Officer Shot By Partner During Pit Bull Attack

[cassandrasdaddy]

i had amother rotti grab me by the head and remove me from near her pups never broke the skin and strangly enough i didn't argue with her friend said the look on my face was priceless left tooth imprints but no bleeding i;ve always been referred to as real fast when i train but the dogs are faster

 

[XDKingslayer]

Suppose my question would be for what reason did the officer think it was OK to shoot the dog and why is it in the pound it did nothing wrong. The dog was in its home and defending its territory. Sorry to hear the officer was injured but in both cases they did bring it upon themselves.

Defending it's territory or not the police had a right to be there and therefore had a right to defend themselves from a dog attack. It's no different than if one of the parolees attacked them.

The dog is probably in the pound to be quarantined and monitored for rabies. That's normal for a bite.

However, the fact that you didn't know why the dog is in the pound points to rest of your post being complete and utter bovine excrement.

 

[GigaBuist]

Let the dog bite you, put muzzle up its ass an fire.

That's a section of femur bone. From a cow. It was in one piece when we gave it to my dog.

Don't let dogs bite you.

 

[LongRider]

mountaindrew

Long rider, if police came into your house and YOU jumped out and attacked them, don't you think you would get shot at? Yes it was defending it's house, but the police were defending themselves. Should they let the dog eat them?

Point taken. Though dogs rarely if ever kill an adult. I should probably say I am biased in favor of dogs, that I tend to like dogs more than most people. In this case the dog was secured in a locked room. To me that means whatever else they may have been the owners did take reasonable precaution to protect the public. From the report it looks like the owners were not allowed to open the door and introduce officers. I am guessing that the door was kicked down so it is easy to see how the dog thought it was protecting property. IMO is perfectly appropriate for dogs to attack anyone who trespasses damages or steals property. Just as it is OK for me to defend my property. I am not saying that the owners were not turds from the report they are, but the dog need not be penalized for that. Also the fact that one officer shot the other does indicate to me they over reacted. Probably because I have seen so many negative over reactions to dogs I have to wonder if they over reacted to this dog. I quit raising pits because of all the negative over reactions I got from people. That really was the point of my post that I got the impression that the officers may very well have created the whole scenario intentionally or not and the dog should not be punished for their errors. Just as I would not expect you to be punished if unidentified police barged into your home unannounced without cause or warrant and you protected your home. Secondly I agree with the OP about how quick dogs can be and tried to point out that trying to shoot one is rarely if ever the best option. Just as if someone were to attack you with a knife from within ten feet. Going for your gun would not be your best choice, that staying calm and using your brain is a far better choice IMO

 

[Jeff White]

It could get costly civilly as well

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...CF762DB9A37F48DB862574650043B0B8?OpenDocument

Mo. man awarded $7.25 million in pit bull attack
ASSOCIATED PRESS
06/11/2008

INDEPENDENCE, Mo. -- A Kansas City-area man who was almost killed in an attack by two marauding pit bulls has been awarded more than $7 million.

Jackson County Circuit Judge Vernon Scoville ruled Tuesday that the dogs' owner and several other defendants should have known that the dogs were vicious and prone to attack.

Alan L. Hill suffered severe injuries and nearly died after he was attacked on May 4, 2006, while mowing a vacant lot he owned in Independence. He spent more than a month on a feeding tube.

Scoville ruled that the attack left Hill with permanent disfiguring and disabling injuries.

The Lawsuit named the couple who owned the property the pit bulls escaped from, the owner of the dogs and a handyman previously convicted of criminal charges in the case.

 

[alex_trebek]

IMO is perfectly appropriate for dogs to attack anyone who trespasses damages or steals property. Just as it is OK for me to defend my property.

I am a little confused on this point. Using lethal force to protect property is illegal, right? If so, how is using a dog any different from a gun, knife, iron skillet, etc?

