Oddball body armor question

[Ian]

I just purchased a set of police surplus level II soft body armor, and upon inspecting it I have some questions.

The vest was made in December 1994, so it's well past it's warranty date - I knew that when I ordered it, and I'm not concerned about it (it is a 100% Kevlar vest; no laminates). However, after talking to PACA (the manufacturer), I discovered that it was never NIJ certified, but instead certified by the state of California's DoJ. So first question, does anyone know anything about the CA certification protocol?

Next, I learned that the vest was originally sold as a level IIa, using two 8-ply panels stitched together at the corners. The seller I bought it from added a third 8-ply panel to both the front and back. They claim that in-house testing shows this arrangement to slightly exceed level II standards. So second question, is there any reason to disbelieve this claim?

I've attached a photo of the label on one of the panels, FWIW.

 

[kellyj00]

you may want to check out www.theboxotruth.com and check out their body armor testing.

Very interesting results.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

It looks like the panels are designed to stop only the bullet, not to mitigate any blunt trauma injuries... going from what I read on the label. The NIJ standard addresses both, which is why a bullet can sometimes 'fail' a vest, without actually penetrating the vest all the way.

 

[BullfrogKen]

I don't think the general membership is competent enough to speak on this subject. We might have a body armor rep, and I know one of our moderators, Correia, sells it in his shop. Short of that, anything we could offer is mere speculation.

I would imagine that the CA DoJ had good protocols, and if they had a requirement to be met, it likely was and worked as CA's testing process claims it should. During the time it was warrantied. Its impossible to know whether its still as effective without actually shooting that vest now, or more effective with that additional panel sewn in.

 

[Ian]

Yeah, I was afraid that might be the case. Just not sure where else to ask.

 

[Browning]

I've seen a couple sites that took old level IIA armor and then tried it out to show that it works, so I know that it does still do its job well after its warranty date. However I've never heard to the California Dept of Justice as an agency that does certifications of body armor. I'm sure that they have some kind of standard of testing and I'm sure that they've posted it on the web somewhere, a search for this would probably help you.

10 minutes later after a search...........

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/12360-12370.html

www.ustestlab.com/services.htm
Middle of the page, look like the same tests.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12360.php?PHPSESSID=6bdaa90fca66a366290d4a4805a68c7f

 

[Sidewinder6]

2A is minimal protection regardless of who makes it. It is likely a bit thinner for comfort which is a trade off.

 

[Thin Black Line]

Next, I learned that the vest was originally sold as a level IIa, using two 8-ply panels stitched together at the corners. The seller I bought it from added a third 8-ply panel to both the front and back. They claim that in-house testing shows this arrangement to slightly exceed level II standards. So second question, is there any reason to disbelieve this claim?

Ian, I bought a Paca vest new made in 1997. It came from the factory NIJ
rated at IIA and has 18 ply kevlar. If the seller added an 8 ply panel, I'd be more
interested in how he did that. Was this a panel that was originally a 16 ply
that he unstitched from yet an older set and then just set loose inside of the
cotton carrier next to your current panels? Is it inside of a water-resistant
soft plastic inner carrier? Wet kevlar fabric loses a certain amount of ballistic
protection.

 

[Ian]

The original vest used two 8-ply panels stitched together at the corners (about an inch of stitching at each corner - just enough to hold them in position relative to each other), for a total of 16 layer front and back. That was rated by the California DoJ to stop 9mm FMJ @ 1100fps and 158gr .357 SP @ 1300fps (very slightly higher velocities than NIJ IIa). The seller than added a third 8-ply panel to the front and back, for a total of 24 layers each. It does appear that the extra panels came from IIa-equivalent pairs that were detached from each other.

The vest, both originally and as sold to me, is simply a cloth carrier with front and back pockets sized to hold the panels snugly in place. No waterproof layer, though the kevlar itself is treated with Zepel D for water resistance.

 

[Thin Black Line]

The Kevlar panels I have are sewn inside of their own "plastic" pouches and
then put in the armor carrier.

If you can touch soft silky white cloth, then it's not sealed properly.

 

[don_hamer]

Have you tested it yourself yet? It sounds like a fun project.