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OK, I understand 6.5 Creedmore is ballistically superior to .308 Win, but....

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by RussellC, Jul 13, 2017.

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  1. Legionnaire
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    Legionnaire Member

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    I'm late to this very informative thread. I agree with others that there is very little difference between the .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor at the distances you are talking. I will also admit to the "coolness" factor of the 6.5 Creedmoor. That said, when I decided to add a 6.5 to my stable, I settled on the .260 Remington. The OP asked a couple of times about forming 6.5 Creedmoor cases from .308 Winchester brass. My understanding is that while it can be done, it takes several steps as the basic geometry is different. The .260 Remington, however, like the .243 Win and the 7mm-08, is a necked-down .308 case. Forming .260 brass from .308 requires exactly that: necking down (and checking for thickness of the neck brass). Virtually no ballistic difference between the .260 and the 6.5 Creedmoor, so the choice between them should be based on other factors. If ease of forming cases from .308 brass is a criterion, the nod goes to the .260 Remington. And I'm finding that with all the jazz about the CM, being a little different has its own "coolness factor."
     
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  2. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Member

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    There's really no reason that anyone has to form Creedmoor brass. I've been shooting it since 2009,and have never had any problems finding new brass. It takes too much trimming,and sizing down in steps to form brass from 308 cases. I guess if you like wasting time,you can do it!
    I do resize 243 Winchester brass for my 260 Remington AR,but that's because it's simple to neck up,and I don't care if I loose it in the field while we're hunting hogs. I fire form Lapua 260 Remington brass for my 260 Ackley Improved bolt action.
     
  3. LoonWulf
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    LoonWulf Contributing Member

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    Ive formed a few 6.5CM from .243 with a single pass in a full length die no expander stem. Cut that and final trim wouldnt be much work.
     
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  4. Legionnaire
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    Legionnaire Member

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    Interesting. I've not needed to form .260 brass, so it's theoretical for me ... even though I have way more match grade Federal .308 brass than I'll shoot any time soon. Really can't go wrong with any of them.

    But to the OP's original question, I'd favor a 6.5 (CM, 6.5x55, .260 Rem) over a .308 for his stated purpose, and that from someone who has, shoots, and likes the .308.
     
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  5. RugerNo

    RugerNo Member

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    A person has to have an understanding of internal ballistics to know that the Creedmore cartridge in a given caliber is superior to the equivalent Winchester, etc. Ninety-eight percent plus loading density is the secret in powder is the answer. Hornady determined that this should apply to the CM and developed the 6CM and proved it superior to the 6.5CM. This is a flatter shooting round. Ruger started chambering their Precision Rifle in 6CM immediately. How seriously do you need accuracy?
     
  6. z7

    z7 Member

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    unless you are going to get a really high end gun and put a whole lot of ammo through it, I don't imagine you will notice the difference. So get what you want.

    at Last month I was shooting at 1000yds with my 308 win (24" barrel). I had more hits than misses on a 24" gong, and out of 15 shots at a 5" plate, I recorded 3 hits with all misses within .5 mils, most were within .2 mils.

    maybe a 6.5 would have helped, I don't know. I do know that on a 10" gong at 600, I record first round, cold shooter, cold bore hits on most outings.

    the newer bullets like the 178ELD, the 185 bergers, 175 RDF (Nosler) are keeping the 308 relevant. It is not as good as a 6.5, but it ain't half bad either.

    with that said, if most of your shooting is close, I would get a .223. Get a rifle you can shoot heavy bullets loaded long and have fun shooting cheaply with free brass and small powder chargers.

    How accurate do you want your rifle? 3/4" groups isn't hard anymore most Tikka or Savage rifles can get that consistently. I have an 16" AR that when fed properly does this.
     
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  7. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    308 would be my choice out to 500 yds. 6.5 CM beyond that. 308 mostly because of ammo costs. Reloaders benefit from the tons of military brass and bullet options.

    I'm not much of a 6.5 fan. I'm not sure it really has a place in the caliber ladder. I think the military will even pass on it as it doesn't offer many advantages over 7.62 at 500 meters. Past that they use mags like 300 and 338.

    But you didn't ask about that.:D
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
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  8. RussellC

    RussellC Member

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    No, I have no interest in those larger calibers. Cost, and increased recoil are a consideration.
     
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  9. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    .308 was my choice for a custom build because I can learn a lot from shooting it long before I burn out a barrel
     
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  10. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I shot F-T/R for a while where all you get is .223 or .308. I had one of each and at my level (Sharpshooter) the .223 was fine to 600 yards.

    I was thinking about firing the .308 up for some "centerfire plinking" and trying the old 200 yard load - a 125 at maybe 2700; and the old old 300 metre load, a 173 at 2200.
     