And if it is illegal, then shouldn't the dog owners be at least partially liable (civil and criminal), especially if it can be proven that the dogs were being trained/encouraged to be agressive?

I also mean to clarify that the person(s) in question are on parolle, therefore do not necessarily have the same rights as a normal law-abiding civilian. Also they did not advise the officers of the dog, which is their responsibility IMO.

I know that this comes down to common sense, if you enter someone's home unwelcomed/uninvited you are putting your life in danger. This is true regardless of what side of the law you are on, or the type of crime you intend to commit. But I suppose from a legal standpoint, wouldn't the dog owners be liable?

Sorry to ramble on here, i am just confused as to the general legal consensus here, ok to use dog to defend property, not ok to use gun to defend property. Both have to ability to kill, or wound. I just dont see that much of a difference, besides the dog being alive and a gun isnt.


(sorry if this is OT for the general section, and should be in the law section)

 

[XDKingslayer]

Just as I would not expect you to be punished if unidentified police barged into your home unannounced without cause or warrant and you protected your home.

That's the problem. These weren't unidentified police entering unannounced.

Dog gets shot. Good shoot. End of story.

Or at least that's how it should have went, not shooting your partner instead and then letting him bleed while you sit in the car in shock...

Again, the dog is not being punished (yet) it's more than likely quarantined to check for rabies. Again, normal protocol.

 

[American_Pit_Bull]

Posted by Hardware:
A dog exceeding 65 pounds is not a pure bred pit bull.

I don't agree with the accuracy of this statement...

I have been involved with the "pit bull" breeds for 20+ years and I have seen and owned plenty of pure bred APBTs that were over 65lbs. My Staffies were never that large, which is to be expected, but I have had several UKC 'PR' APBTs who's pedigrees have gone back dozens of generations.

I do not breed any longer, but all three of my current, dual registered, APBTs are over 65 lbs.
Just because many dogs are professionally line bred and they fall outside of the breed standard, doesn't mean that they are not "pure bred" dogs. You couldn't count the number of GRCH PR APBTs that are over 65lbs.



I am active in the ATTS, and I could go on for an hour about the differences in human aggressiveness and animal aggressiveness... Any dog, 15lbs to 150lbs, that bites a human without provocation should be put down.

 

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Yeah Pilot. It's times like that when it gets tough. I've come to thing of her as my guardian angel after that incident.

 

[Rugerlvr]

:
The female officer's actions were covered up, and she was promoted to detective for her gallantry.

all in the name of diversity

This kind of sexist BS is not highroad.

The shooter could have just as easily been a weak-willed man as a weak-willed woman.

 

[alex_trebek]

I think the poster was not saying anything about one gender vs. another, simply pointing out that there is a liability for firing minorities that do not exist for other groups of people.

 

[ilbob]

Almost all dog problems are really owner problems. A lot of dog owners think their dogs are really just little furry people and treat them that way. Dogs don't understand that real well. they expect someone to take a firm hand and be the pack leader. If not, they get confused and a lot of bad things can happen.

As for dogs that are a little more aggressive like pits, GSDs, and rotts, it is true they can be really nice dogs. It is also true they can be real terrors. Most, but not all of the time, it is because the owner is lazy and won't give the dog the time it needs. Dogs need exercise and if they don't get it they get bored and can get into trouble. You cannot expect a dog that is left alone by itself most of the time to deal with human beings very well. Dogs, expecially those breeds with agression issues, absolutely must have socialization and exercise.

And I agree that a dog that bites someone without provocation needs to be put down.

 

[pyle]

Situations like these need not happen. I don't care who you are or what you're shooting at you always need to have situational awarenes. I've been hunting a few times when a bird flew right in front of a hunting partner - you can't shoot at that time. Once I was swinging on a Wood Duck with a 12 gauge - the duck saw me and did a 90 degree turn - right toward my hunting partner's blind - if I hadn't been paying attention - I would have swung right in and shot when the bird was between me and my hunting partner. And he was only about 30 yards away from me (my partner that is - the duck was about 20 yards). Obviously, accidents happen but they won't happen as often if folks are paying attention....

