Ohio - Elyria's Midway Mall Removes "No Guns" Signs

[qlajlu]

http://www.ohioccw.org/content/view/3844/83/

Written by Rich Hardway
Thursday, 22 March 2007

I have been asked to write an account about my experience in changing management’s opinion and policy on posting “No Guns” signs on the doors at Elyria's Midway Mall in Elyria, OH so others might learn from the way I handled the situation.

I was asked by Daniel White, OFCC* Director-At-Large, to verify that the Midway Mall had indeed posted signs on the doors as reported by a member in the forums on the OFCC web site. He asked me if I would be willing to talk to someone about their policy if the doors were in fact posted.

I accepted his request on behalf of the members of OFCC and went to the mall that evening after work. I walked the perimeter of the mall to look at each door and indeed all but one was posted. I then went to the office of the mall but found it to be closed because it was after 5:00 PM.

I then decided this was a good thing because it gave me a chance to prepare what I wanted to say to the mall managers. I then went to the information booth where they rent the strollers and wheel chairs to ask who I might be able to talk to about the signs or someone in public relations. The lady handed me a business card for the assistant manager of the mall.

That night at home I developed my plan of action with the power points that I wished to cover in a meeting with him the next morning

The next morning bright and early I went to the mall wearing an OFCC shirt and a large smile on my face. I asked to speak with the gentleman on the card I received the night before. When he came to the counter, I introduced myself and asked him if we could sit down and discuss the mall’s new policy prohibiting legal concealed handguns.

We began our conversation on what OFCC is and represents. Then we began talking about the mall’s reasons for changing their policy and posting of the property. Within a few minutes, he stopped me and said that he wanted to bring in a couple other management members. After a brief introduction to the general manager, Mark, I began all over again. I asked them why they suddenly changed their policy. Mark said that they wanted to create a safer environment for their customers’ shopping experience. I asked them if they truly feel that they had achieved this goal by refusing to allow law-abiding citizens in the mall that had properly and legally obtained a permit from the state of Ohio to carry a concealed handgun. I went on to say that I don’t feel they did. They made a reference to the recent shooting in a Utah mall and that they did not want a similar action in their mall. I fully agreed with them that I also never want to hear or see such a thing in any mall.

I then countered with the facts. The facts are that a deranged teenager went to that mall with a premeditated plan to illegally assault and kill as many victims as he possibly could. If it was not for the fact that an off-duty police officer was dining in that mall at the time, many more innocent people would have become victims at the killer’s hands. The truth is that due to the off duty police officer’s ability to carry a concealed handgun, he was able to cut the rampage short until police arrived and put an end to the carnage. This man saved innocent lives.

I then asked them if they really think that any sign posted at the door of the Utah mall would have stopped the teen from entering that mall on that day with the small arsenal that he had to support his plan of terror. In fact, that mall did have a “No Weapons” policy. John Lott reported on his website and linked to a picture of the actual sign on the doors. You can view the sign by clicking here.

I asked both managers if they had ever read the concealed carry law, as I handed them a copy of it. Then I made the following statement: “People that have a license to carry a concealed firearm issued by the state of Ohio have obtained that license after successfully attending the mandatory class, been fingerprinted by their local Sheriff, and passed a complete background check that the Sheriff has performed.”

When someone has a license you know that that person is someone that has a clean background and has never been convicted of a serious crime. You can not say that about anyone who comes into your mall that has not received a license just off the fact they don’t have a license

Then I told them that people that have a license would do one of two things when they see the sign on the door. They will either return to their car and remove their sidearm, locking it in the trunk before returning to shop or they will do their shopping at a retailer that respects and supports their Second Amendment rights under the law.

Let’s look at Wal-Mart for a moment. I think we can all agree that Wal-Mart is one of the largest retails in the world and they understand the thinking here. They removed their signs and changed their policy to a pro-choice stance and with that they let the American people decide if they want to carry a concealed handgun or not with their license.

Although law-abiding people will honor your request to not bring a weapon into your mall, criminals will ignore your signs and do as they please. Which customers would you prefer do their shopping here?

The Manager was agreeing with what I was saying and he said that the mall would remove the signs and make changes to their policy as well.

Three hours later I received the following e-mail from him.

Mr. Hardway:

Thank you for coming in to see me today and addressing your concerns. After talking with you and considering the facts that you have voiced we have reconsidered our position and have elected to remove the signs prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons. They have all been removed today.

Our intention for posting the signage was an attempt to create a safer environment for our shoppers. However, your points are well taken and thus we have removed the signage.

We hope you and the other members of the O.F.C.C. will continue to consider the Midway Mall a safe place to shop in the future that does value and respect your rights under Federal and State laws. We recognize the fact as pointed out by you that people whom have been issued a permit to carry a concealed weapon are law bidding citizens and that’s the type of shoppers we want in our stores.

