Offbeat idea for indoor range

[parsimonious_instead]

Multiscreen cineplex closed down for good fairly close to where I live.
Given the state of the economy, and the general decline of moviegoing, it's unlikely to reopen even with new ownership/management.
It occurred to me that the building would be ideal or nearly ideal to be retrofitted as an indoor range.
Front to back, it's at least 25 yards.
The building is sturdy - additional backstop material might not be needed.
There is already a heavy duty ventillation system - perhaps only minimal modification might be needed for fume/lead filtration.
There is already a fair amount of sound buffering between the "auditoriums" and also between the facility and the outside air.
The gentle downward slope of the floor might actually help mitigate bullet deflection risk.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Right off the bat the usually high ceiling is a drawback. All that air needs to be moved/handled. Maybe a skeet range.. that'd be cool. Only indoor clay range I know of is in Germany.

 

[Arp32]

That indoor range in Germany is HUGE compared to a movie theater. It's more like a blimp hanger.

Correct on the ceiling, you'd definitely want to drop that down so you weren't having to change all that air.

You've also got the floor slope to deal with, and the fact that there is actually too much space to deal with.

I'm not certain what you'd save in the end. You're paying a premium in that you're buying 8-20 times the SF you need, plus all the associated land for parking (movie theaters park at a much higher rate than regular retail), and that's before you put a dollar in the tenant improvements.

 

[481]

Multiscreen cineplex closed down for good fairly close to where I live.
Given the state of the economy, and the general decline of moviegoing, it's unlikely to reopen even with new ownership/management.
It occurred to me that the building would be ideal or nearly ideal to be retrofitted as an indoor range.
Front to back, it's at least 25 yards.
The building is sturdy - additional backstop material might not be needed.
There is already a heavy duty ventillation system - perhaps only minimal modification might be needed for fume/lead filtration.
There is already a fair amount of sound buffering between the "auditoriums" and also between the facility and the outside air.
The gentle downward slope of the floor might actually help mitigate bullet deflection risk.

I think it has potential, especially the downward slope offered by the floor. Wish I had the nerve to throw some captial at something like that, but until the economic environment improves (hopefully a this coming election will help with that FWIW), I'd be pretty cautious.

Is this something that you are actually planning to do and if so, have you looked at what liability insurance will cost yet?

 

[Sam1911]

The building is sturdy - additional backstop material might not be needed.

Not a chance. A sturdy building may stop bullets, but that doesn't mean -- at all -- that it is something that would stand up to thousands of rounds a day, or that even the first round would be redirected or captured in a safe way. Shooting at a concrete block wall (from the inside, no less) would be not cool. A concrete building would need just as much bullet-trapping equipment installed as would a wood-framed building.

There is already a heavy duty ventillation system - perhaps only minimal modification might be needed for fume/lead filtration.

The air exchange rates required now for a firing range are much higher than for any normal commercial HVAC system. And, they aren't set up at all for the intense filtering of exhaust air that is required to contain the lead.

There is already a fair amount of sound buffering between the "auditoriums" and also between the facility and the outside air.

A lot of that sound-deadening is materials applied to or hung on the interior walls. The best of that material is very porous and will capture lead dust from the air. Many indoor ranges were built with various types of sound-deadening interior cladding that is now totally saturated with lead, and that lead cannot be cleaned off of or out of that material. Removing, containing, and disposing of those contaminated interior materials is a HazMat nightmare. The first step to converting a cineplex would be to strip all that stuff out.

I'd love to see a shooting facility built out of such a place, but it would cost hundreds of thousands to make a shooting range in it, and millions to make it all it could be -- a true "Shooting-MultiPlex.

 

[parsimonious_instead]

Sam1911:

Thank you for the insightful rebuttals to my points. It's starting to sound like it's easier and cheaper to erect a purpose-built shooting facility than to retrofit a place that only superficially sounds like a potentially good shell of a building.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

The indoor range closest to where I live is not so good and I think the market could stand to have a nice (the key word here) indoor range where I live. I would include a food and bevarage area for people to socialize afterwards or while waiting as well as a nice pro shop. Also, I would make sure that there is about a 10 to 15 lane wide area that is separate from the main range so that you can hold classes in there (maybe even have some well known instructors rotate through). What is your competition and local zoning laws like?

