Off the beaten media trail

[hdwhit]

For case tumbling, we seem to mostly talk about steel pins, corn cobs and walnut shells. There have been the occasional post of someone using rice or mica, its mostly the "big three".

Does anyone have any experience tumbling brass in other media? Sand. Silicon dioxide. Vermiculite. If so, would you please share the material, how you tumbled it (dry vs wet, rotary vs vibratory) and the results you got.

Thanks

 

[dgod]

I have a 80# bag of media used in the oilfield to plug well pipe. My son got it as it was busted (Slightly), and he couldn't take it back to the warehouse.For me, it works every bit as well as Walnut (I've been using it since 1985 when I started. Find a Well Hand, he can hook you up.

Dan

 

[hdwhit]

dgod, I have to admit, that's something I would never imagined using - had I even known it existed! Sounds interesting. I guess its off to the oil patch I go.

Thank you.

 

[mmorris]

steel pins, corn cobs and walnut shells

What are the shortcomings of the three cited materials that compel you to seek out alternates?

 

[Blue68f100]

You have to be very careful some stuff for it's very abrasive. Unless your using a rotary drum some of the media will be to heavy for the vibrating type to roll the brass.

 

[mdi]

As a confirmed "DIYer" and tinkerer, I've tried many different media for brass. Plus, I was looking for something I wouldn't have to order from a reloading supply and wait. I have used beach sand, glass beads blast media, dried beans/peas/rice, cat litter (Good Mews works well), wood chunks, commercial resin and ceramic media, SS pins, and a few others I can't remember right now. Most work to some degree, some better than others, and some just fail. SS pins in liquid are more trouble than I like (mix, tumble, rinse, separate, rinse, dry). Commercial resin and ceramic tiles are very aggressive and leave brass with a matte finish. Some pet shop litter works well, but others not so well. PetSmart dark crushed walnut works, but a "desert blend" walnut litter does not. Rice (short grain, long grain) seem to break down rapidly and soon becomes dust. So, years and several attempts later I settled on corn cob blast media, 14-20. Corn cob last media is more consistent and seems to be harder than cob pet litter. This is my choice, and a bag lasts a very long time...http://www.drillspot.com/products/499763/econoline_526020g-40_40_lbs_blast_media

I think the popularity of the "Big Three" are because they work, they are simple, and have been used for many, many years commercially and have drifted over to home reloaders. Sometimes one just wants to know (all knowledge is good) and maybe the ability to run down to the local hardware store or grocery store to get supplies is preferred. I buy some things for my hobby from the drug store (stuff for bullet lube), grocery store (bullet lube, case lube), and hardware store (gun lube, tumbling media, assorted chemicals for lubes and cleaning).

 

[higgite]

Why reinvent the wheel? I'm thinking the "big 3" are the big 3 for a reason. But, I was wrong once before.

 

[hdwhit]

mmorris wrote:
What are the shortcomings of the three cited materials that compel you to seek out alternates?

Curiosity.

...and in all honesty, pride. I would love to be able to come up with something I could source (or re-purpose) locally from the farm that would deliver acceptable results.

When I moved to Arkansas, the state motto was "The Land of Opportunity". In my case, that turned out to be true - although I didn't fully realize those opportunities until I left Arkansas and went to Texas - and I would like it to remain a land of opportunity.

 

[hdwhit]

mdi wrote:
Sometimes one just wants to know (all knowledge is good) and maybe the ability to run down to the local hardware store or grocery store to get supplies is preferred.

The town I'm moving to has 1,600 people. The whole county 10,000. There is a hardware store. There is a grocery store. There is no longer a lumber yard or feed mill. I can mail order anything I need, but if there's something that will do a good job and not need to be mail ordered, all the better. Alluvial sand. River gravel. Fish scales. Fiber from cattail stalks.

 

[grandpawj]

Sand does a beautiful job, however, don't expect them to come out shiney! They look like brushed jewelry, if that makes any sense.

