offered a stolen gun

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

thorn726

Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2004
Messages
1,388
Location
berkeley, CA
i hate these scenarios.
idiot found a rifle in someone's "camp" (homeless encampment)

one can imagine it did not get to the first person's camp by legal means.

since it is hidden, it's not like i can call the cops, they would jack guy up and find nothing.

worse, if i snitch fools off, i'd be implicated, and for a number of reasons this would cause big problems for me.

my fear is the gun gets sold to some real loser who uses it for a crime.

what to do?
 
Turn it in.

Many police departments will accept a weapon if turned in, and will exempt the person turning it in from certain charges. (not the big ones of course, like murder, etc.)
 
that would require me buying it form the loser, and then getting police to take it from me ?

i'd consider it if i could afford it but i dont got the $100 bucks.

probably could get it for less, might be gone by now anyway.
i'd really be afraid to get near it really.
 
I don't know about anyone else who may have read your 'scenario' but as far as I am concerned, I really have no clear picture about what it is you have written.

Are you trying to say that you or someone else found a gun, hidden somewhere in a 'homeless' person's camp and; that if you go to the authorities the owner (or person who currently has possession) of the gun would somehow realize it was you who had reported the gun to the authorities thereby causing you some sort of problems?

Why not think of the problems that could be caused if someone shot you with the same gun. Which scenario is better - you reporting it or you being shot by it. Of course, there is always the chance that this firearm is legally owned. As you said:

one can imagine it did not get to the first person's camp by legal means
Click to expand...
One can also imagine that it is there by quite legal means. Imagination can have it lots of ways. If you are truly fearful about it, why not ask the owner if you know who that is or; just call the police if it wories you tha much and let them figure it out.
 
Thorn, let's look at it from another angle. You know of a rifle which may or may not be stolen. Your friend, who is now the "possessor" (if not the rightful "owner") wants to sell it, out of hand, cash deal, no background check. What if he sells it on the cheap to someone who will use it in a crime - or who will re-sell it to someone else who'll do that? By taking action now to determine whether or not the gun is stolen, you can interrupt this potential chain. I'd have no problem asking your friend to call the cops with the serial number, asking whether or not the gun is stolen. If it is, he can hand it in, along with a description of where and when he found it, and some gun-owner can get back his property. If it's not listed as stolen, then perhaps by taking it, your friend stole it himself! - which is not a good thing...
 
ok lemme give you a more clear picture-

first off, the odds of a homeless person in a camp in the hills legally owning a rifle- zero. enough discussion was had to determine this rifle was stolen from a house, stashed by one thief, found by another.

if i report the current person having the gun to authorites they WILL KNOW it was me, and like i said, the gun being "stashed" still, all police could really do right now is harrass guy and find nothing. possibly find a scope in his pack, i did see them passing that around.

Why not think of the problems that could be caused if someone shot you with the same gun.
Click to expand...

well, if you knew the full scope the situation, which is tough to convey in a few lines, but put it this way- i am in far greater danger of a bunch of losers attacking my house if i snitch than of being shot with the rifle by whoever ends up with it.

so again, yes i am tempted to call police, but if you read what ive said already, that will have little effect, and more than likely will implicate me to the losers.

i wish i had more money, i'd just buy it and turn it in.
 
Whoa! You find a rifle you THINK MIGHT be stolen. So you are asking if YOU should STEAL it? And some folks see nothing wrong as long as the owner MIGHT be up to no good or the rifle MIGHT have been stolen.

The only legal thing you can do is call the police and report your suspicions. If you choose not to do that, forget about it.

Seems to me the only person certainly contemplating a crime is you.

Jim
 
First how do you know the person is indeed homeless? Could they be long term camping, but not to your standards?
If the rifle was hidden then I guess that means someone was going thru the camper's belongings uninvited, which to me sounds like a thief. Most people who find a camp that looks inhibated but with no one around just walk on by without disturbing anything.
Just because the camp doesn't look like it meets your standards then why must the rifle be stolen or illegal and why call the authorities?
I would worry more about the person wandering thru the woods rummaging thru unattended camps then the unknown camper who have hidden the rifle while away from the camp. Just imagine you camping and going off to get water, firewood, or whatever and having someone going thru your things while you were away.
 
Walk away.
Quickly.
Don't drop a dime.
Don't buy the gun.
Don't hang out in homeless encampments.
Just walk away.
Quickly.
 