  11. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    That makes a lot of sense. I just got into benchrest shooting a few years ago and decided that .223 was the way to go for now. I had owned a few rifles before but that was many years ago and they were all used to hunt deer in the west. I learned a few things about magnums in those days. Harsh recoil anticipation isn't conducive to accurate bullet placement. :D A 223 works just fine for benchrest to ranges that most people shoot. Recoil is also a consideration for me so a 6 mm something or other would be my limit these days.
     
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  12. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    I looked at that cartridge just now. Never paid much attention to it. Interesting story behind the development.

    http://www.outdoorlife.com/6mm-creedmoor-next-thing-in-long-range-shooting

    Might be something I would consider buying.
     
  13. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    A bunch of guys in my area are switching to 6mm cartridges for their PRS rifles. A few are going with 6mm Dasher for it's economy, but most seem to be going to the 6mm Creed. One guy I talked to had worked up a magazine length load with 110gr SMKs at 3,100 fps.... Pretty awesome performance with a bullet that has a G1 BC over 0.6. the downside of course would be barrel life, but how much that mattered would be up to the shooter.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
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  14. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    A Kreiger barrel costs about $325 and they charge $295 to thread, chamber, and install. $45 each to bead blast and to trim and crown. So divide $710 by however many accurate shots you get and add that to the cost of components for a per-shot expense.
    Of course if you can DIY or get it done cheaper...
     
  15. FN in MT

    FN in MT Member

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    Everyone's situation and pocket book is different. I have access to a shop and can do a barrel change on a Saturday. So all I'm out is the price of a quality barrel when I wish to play with something new. Plus reamer rental or cost to buy.

    I shot a .308 from a 26", 1 in 12" HART barrel for a few years in LR steel shoots at my Club. Plates out to 1260 yds and occasionally out to 1400+. I did OK, but once you get past 1K....there are FAR better tools in the toolbox than the .308 win.

    The .260 Rem, 6.5 CM, 6.5 x 47 Lapua to name a few. If You want a bit of a barrel burner throw in the 6.5x.284 Win. All of these make hits at 700 yds + , much easier than a .308 with 175's.

    If I was to build a fun gun for out to 500 yds, UNLESS wind was a real factor....I'd go with a fast twist barrel in a .223 Rem. Shoot the heavy bullets and have fun. IF wind is a real issue, go with any of the 6.5's.

    As far as being cost conscious...Accuracy is a lot like horsepower when building an engine.....How much can You afford?
     
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  16. z7

    z7 Member

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    If you are interested in 6mm offerings, read up on the 6mm Competition Match round. A 243 wildcat that can throw 105 bergers at 3,300 fps yet gets around 3,000 shots on a barrel. guys shooting it settle on the low accuracy node because the high node exceeds velocity restrictions for most matches. during fire forming shooters claim .5moa accuracy
     
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  17. FN in MT

    FN in MT Member

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    z7,

    Another good one, the 6.5x47 Lapua necked down to 6mm. I did one on an 8 twist barrel, 24" and with 105's I'm getting 3050 with VERY good accuracy. Mine is simply a toy, not for Tactical matches or anything like that.

    The hot 6's have a lot to offer.
     
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  18. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I saw a wildcatted 6x47 Lap before I ever saw a 6.5.

    Of course what is really needed is a 6.35mm. If somebody would make us high BC .257" bullets.
     
  19. Aka3006

    Aka3006 Member

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    I went with a 308. The reason is because a lot of calibers are based off it. And I'd just have to pick a caliber in the family. And have it re barreled in the future. And I think if the competitive shooters dump the 6.5 CM, it might fade away. If a new caliber comes out.
     
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  20. LoonWulf
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    LoonWulf Contributing Member

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    I dont think so considering the traction its gained as a general purpose cartridge. Off the top of my head I BELIEVE there are more rifles offered in 6.5CM than the .260, and for sure way more than the .260 had at the same point in its existence.
    This is just my opinion, but anything gets displaced it will likely be the .260 (and not for any good reason just because the 6.5 is becoming easier to get), tho again, if either of them dies as a factory round any handloader will be able to make cases with a basic set of dies and some time.
     
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  21. cdb1

    cdb1 Member

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    I agree, I think the 6.5 Creedmoor is here to stay and believe the .260 is on its last legs which is too bad.
     
  22. RussellC

    RussellC Member

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    Well, the exact same thing can be said of 6.5 CM, in terms of rebarreling....
     
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  23. Aka3006

    Aka3006 Member

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    True. But I was thinking I could use the same bolt if going to the 260?
     
  24. horsey300

    horsey300 Member

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    The same bolt can be used on the .22-250, .308, .260, 6.5 cm, 7-08, and 6.5x284 Norma.
     
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  25. Aka3006

    Aka3006 Member

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    Glad I got a 308 then. Just in case the day comes I'd like to switch. Thanks for the info
     
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