 

[Girodin]

I have been involved with the "pit bull" breeds for 20+ years and I have seen and owned plenty of pure bred APBTs that were over 65lbs

There is a lot of BS in papering dogs. The breader is the one who fills them out thus it is very easy to cover up the infusion of mastiff blood. This practice having occured with in certain lines (whopper for example) that are still called and papered as purebreds is fairly well known.

I cannot say whether EVERY pit over 65 lbs is pure or not but I will say that papers dont really mean a thing, the vast majority of gamebred dogs or dogs comming from those lines are sub 65lbs, and that a great many of the real big "pitbulls" have mastiff blood in them.

Depending on ones breeding goals that may not be a bad thing per se. I am a big fan of well bred bandogs infact. I am also more interested in performance health and temperment (what APBTs were bred for for many many years) than papers, standards, ribons etc. Dishonesty is a bad thing however. People peddling cross bred dogs with fake pedegrees is unfortunate and upsetting.

THR is not the place for this discussion but anyone with google can find more information on this type of thing than they will care to read.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

bob said it best

"Almost all dog problems are really owner problems"

sadly we often punish only the dog

 

[Girodin]

The point that dogs need training is spot on.

As for dogs that are a little more aggressive like pits, GSDs, and rotts

There are a bunch of issues with that statement. More agressive than what? What is the definition of agressive? What type of agression? For example with pitbulls (a highly problematic term in and of its self) are we talking humnan agression or animal agression. They are very very different issues. Game bred pits are amongst the least human agressive dogs around. That is what happens when manbiters are culled hard for generations.

The issue with many of these breeds of dogs is not whether they are naturaly more agressive than other dogs as a whole, something I would dispute. The issue is that if a 10 lbs pomeranian attacks you it can't get through your jeans, if a 110 lbs rottie (or one could insert dozens of breeds here) goes after you with the same degree of vigor it can do a frightening amount of damage very quickly and will be much harder to stop. As others have mentioned there are many breeds of dogs that can snap bones in half like they were tooth picks. Larger dogs are more of a liability than smaller dogs should they misread a situtation. They are also a disaster waiting to happen when an owner encourages certain types of behavior and responses.

From a dogs perspective the police comming in and arresting its owner is not any different that a buglar comming in and attacking them. The responisbility lies with the owner. The police were well justified in shooting the dog in that situation. The officer screwed up but I think many here are failing to consider the speed at which a situation like that unfolds two people and a very fast dog moving in different direction in a small space. Now add the fear and adrenaline of having a large agressive dog attacking you. No one is going to be as calm as if they were shooting ducks. Another person moving in tight quarters can cross the muzzle of one's pistol much more easily than the muzzle of their 26" barreled shotgun in the field. With out seeing exactly what happened (or even having a detailed desripction) it is difficult for me to come down on anyone too hard.

 

[XDKingslayer]

Any dog, 15lbs to 150lbs, that bites a human without provocation should be put down.

I don't agree with this. A poorly trained dog doesn't deserve to die because it's owner is a smacktard. Take it away, train it and then let someone adopt it who will properly maintain it.

If it can't pass agressiveness tests after that, then by all means destroy the animal.

 

[brerrabbit]

I think it very likely the officer was hit by a richochet.

I tell you true them pits are tough.

 

[3KillerBs]

Quote:
Any dog, 15lbs to 150lbs, that bites a human without provocation should be put down.
I don't agree with this. A poorly trained dog doesn't deserve to die because it's owner is a smacktard. Take it away, train it and then let someone adopt it who will properly maintain it.

If it can't pass agressiveness tests after that, then by all means destroy the animal.

Its an animal, not a person.

People get second chances because they are human beings and thus capable of rationally rethinking their moral choices. You don't put human beings in potential danger to give an animal a second chance.

