymer of old. I've left ETS magazines fully loaded for more than a few months with zero issues. I do agree, non-working magazines should get tossed or used only in FTE/FTF drills (but marked as non working); however, if the magazine is working in one pistol but not another, I would rather find the root cause of the issue first. ETS isn't Promag and there has been a pretty substantial amount of testing with them...I've also been getting good results from Magpul Glock magazines. I still use OEM for carry, but having several fully functional magazines for training isn't a bad thing, especially when they're less expensive and you're less worried about abusing them.

Another option to troubleshoot would be to swap the followers between the two. My ETS followers are mirror images, but that doesn't mean they're perfect OEM matches and to be honest, a lot of polymer magazines can have molding pieces that need to be smoothed or trimmed. From your one picture, with them side-by-side, it doesn't look like the slide-stop shelf on the ETS follower is as wide as the OEM Glock magazine...

ROCK6

 

[chardin]

That, and I'm curious. I like learning things. I know so little, and this is the way I know more: experience, experiment, exasperation.

 

[chardin]

So, pictures, and more information!

The slide isn't so much locked open as jammed open. The slide release doesn't do a thing, and the magazine won't drop; it's held in as if welded in place. So tarosean's idea, while good, was based on my poor information. It's not impingement on the slide release.

The rangemaster took a turn with the Glock 35 and an ETS magazine and experienced the same issue for three out of the first six rounds. So much for the limp wrist idea. It was never really tenable, and now we know it's dead wrong.

Pictures, then!



Factory mags still behave perfectly. ETS mags have behaved this way ever since they were new.

The mystery continues! I'll inform ETS.