 

[jmorris]

I have tried all sorts of stuff, if its been suggested, I gave it a shot. Kitty litter was the worst by far, might as well used cement and water.

Anyway, I'll admit it's a waste of time other than the education I gained from the time and money spent.

I can use the same corncob media for 10's of thousands of cases, stainless media lasts forever. The money saved by going with anything else is inconsequential. More money could be made picking up coins in gas station parking lots. It really is the least expensive part of reloading and just washing cases in soap and water would do all you really need to do.

 

[hdwhit]

jmorris wrote:
Kitty litter was the worst by far, might as well used cement and water.

Kitty litter is ground clay, so comparing it to cement is quite apt.

stainless media lasts forever.

I wonder about bronze?

The money saved by going with anything else is inconsequential.

Agreed. But then the money I save reloading is also inconsequential, but I do it anyway for a whole host of other reasons, not the least of which is that I can say that I load everything* I shoot.

Similarly, if the clay-bearing alluvial sands near the springs that feed the reservoir can be made to work acceptably, then I would have one more part of the reloading equation that originates on - and is unique to - my 118 acres.

It really is the least expensive part of reloading and just washing cases in soap and water would do all you really need to do.

Agreed.

I'm still sitting (not literally) on 700 rounds of 223 that were reloaded in the early 1980s that got nothing more in the way of cleaning than having the big chunks vacuumed off of them and then being wiped down with a towel. The other 1,300 rounds all went bang and hit the target where they were supposed to.

* Exception is made for rimfire and the first box of cartridges that go through a new gun so that the gun manufacturer can't blame my reloads for any problem.

 

[hdwhit]

blue68f100 wrote:
You have to be very careful some stuff for it's very abrasive.

Roger that.

I load in batches of 50 or 100, so if I screw up a batch of 223 or 9mm brass, it won't break the budget to replace them.

Unless your using a rotary drum some of the media will be to heavy for the vibrating type to roll the brass.

I currently used a home-made rotary tumbler, but I have another thread up right now asking about whether, based on a video posted by Aardvark Reloading (and with a more on-point video posted by one of the respondents), it would make sense to use a Harbor Freight 1 & 1/4 cubic foot cement mixer as a rotary tumbler (it's got more capacity and it cheaper than the ones from Hornaday, Lyman and RCBS).

 

[jmorris]

Agreed. But then the money I save reloading is also inconsequential, but I do it anyway for a whole host of other reasons, not the least of which is that I can say that I load everything* I shoot.

I understand, same reason I have owned presses by pretty much everyone that makes them and tried pretty much everything suggested in tumbling.

Nothing quite like having first hand knowledge. I can tell you that there is a reason the popular choices are popular though.

 

[RussellC]

One reason I went to steel pin tumbling. A little AA W&W, touch of lemishine and good old tap water.

I have also heard of types of ceramic tumbling media, but the pins not only make the brass look brand new, pocket primers are spic and span as well.

Have not bothered with the ceramic media, pin are perfection, so havent bothered.

As usual, because of personal preference and practice, YMMV.

Russellc

 

[Rule3]

this is oly a tist

Curiosity.

...and in all honesty, pride. I would love to be able to come up with something I could source (or re-purpose) locally from the farm that would deliver acceptable results.

When I moved to Arkansas, the state motto was "The Land of Opportunity". In my case, that turned out to be true - although I didn't fully realize those opportunities until I left Arkansas and went to Texas - and I would like it to remain a land of opportunity.

Soap and water, rinse, drill. Call it a day!
For more shine, put some Vinegar in the water, but if you add some salt, then the internet says it turns to HCL and salt will leach your brass. 5% acetic acid diluted in a gal of water is not gonna make a stronger solution of HCL and it all depends on how long the exposure is. People have no problem using Citric acid??

Whats' in Birchwood Caseys brass cleaner?? Phosphoric acid.

https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/geta...-Data-Sheets/33845-Case-Cleaner-2012.pdf.aspx


The current media(s) works, the others have been tried and not as good.