Steelcore

Hit it on the head. Rummageing around in goodys that aren't yours isn't very cool. Campsites, homeless or otherwise aren't to be violated by any legit persons, called "trespass" and "criminal trespass", removing any item is "theft". Having knowledge of actual a crime, can be considered "aiding and abetting", in my home state theft of a firearm is a felony.
 
mbs357 said:
The only thing I can really say, and this might get on your nerves, is to keep better friends.
Click to expand...
Best advice so far... You're going to get burned BIGTIME one way or another if you keep hanging out with the kind of people who sell guns they know are stolen.

You're straining your soup to get the gnat out of it but you're failing to notice that the main ingredient of the soup is crap.
 
Whoa! You find a rifle you THINK MIGHT be stolen. So you are asking if YOU should STEAL it? And some folks see nothing wrong as long as the owner MIGHT be up to no good or the rifle MIGHT have been stolen.

The only legal thing you can do is call the police and report your suspicions. If you choose not to do that, forget about it.

Seems to me the only person certainly contemplating a crime is you.
Click to expand...

dude, what are you smoking?

where did i say anything about stealing it?

GUYs- really, i am not ignorant here, i know what im doing.

as far as get better friends, well yeah obviously- thing is these arent exactly friends. you guys dont understand the dynamic on the street.
i can try to explain, but you have to be able to take my word for some of this, and actually read what im saying, otherwise we end up with the above quote which blows me away. HOLY MISUNDERSTANDING

there are a few people on the street who are not all bad. i need them to work for me loading my truck at times. so by keeping tabs on who is up to what, i know who is safe to hire to work for me. by having the stronger, somewhat in charge homeless do honest work for me for darn good pay, i keep idiots from robbing my truck, etc. people know not to mess with me.

the clown in possesion of the weapon is actually someone i try pretty hard to avoid, this was one of the very few times we ever spoke, and he actually came up to talk of this gun with someone else.
Check it out= see now how this works. since some homeless trust me, are my friends, the rest dont watch their mouth as much as they should.

so before i let someone into my truck, to work at someone's house, i know what to expect.

but Ok, the worthy advice is to try and somehow aquire the weapon and turn it in. this may be feasible.
 
First how do you know the person is indeed homeless? Could they be long term camping, but not to your standards?
If the rifle was hidden then I guess that means someone was going thru the camper's belongings uninvited, which to me sounds like a thief. Most people who find a camp that looks inhibated but with no one around just walk on by without disturbing anything.
Just because the camp doesn't look like it meets your standards then why must the rifle be stolen or illegal and why call the authorities?
I would worry more about the person wandering thru the woods rummaging thru unattended camps then the unknown camper who have hidden the rifle while away from the camp. Just imagine you camping and going off to get water, firewood, or whatever and having someone going thru your things while you were away.
Click to expand...

please, you gotta be kidding me.

OK CAMP in this definition means illegal homeless camp up in the hills. ZERO possibiltiy it was "some camper not meeting my standards"
i was at one time one of those people who slept in the hills.
the are ZERO firearms allowed up there as it is divided between eastbay regional park (firearms only allowed at range) and UC berkeley property, wildlife observation or whatever they call it.

camping is NOT allowed.

i cant believe i have to explain all this, but i guess i do.

what we have here is TWO thieves. one camps in the hills, stole a rifle. number two figures out where number one's camp is, goes up and snags the rifle.

number two is dumb enough to talk about it in front of me, play with a scope in the park.

ADVICE taken- if possible , purchase and turn in. otherwise, walk away.

dude was pretty hot to get rid of it as he had enough problems and was worried about being in major violation if caught with it. that's the evil of speed though- he's an addict, the gun is worth money.
 
I would buy the gun provided you have the funds, contact the police have them run the numbers, one of three things will result.

1 the gun will turn up being stolen you'll turn it in to the police and possibly get a reward for the owner.

2 the gun will either be legal or stolen and not reported in that case you've bought a $100 whatever gun.

3 same as above only you sell it to a pawn shop get you're 100 bucks back and the firearm will "be legal again" and out of the hands of thugs.
 
oh i missed this one

Thorn, let's look at it from another angle. You know of a rifle which may or may not be stolen. Your friend, who is now the "possessor" (if not the rightful "owner") wants to sell it, out of hand, cash deal, no background check. What if he sells it on the cheap to someone who will use it in a crime - or who will re-sell it to someone else who'll do that? By taking action now to determine whether or not the gun is stolen, you can interrupt this potential chain. I'd have no problem asking your friend to call the cops with the serial number, asking whether or not the gun is stolen. If it is, he can hand it in, along with a description of where and when he found it, and some gun-owner can get back his property. If it's not listed as stolen, then perhaps by taking it, your friend stole it himself! - which is not a good thing...
Click to expand...

well thankfully there was some sensible response.
but still i guess i gotta spell it out. see the bold up there.

already been there. first off "possesor" (since he doesnt actually carry it around and it is stored probably in a dumpster or something)
is in violation if it is in his control.
so he's not asking anyone about the serials.
second- i mentioned "how about we run the numbers" and got a very nervous response to that.