Thanks again.

Mark J. Bressler
General Manager
Midway Mall​

As OFCC members, we can all make a difference with a polite and understanding voice. The use of diplomacy with education and the truth must be our weapons of choice. The facts are a powerful thing when delivered with respect.


Mr. Hardway is a proud OFCC member that shows what one dedicated individual can achieve. This is his first article for our website.

*OFCC=Ohioans for Concealed Carry
Emphasis mine

 

[DWARREN123]

That went well but only because someone was willing to listen to reason and not go on emotion.

 

[JohnL2]

Holy sweet mother...

Common sense actually wins out.
( looking out the window to check if certain animals are flying by)

 

[LAK Supply]

This is great! At least we know there are still a few people that are willing to use common-sense in this area.

The thought that a deranged killer is going to stop his killing just because there is a "no gun" sign posted somewhere is a lapse in logic that likely resulted in additional needless deaths at Trolley Square.

I am sending the mall manager an email if I am able to locate his address. This man's decision may save some lives someday.

 

[Troutman]

At times its a slow uphill battle.

 

[qlajlu]

I am sending the mall manager an email if I am able to locate his address. This man's decision may save some lives someday.

LAK Supply, I think that is a good idea. Perhaps you would be kind enough to post that address here, if you find one, so others here at THR could also e-mail him their thanks for making such a decision.

 

[AnthonyRSS]

I then countered with the facts.

That gets em every time. This story gives me the warm+fuzzies.

Anthony

 

[EricTheBarbarian]

you know something, i actually noticed that when i was home for spring break and went to the mall. thought they forgot to put them up or someone stole them lol

 

[bensdad]

I feel like that guy in "It's A Wonderful Life", and I don't even live in Ohio.

Once his email is posted, I'll send him a thank-you.

 

[lepmik]

Terrific true story. I thank the person who put forth all that effort for a good cause.

 

[thexrayboy]

Even the blind squirrel finds the nut sometimes. It's good to see reason and rationality take precedence over blind emotion. Tis a rare thing but reminds all that sometimes we can make a difference.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Well done!

 

[Tim James]

Some quotes here: "Common sense actually wins out." "It's good to see reason and rationality take precedence over blind emotion." "[Facts] get em every time."

These responses worry me. They're a good example of why gun owners hit their heads against the wall thinking everyone else is irrational, ignorant, and lacking common sense when trying to explain firearms issues. It's fun to talk that way on the Internet when we're all together, but gun owners usually miss great opportunities to make a difference in face-to-face interaction because they come into the discussion with that negative paradigm.

Look at the story again, with my comments added:

We began our conversation on what OFCC is and represents. [This is when he should launch into a tirade of facts and logic, right?? NO!] Then we began talking about the mall’s reasons for changing their policy and posting of the property. [First, he listened to the other side to get them to open up a little bit.] Within a few minutes, he stopped me and said that he wanted to bring in a couple other management members. [The assistant manager sees this guy is reasonable and this could be going somewhere.] After a brief introduction to the general manager, Mark, I began all over again. I asked them why they suddenly changed their policy. [Again, asking to understand and genuinely listening is the only way to open them up.] Mark said that they wanted to create a safer environment for their customers’ shopping experience. I asked them if they truly feel that they had achieved this goal by refusing to allow law-abiding citizens in the mall that had properly and legally obtained a permit from the state of Ohio to carry a concealed handgun. [This is such great stuff.] I went on to say that I don’t feel they did. [Slowly starting to voice your opinion.] They made a reference to the recent shooting in a Utah mall and that they did not want a similar action in their mall. I fully agreed with them that I also never want to hear or see such a thing in any mall. [Well done, this puts both parties on the same side of the issue.] I then countered with the facts.

Notice how he doesn't dive in and start attacking with facts. He didn't get all worked up about it on the forums on the night before; he thought about his plan himself. As he continues to discuss, he makes sure to ask management for their perspective and their opinion. Afterwards, he's not afraid to disagree in a constructive manner. Instead of walking away frustrated, he got results! Forum members here ought to study this story if they'd like to influence friends and authorities in the future. I also recommend The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People to learn how to approach these confrontations from a productive perspective.

 

[CNYCacher]

Some quotes here: "Common sense actually wins out." "It's good to see reason and rationality take precedence over blind emotion." "[Facts] get em every time."

These responses worry me. They're a good example of why gun owners hit their heads against the wall thinking everyone else is irrational, ignorant, and lacking common sense when trying to explain firearms issues. It's fun to talk that way on the Internet when we're all together, but gun owners usually miss great opportunities to make a difference in face-to-face interaction because they come into the discussion with that negative paradigm.