 

[parsimonious_instead]

My usual local range is an outdoor place with about eight - ten positions at 15 yards, and 22 positions at 25 yards. All shooting stations are covered.
It's a really friendly place - other than the classic safety rules, we're pretty laid back except for restrictions on calibers (.22 and pistol only, due to proximity of affluent neighbors in huge homes). $125 a year, shoot as much as you like. Actually, if suppressors were legal in my state we'd allow just about anything, in fact one guy brings his AR platform rifle with his .300 AAC Blackout handloads.

The only real alternatives are the upcounty range called Blue Mountain - it's expensive hourly with lousy hours (3 days a week, 10am - 3pm), Coyne in Yonkers ($20.00/hr), and an upcoming private range that get this - will be a couple grand for a few years' membership (unlimited usage) - the "cheapo" plan is still hundreds per year, with an hourly fee of $25 on top of the membership.

A range down in Mt. Vernon has been under development for years. A different range in Mt. Vernon, and others in Port Chester and Pleasantville have shut down over the years.

I think the shooting sports in my area are on a gradual upswing, but due to local anti-gun attitudes and strict zoning/enviro regs, it's an uphill fight to build a new range in my area.
There is one opening up in my area, but I think that it helps that the guys behind it are former military and since their existing shop caters to local, county and state police, they are buttressed by support from the law enforcement community. There are also sizable offices of three letter agencies in the area, too - their existing pro shop services those needs.
That said, the high costs of membership make me not want to join. The generally unfriendly attitude in their store makes me not want to join (they treat you like gold if you're current or former military or SWAT. They could care less if you've never served, just a patrol officer, or a plain-vanilla "civilian").
Contrast that with the gun dealer I go to at the bottom end of the county. Longest serving Yonkers cop, but with no Cop vs. Non-LEO attitude. I try to buy just about everything from him, despite the inconvenience of going to his shop. If he were to open up a range, if I could afford it, I'd join and go in a heartbeat...
If the movie theater conversion idea were actually workable, I still wouldn't have enough dough to go ahead with it, but I'm becoming increasingly plugged into my local pro-2a gun community, and therefore increasingly exposed to people who could make that sort of investment...

 

[mnrivrat]

Well if you need all the range equipment I can help.

12 lanes up to date (5 years old) with air handling , etc included. Has to be disassembled and moved but would save a lot over buying new.

 

[parsimonious_instead]

Well if you need all the range equipment I can help.

12 lanes up to date (5 years old) with air handling , etc included. Has to be disassembled and moved but would save a lot over buying new.

I sincerely appreciate that, but even before Sam1911 threw a much needed cold dose of "reality potion" all over me , I was mostly posting as a hypothetical.

Actually, I just thought of something - the guy trying to open up his Mt. Vernon range might be interested - OK - PM me your email address and I'll at least approach him with the idea. I'm sure his office is closed for the next day or two due to "hurricane-itis."

 

[Sam1911]

Thank you for the insightful rebuttals to my points.

No problem! Wish I was Captain Encouraging instead of Mr. Cold Dose.

Ironically, I was doing some chrono testing the other day and found that a concrete block had been left on the berm where some of my shots were impacting. My 9mm cast bullet loads had smashed it to powder in only a couple of shots.

Probably a good indicator of what to expect. Few structures are built with high-strength poured, reinforced concrete walls (just waaay overkill and unnecessary for above-ground commercial buildings, and even so shooting at a wall like that won't contain bullets in the proper way.

I've also been involved with several indoor ranges which did (or tried to) improve ventilation and lead containment to the EPA requirements. The air exchanges required turned them into wind tunnels. On cold days with the heat on, turning on the ventilation system would suck all the heated air out of the room and lower the temp to match the outside in a matter of a minute or two. And the filtering equipment was FAR removed from what an HVAC system uses, as well as being on the exit side, not the intake side.

 

[zorro45]

range idea

S&W closed their range earlier this year, the S&W Forum has a discussion about it, I have not heard when/if it is reopening. Personally I would prefer a members only facility.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/248915-smith-wesson-shooting-sports-center-has-been-closed.html