Buy a 40# bag from ZORO (two different media sizes) it's $5.00 to ship. You will have enough for YEARS.

https://www.zoro.com/value-brand-blast-media-corn-cob-14-to-20-grit-crn2-40/i/G1695775/

The whole topic (not directed at you personally) of "surgically clean brass has become an obsession with some folks. Probably the most talked about "reloading" topic on the interweb. Stars off with dry tumbling, then the wet tumblers chime in, and then it becomes a Dillon thread

Clean the brass so there is not "stuff" that will damage the dies and it will shoot as well as super shiny brass. Actually, super clean brass is more friction on the resizer.

 

[Jack B.]

I use pet store corn cob pet betting. Its larger than the stuff you buy from reloading companies. I only use it for 30 caliber or larger cartridges but it's a lot cheaper and it works fine And no it's not dusty.

 

[hdwhit]

Rule3 wrote:
...surgically clean brass...

I'm not trying for "surgically clean brass" (which you noted). Never have. Currently I, 1) wash it in weak acid, 2) resize it, 3) tumble the lube off in walnut media and 4) call it a day.

If I can get similar results tumbling in the alluvial deposits (sand contaminated with a highly absorbent red clay) then I could start using it myself (and get the prestige of saying I source my own tumbling media), but I could then get some lab tests comparing it with corn and walnut and explaining why it works so well, put up some you-tube demonstrations and start a mail-order business for it as a new tumbling media. As several people have already said, polishing brass is a frequently (and often passionately) discussed part of the reloading process, so people looking for something new different and (arguably) better might be persuaded to choose Katy Branch brand media. If that took off it could provide employment for a couple of people who currently don't have decent job prospects.

It's all ultimately self-serving for me. I have a neurological impairment. I will be living in a county that constantly flirts with bankruptcy. The county seat is 7 miles away from the farm and the county hospital can be reached in 15 minutes on a good day. If the hospital goes bankrupt and has to shut down, then the nearest medical care for me will be an hour away. Getting something - anything - started that can employ people is the key to keeping the county alive and making it possible for me to continue to live there and have my private shooting range.

 

[Malamute]

I posted in the other thread going about case cleaning. I just started wet cleaning with a harbor freight dual drum rotary rock tumbler, a drop of dish soap, and 1/2 teaspoon of lemi-shine dishwasher additive (grocery store or walmart will have it), which is basically citric acid powder, which can be bought online for very cheap. Its working very well so far. No pins. No dry media or dust. Tumble, rinse, lay out on towel to dry, tipping them to drain water out, but I'm going to try window screens next time to dry. More details in the other thread. I'm trying a batch just in a bucket with hot tap water, lemi-shine and drop if dish soap. Cover brass, slosh around, slosh/stir again now and then, and will rinse a bit later. Have heard of others doing this, they didnt have a tumbler yet. It may be fine and no tumbler needed if the brass isnt that bad.

 

[Rule3]

I'm not trying for "surgically clean brass" (which you noted). Never have. Currently I, 1) wash it in weak acid, 2) resize it, 3) tumble the lube off in walnut media and 4) call it a day.

If I can get similar results tumbling in the alluvial deposits (sand contaminated with a highly absorbent red clay) then I could start using it myself (and get the prestige of saying I source my own tumbling media), but I could then get some lab tests comparing it with corn and walnut and explaining why it works so well, put up some you-tube demonstrations and start a mail-order business for it as a new tumbling media. As several people have already said, polishing brass is a frequently (and often passionately) discussed part of the reloading process, so people looking for something new different and (arguably) better might be persuaded to choose Katy Branch brand media. If that took off it could provide employment for a couple of people who currently don't have decent job prospects.