THE GUN IS STOLEN. TWO TIMES OVER. once form owner, then again from the thief.
I KNOW THIS. please stop making me nit pick the heck out of every detail here, it is such a waste of time.

yeah, i want to get the stupid thing off the street, without getting myself in trouble. thats what i want to do.


but i am incredibly poor, so i cant buy it myself to turn in.
calling the cops wont do anything because for the 4th time- person isnt keepgin the gun on him.

i appreciate the few helpful replys, and am just too tired for the rest, think what you want, im nuts, whatever.

seems like there's a good chance i could turn it in with no trouble, or buy it, stash it somewhere, and then call the cops and give them location.

hopefully ill get enough work soon that next time i will have the $$.

i knew i didnt want it for myself, but i dont want it on the street either.
calling the cops on this guy wouldnt get it off the street.

REALIZE - yeah, i hire homeless people. i try to hire the ones who are least likely to spend the $$ on drugs, but it doenst always happen. some people will really suprise you how lame they are.
but i am NOt going to hire the illegals, sorry. that is the absolute last resort.
 
So the picture is a whole lot clearer now with a little splaining (as Ricky Ricardo would have said)! If I got it right now, you have never actually seen the gun, is that right? You said someone else talked about it in front of you. For all you know then, this was pure BC (buffalo chips). So going from that, you don't know where the gun is hidden (but from what you first said I thought you knew where it was hidden because you had seen it, I was apparently wrong if I have it right now).

This makes it much easier to see the dilemma you have, however; if you rat this guy out - so what. He can think it is you, but does not know - maybe it was someone else whom he had a case of the big mouth around. Of course, if it was only said in front of you, then it is either you or the guy he was talking to who was there while you were there. Yes that could be a problem.

To solve it all, you could call the police, tell them what you overheard, and then go somewhere else to find your help. There have got to be other areas to find down and out people who need work. Then again, maybe you ought to look for people who are somewhat better off, less likely to be street dirtbags who steal guns (or who would attack you for going to the police), and who need work just as badly. Try a neighborhood shelter instead of a homeless persons camp.

Now that I just read it again, I saw you said you give them darned good pay; if it is so darned good then hire someone who is better. Not only the homeless will guard your truck. I know a lot of guys used to work shape up on delivery trucks. They showed up at about 0530 and waited on the drivers. The drivers readily knew who had a home and who was street trash. They usually picked the more reliable, more stable sort of guys - not the ones who lived on the street. If you really want someone who is probably more trust worthy, hire someone who has a regular address in a slightly more decent part of town and who can tell you whom he has worked for in the past.

As for the gun thing, I would call the police myself. I would not buy it, that would be a crime since it is a stolen gun and you know it is stolen. In fact it would be several crimes. As for calling police: I am pretty sure none of these dirtbags (I am particularly talking about guys you think would attack you at home and not all street people in general) would try it with me or with my house - unless they were not afraid of dogs or me. Believe me I have had more than a bit of experience with street folk, living here in NY very close to (and for years right in) NYC. We have more than our share of homeless street folks (used to be called bums). I still think some of the other states give em free bus tickets to the Port Authority Bus Terminal in NYC just to get rid of em, just like they did about 40 years ago; the living is still pretty easy up here welfare wise.

Good luck, hope you figure it out for the best. Nice to see you are giving it some thought.

Best regards,
Glenn B;)
 
thorn726 said:
so before i let someone into my truck, to work at someone's house, i know what to expect.
Click to expand...


Let me get this straight -

you hire homeless people off the street and have them work in your customer's homes???.

Ever hear of Elizabeth Smart?

It's bad enough to even let someone in my house for a job, but to find out that one of them is a homeless person is terrible. Do you tell the homeowner that you are hiring homeless people?.
 
krochus said:
I would buy the gun provided you have the funds, contact the police have them run the numbers, one of three things will result.

1 the gun will turn up being stolen you'll turn it in to the police and possibly get a reward for the owner.

2 the gun will either be legal or stolen and not reported in that case you've bought a $100 whatever gun.

3 same as above only you sell it to a pawn shop get you're 100 bucks back and the firearm will "be legal again" and out of the hands of thugs.
Click to expand...