 

[XDKingslayer]

Its an animal, not a person.

People get second chances because they are human beings and thus capable of rationally rethinking their moral choices. You don't put human beings in potential danger to give an animal a second chance.

Oh give me a break, this is done at adoption centers for abused animals all over the world with no danger to humans at all. These animals are adopted out to people each and every day and live happy new lives, are turned into service dogs for the handicap and also become search and rescue dogs saving the lives of the very same human asshats that abused them in the first place.

 

[American_Pit_Bull]

POsted by XDKingslayer:
Oh give me a break, this is done at adoption centers for abused animals all over the world with no danger to humans at all. These animals are adopted out to people each and every day and live happy new lives, are turned into service dogs for the handicap and also become search and rescue dogs saving the lives of the very same human asshats that abused them in the first place.

They do this with fighting dogs (i.e.: animal aggressive dogs), but I haven't heard of a case where they trained a dog that attacked a human, to be a service animal.

I would be interested in any links that you may have.

 

[cpttango30]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Let a dog bite you, How about this Hero you go in and let the dog bite you and I will stay in the car.

I can speek about dog bites from personal experiance too by the way. They are no fun no fun at all. After the picture below my wrist hurt for atleast 2 weeks stright. It hurt so bad two days after this photo that I could not move it at all. So Once again Hero you go in and I will wait for you to shoot then I will come in.

 

[WC145]

I agree that dogs are products of their environment and training. The dog's natural instinct is to befriend and protect humans, but those instincts can be bred and trained out of them and they can be turned into aggressive potential killers, you can read about that everyday in one paper or another.

I have a bullmastiff and a dogue de bordeaux and they are both babies with the family and let the kids run roughshod over them but let a stranger come around and you can see their attitude change. They are trained to listen and obey but not trained for protection, it's a natural role for them. We (my family and the dogs) are a pack to them, and they behave accordingly when any member is threatened. You'd have to kill them to get to anyone in my house.

 

[M60]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Let a dog bite you, How about this Hero you go in and let the dog bite you and I will stay in the car.

I can speek about dog bites from personal experiance too by the way. They are no fun no fun at all. After the picture below my wrist hurt for atleast 2 weeks stright. It hurt so bad two days after this photo that I could not move it at all. So Once again Hero you go in and I will wait for you to shoot then I will come in.

And that was just a wimpy little Shepard. Not even a tough as nails and stronger than superman Pitbull!


Just kidding of course!

-Mark.

 

[Girodin]

Take it away, train it and then let someone adopt it who will properly maintain it.

And who will pay for that and spend the time doing it? Seriously, who?

Go on petfinder.com and you will see that dogs are not exactly a rare commodity. There are tens of thousands of homeless dogs in the US. There are healthy dogs that are destroyed every day only for lack of space and resources at shelters. Very little training goes on in the shelters I have been involved with. Various foster homes are a different case but again they can only take so many dogs and ones that simply need to learn things like house and leash manners are better prospects for foster homes and eventual adoption. There are many people who will not adopt a dog with a biting background and not passing that info on is HIGHLY irresponsible. I know of specific animals that have been in rescue for a very long time while people attempt to deal with agression issues and find suitable homes. How many other dogs are destroyed that those rescuers may have been able to rehome in the same time?

I love dogs but when one is aware of the realities of rescue then one can appreciate the saying that you cannot save them all nor should you.

Further your ideas about why the dog bit someone and fixing the problem are highly over simplistic for some cases.

It may be the case that not EVERY dog that bites someone with out provocation should be PTS. I am much closer to that camp however than one that believes that all dogs that bite without provocation (and that is the big thing right there) can be reformed and rehomed.

Simply from a utility maximizing position efforts to safely rehome biting dogs are often a losing position. There are dogs being destroyed daily for much worse reasons than that they put teeth on a human. It sucks and I wish it were not the case but it is.