It's all ultimately self-serving for me. I have a neurological impairment. I will be living in a county that constantly flirts with bankruptcy. The county seat is 7 miles away from the farm and the county hospital can be reached in 15 minutes on a good day. If the hospital goes bankrupt and has to shut down, then the nearest medical care for me will be an hour away. Getting something - anything - started that can employ people is the key to keeping the county alive and making it possible for me to continue to live there and have my private shooting range.[/QUOTE

Good luck in your quest,

 

[hdwhit]

Malamute wrote:
I'm trying a batch just in a bucket with hot tap water, lemi-shine and drop if dish soap. Cover brass, slosh around, slosh/stir again now and then, and will rinse a bit later. Have heard of others doing this, they didnt have a tumbler yet. It may be fine and no tumbler needed if the brass isnt that bad.

What I currently do is similar.

A teaspoon of Lemi-shine to a quart of hot water with a drop of detergent. Cover. Agitate for 30 seconds every five minutes or so (this assures that where the cases touch they aren't shielded from the acid) for 15 to 30 minutes. Rise thoroughly in hot water. Lay out flat on a towel and point a box fan towards them. I usually do this in the evening so I just leave the brass overnight and it is dry the next morning. This pretty much uniformly removes the tarnish from the surface of the brass and makes it easier to see imperfections and irregularities during visual inspection.

Later, when I size the brass, it gets lubricated; every cartridge (or course) for bottleneck cartridges, but every 5th for 9mm or every 10th for straight-wall pistol cases. Yeah, I know it's not "necessary", but it sure makes the while sizing operation go much more smoothly. After sizing, the lubricant is tumbled off in a rotary tumbler using walnut shell media. This removes the lubricant and imparts a modest shine to the case that facilitates a second visual inspection.

I am not looking for "surgically clean" brass. What I want to do is 1) get the existing tarnish removed to aid in visual inspection of the cases, and 2) reverse the oxidation that the tarnish represents so that if this brass is stored for twenty years (as it might well be) it is less likely to be corroded when I need to unpack it.

 

[hdwhit]

Rule3 wrote:
Whats' in Birchwood Caseys brass cleaner?? Phosphoric acid.

Ahh, now I had not thought of that; Diet Coke (no point using the real stuff with the sugar) as a wet tumbling solution.

I'll give it a try.

 

[Nature Boy]

I'm not trying for "surgically clean brass"

My favorite is "jewelry grade". HAhahaha!

 

[mdi]

A much talked about, but really not very important subject. I started reloading "pre-web" so I didn't know tumbling brass to a high gloss, inside and out, was a necessity. I reloaded for a long time before I attempted tumbling and I just wiped each case with a solvent dampened rag a I inspected it. No ruined dies, and I could spot defects. The only brass I tumble to get a shine (or when I'm bored and have nothing else to do) is my Garand and 45 ACP brass. Shiny brass is easier to find in the dirt, rocks and trash where I shoot...

I met some really good pistoleros in the '60s, and they shot brown cased ammo...

 

[hdwhit]

Inspired by Rule3's comment about Birchwood Casey's brass cleaner containing phosphoric acid (the same stuff that is in Coke a Cola), I figured I ought to try it out.

So, here is a sample of 223 range pick-up brass (mixed headstamp, but mostly LC78). This is all brass that was rejected from my reloading stream for one reason or another, but it had the tarnish necessary to be part of the experiment and if it was damaged by the Coke a Cola, it would not have been a problem since it was already regarded as scrap.




My hypothesis was that the phosphoric acid in Coke a Cola would work to remove tarnish to a degree comparable to solutions containing other weak acids such as Vinegar, Lemi-Shine or Barkeeper's Friend. For an informal experiment like this, visual assessments of tarnish removal were deemed to be sufficient.

To test the hypothses, it was necessary to immerse a sample of brass in Coke a Cola for a period of time and determin its effect on the amount of tarnish on the sample cases. Diet Coke was chosen as it does not contain sugar which could have the after-effect of making the brass sticky.

And so here is the experimental apparatus:




The brass were put into the container and capped. The brass agitated peiodically during a five hour immersion in the Diet Coke. At the conclusion of the five hours, the brass was removed, washed thoroughly and towel dried.

And here are the results.



The before and after pictures were taken on the same background under the same lighting source using a camera without a flash to ensure maximum comparability.

Well, what do you think?