4. He'll be arrested for receiving stolen property.

For criminey's sake, just call the police and turn the guy in, and be done with it. Sometimes doing the right thing doesn't feel good...even in Berkely.
 
thanks m-rex, thats kinda what i worried about, why i thought of stashing it to be found by police.

again, turning this guy in will do zero- if guy was wlaking around with it in his pack, i would already have told him he had about as much time to get rid of it as i had to use my phone.

the homeless stash thigns everywhere. in the hills, in dumpsters, sewers, steam tunnels on campus.

stupid thing could be ANYwhere. turning guy in only turns him, and a bunch of other people against me, and wastes police time rifling (heh) thru people's stuff.

i will report on this later, i need to get something to eat, might as well see what happened.\

It's bad enough to even let someone in my house for a job, but to find out that one of them is a homeless person is terrible. Do you tell the homeowner that you are hiring homeless people?.
Click to expand...

yes always. most people are glad to be giving someone a hand.
do you do a thorough background check on your garbage man?
we're not running around inside expensive houses unsupervised by the owner here, we're hauling junk from garages and yards

again, yer thinking too much. ive been runnign this biz for 5 years- and guess how i got started.

truck has been in biz for 20 years, i was one of those homeless who started out helping driver.
some of the guys who work for me use the money to get a cellphone and get a real job.

the logic behind the quote is sad, really.
i guess you'd be happier i hire total strangers with homes i have never been to?
or illegal aliens?

you take your chances hiring ANYONE- when I hire a homeless person, i have my own background check system in place. besides i haul trash, its not like anyone gets many oppurtunities to steal, we're usually outside, in lots, construction, etc.

again! i check these people out first, get to know them slightly before bringing anyone to a job i would need to care about that kind of thing.

thieves need not apply. there are lots of guys who are always saying "hey man why won't you hire me sometime"
and i say
"because you are a thief" or whatever.
 
What kind of gun is it? I think I would handle the situation differently if the rifle was of some value or not. Also, you may be able to turn it in in such a way that keeps your identity secret. Heck, just take it to the cops and say some homeless guy handed it to you and you took it to keep it off the streets. They don't need to know the guys identity or that you paid for it. Sounds like you could get the rifle for next to nothing from this guy.

Don't you have any cop friends? That would be a good start. You do need to at least try to get the rifle off the streets.
 
Thorn,

All disagreements aside, you really need to contact the local authorities about the firearm, and the guy who was trying to get you to take it.

What you're doing is noble, but it doesn't insulate you from less scrupulous members of the homeless community enwrapping you in things you don't want to have attached to you. I'm assuming you worked very hard to grow your business to what it is so that you could offer an honest chance to others less fortunate. A mix up with a possibly stolen firearm, and this 'bad' homeless fellow has the potential to knock down all that you've built up. I strongly encourage you to contact the authorities.
 
krochus said:
I would buy the gun provided you have the funds, contact the police have them run the numbers, one of three things will result.

1 the gun will turn up being stolen you'll turn it in to the police and possibly get a reward for the owner.

2 the gun will either be legal or stolen and not reported in that case you've bought a $100 whatever gun.

3 same as above only you sell it to a pawn shop get you're 100 bucks back and the firearm will "be legal again" and out of the hands of thugs.
Click to expand...

I don't think I would expect to get a reward from the original owner, especially since Thorn may be under suspicion for stealing the gun or purchasing a stolen gun.

I believe that buying a gun that is believed to be stolen would be a fairly serious crime, regardless of what your intentions are. Your list of what might happen is a little short. It very well may be that Thorn ends up getting arrested for purchasing a verified stolen gun [via the check with the police] that he believed was stolen. I don't know. Maybe somebody can tell me. Is knowingly purchasing a stolen gun or purchasing a gun believed to be stolen a felony?

You cannot launder a gun via a pawn shop and make an unreported stolen gun legal again. It will be just as much stolen and unreported if you pawn it as it was in the vagrant's camp. Moreover, should the gun later be reported stolen by the original owner, the stolen gun will be traced by through the pawn shop's gun register and the person who pawned the stolen gun will have a tremendous amount of difficulties explaining how it was that he came into possession of the stolen gun that he subsequently pawned for cash, thereby converting the stolen gun into spending money.

I don't know about y'all, but I sure would not want my name associated with a paper trail tied to a gun that may have a negatively checkered history.
 
Why not just forget about it. Do nothing. It's not your job to fix all of the worlds problems. Be selfish, worry about #1 and forget about all of the "what ifs".
 
You could probably panhandle $100 in a day in Berkeley - then you'd have the money to buy the gun and turn it in. Head on down to Moe's with a sign "Need money to buy rifle" - wear camo and bring a dog or a kid, I see lots of them with the panhandling crowd these days, a sure indication that they increase the take. I'm sure you'll get what you need quick. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top