Officer cuts off woman's finger

[ArmsAkimber]

So the officer didn't say anything about the uniform status of "AJ," or whether he was in a marked cruiser?

So much for the other side of the story. According to the Detroit News, "AJ" was on undercover duty at the time. Now, I'm no expert on law enforcement, but I have the impression that undercover means something besides blue uniform, fancy hat, cruiser with "POLICE" in big bold letters, etc.

Cover-ups take many forms. One can attempt to hide information. One can also disseminate mis-information. One can also tell the truth, shade it with innuendo, dismiss really bad things as trivial (not THAT much of the finger was lopped off), and omit relevant information.

Apparently, the thin blue line is really sharp; sharp enough to cut a finger on (or off, for that matter).

I think this scenario has already been commented on by another member, but I want to float a hypothetical question to those who are inclined to side with "AJ." If Joni was a licensed CCW holder, and was armed, waiting in her car, and was approach by a man in plainclothes, claiming to be a cop, who than began grappling with her, and she ended up sending AJ to the big precinct house in the sky, having every reason to believe she was being car-jacked, how many would be calling for reserved judgment until all sides of the story are heard?

 

[2nd Amendment]

Golgo, ya know, you lay on sarcasm with a trowel.

 

[Daniel T]

I think this scenario has already been commented on by another member, but I want to float a hypothetical question to those who are inclined to side with "AJ." If Joni was a licensed CCW holder, and was armed, waiting in her car, and was approach by a man in plainclothes, claiming to be a cop, who than began grappling with her, and she ended up sending AJ to the big precinct house in the sky, having every reason to believe she was being car-jacked, how many would be calling for reserved judgment until all sides of the story are heard?

I have to say that if she was as drunk as the police have indicated, and was CCW, licensed or not, and shot someone, she'd be a murderer. It's good for everyone involved that she wasn't.

 

[TheeBadOne]

I have to say that if she was as drunk as the police have indicated, and was CCW, licensed or not, and shot someone, she'd be a murderer. It's good for everyone involved that she wasn't.

Demise, haven't you learned a thing on here yet? You never talk about the persons actions or responsibilities and if you do a hypothitical it's open ended on the persons part but a dead end on the cops part....

 

[ArmsAkimber]

I have to say that if she was as drunk as the police have indicated, and was CCW, licensed or not, and shot someone, she'd be a murderer. It's good for everyone involved that she wasn't.

So, AJ performed a breath test and was able to quantifiably determine she was "drunk," ( is that 0.1, no wait, it's 0.08....and dropping) before he dragged her out of the car and began lopping off a body part?

I really didn't expect an answer to my question...


Regarding the drunkness issue: Does having a BAC above whatever arbitrary number government decides means "drunk" mean you are no longer permitted to defend yourself? If I am sitting in my living room, enjoying my second glass of Chardonnay while watching "Farscape," and a thug (jackbooted or otherwise; not clearly identifiable as law enforcement) kicks in my door, am I no longer permitted to defend myself with my Combat Commander because my BAC is above 0?

If so, color me a criminal, but I'll draw a bead, regardless.

 

[Daniel T]

ArmsAkimber:

Regarding the drunkness issue: Does having a BAC above whatever arbitrary number government decides means "drunk" mean you are no longer permitted to defend yourself? If I am sitting in my living room, enjoying my second glass of Chardonnay while watching "Farscape," and a thug (jackbooted or otherwise; not clearly identifiable as law enforcement) kicks in my door, am I no longer permitted to defend myself with my Combat Commander because my BAC is above 0?

What does that have to do with Carrying a Concealed Weapon? If the state you live in requires that you not be intoxicated when you are CCW, and you get drunk and shoot someone with said weapon, then you are guilty of a crime. Just like running over someone with a car, except the law won't be as nice to you about it.

If you're drunk in your home and shoot someone, be prepared to aggressively defend your actions, because hard questions about your ability to make reasonable decisions while drunk will be forthcoming.

 

[ArmsAkimber]

What does that have to do with Carrying a Concealed Weapon? If the state you live in requires that you not be intoxicated when you are CCW, and you get drunk and shoot someone with said weapon, then you are guilty of a crime. Just like running over someone with a car, except the law won't be as nice to you about it.

I don't think CCW is relevant, and I didn't mention intoxication in my original question, as I'll address below. But the issue of self-defense "under the influence" interests me...

I haven't seen an answer to whether the law forbids me to defend myself if my BAC is north of zero, whether that defense take the form of a gun or a car.

Also, notice how my question concerning defending myself with a firearm after two glasses of Chard becomes "you get drunk and shoot someone." What is drunk, and why was someone shot? Not relevant?

As I said, my proposed hypothetical question did not mention that the woman was drunk. So, I'll ask the question again, stipulating sobriety on the part of the lady:

If Joni was a licensed CCW holder, and was armed, and sober, waiting in her car, and was approach by a man in plainclothes, claiming to be a cop, who than began grappling with her, and she ended up sending AJ to the big precinct house in the sky, having every reason to believe she was being car-jacked, how many would be calling for reserved judgment until all sides of the story are heard?

If the scenario played out as I describe, I suspect there is a contigent here who would just cluck there tongues and say "too bad" if the thug was just a two-bit criminal, but would want the woman's blood if the thug turned out to be a plainclothes cop who failed to credibly ID himself.