Look at the story again, with my comments added:

We began our conversation on what OFCC is and represents. [This is when he should launch into a tirade of facts and logic, right?? NO!] Then we began talking about the mall’s reasons for changing their policy and posting of the property. [First, he listened to the other side to get them to open up a little bit.] Within a few minutes, he stopped me and said that he wanted to bring in a couple other management members. [The assistant manager sees this guy is reasonable and this could be going somewhere.] After a brief introduction to the general manager, Mark, I began all over again. I asked them why they suddenly changed their policy. [Again, asking to understand and genuinely listening is the only way to open them up.] Mark said that they wanted to create a safer environment for their customers’ shopping experience. I asked them if they truly feel that they had achieved this goal by refusing to allow law-abiding citizens in the mall that had properly and legally obtained a permit from the state of Ohio to carry a concealed handgun. [This is such great stuff.] I went on to say that I don’t feel they did. [Slowly starting to voice your opinion.] They made a reference to the recent shooting in a Utah mall and that they did not want a similar action in their mall. I fully agreed with them that I also never want to hear or see such a thing in any mall. [Well done, this puts both parties on the same side of the issue.] I then countered with the facts.

Notice how he doesn't dive in and start attacking with facts. He didn't get all worked up about it on the forums on the night before; he thought about his plan himself. As he continues to discuss, he makes sure to ask management for their perspective and their opinion. Afterwards, he's not afraid to disagree in a constructive manner. Instead of walking away frustrated, he got results! Forum members here ought to study this story if they'd like to influence friends and authorities in the future. I also recommend The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People to learn how to approach these confrontations from a productive perspective.

Bravo!

Tim, you have been here for two years and this is your 99th post.
Please post more often!
Excellent viewpoint!

 

[qlajlu]

Bravo!

Tim, you have been here for two years and this is your 99th post.
Please post more often!
Excellent viewpoint!

I agree with CNYCacher!

In the absence of an e-mail address for the manager of the mall I was able to find a postal address and felt like sending him a letter complimenting him for his decision. Hopefully this letter will not gum up the works, but I think that manager deserves a pat on the back.

I am posting the letter here. If you should see anything needing to be changed please speak up. I will actually give it to the snails it in about three days to allow for review here first.

(Date to be added after review)

Mark J. Bressler, Gen. Manager
℅ Elyria Midway Mall
3343 Midway Mall
Elyria, OH 44035

Dear Mr. Bressler:

SUBJECT: CHANGE OF VIEW

I have never been to your mall. I have never even been in Ohio. However, due to your removal of signs not allowing firearms into the mall, I would be happy to shop at the mall if I ever make it there. You have made a tremendous decision and, contrary to the naysayers, you have added a layer of security for those people that do shop there.

I know that you have heard of the shootings at The Trolley Square in Salt Lake City, UT recently. What manager of any mall in the U.S. hasn’t heard about it? I have shopped at Trolley Square Mall many times. It has a congenial atmosphere that caters to families with many fine dining facilities. We have no way of knowing how many law-abiding licensed concealed firearms permit holders were not carrying a firearm that night when the gunman went on a rampage killing and severely wounding patrons of the mall because of the "No Weapons Allowed" signs at the entrances to Trolley Square Mall. Had I been there that night I would have left my firearm locked securely in my vehicle in accordance to their signs. Luckily, the off-duty officer that put an early stop to the killing was not bound by the signs being a sworn officer, but at that time he was a mere civilian. We already know that the signs meant absolutely nothing to the gunman. Signs cannot stop someone with ill intent on their mind. No weapons allowed makes it safe for the bad guy to do his business, at least until the police arrive.

A sworn officer in Utah is allowed to carry his weapon anywhere, even off duty, with a few enumerated exceptions such as Federal Courthouses and boarding an aircraft as a passenger. That particular night this particular officer was off duty, in plain clothes, out of his legal jurisdiction, and having dinner with his wife when the shooting began. Technically, he was simply a civilian. Had he not been there, many more people would have been hurt or killed before local police were able to arrive and locate the gunman in the confusion to stop the carnage. In fact, the off-duty officer told the news media later that he almost didn’t carry a firearm that night.

You have now allowed your patrons to be safer in your mall. You may never know how safe unless something occurs prompting a licensed carrier of a concealed firearm to produce his weapon. I pray to God that your mall never experiences such a situation.

The news of you taking down the no guns signs at the Midway Mall has been posted on several Internet gun forums and naturally it has been received with great approval. Contrary to what you may have heard, "us gun nuts" are not deranged cowboys out to have a gun-fight in front of the saloon on Main Street at high noon or to settle our differences by having a shootout with those who displease us at the drop of a hat. We are law-abiding citizens that only want to be able to protect our lives, the lives of our loved ones, and our property by leveling the playing field. We are all pro-Second Amendment aficionados, we pay very close attention to the political atmosphere, and as you now know, we all have passed strict licensing procedures and background checks.

I applaud and compliment you for your decision.

Respectfully yours,