OK, I'm annoyed with Smith and Wesson

[copaup]

My name is Adam, and I own a 637...

I'm starting to get annoyed. I bought one of the 637s when they first got marked down. I needed a light and concealable pistol I could carry as a backup to my duty weapon. I picked up my 637 and was well pleased. I heard the naysayers who complained about the quality control problems that SW was having. I listened to the people who complained about the finish, the poor triggers, the cracked barrels and frames. Poppycock, thought I. No doubt these were the same people who were still angry over the deal with the feds. After all, my pistol seemed fine. Until I first noticed the finish peeling. It started small, under the trigger guard. I told myself it was just normal wear and I could live with it. THen it spread. Like a fungus, it started spreading to the sideplates, down the grip frame, everywhere. My 637 looked like it had a bad case of sunburn. I call Smith and get a return shipping number. "Whats the turnaround?" I ask, as I actually carry this gun and (at least in my head) NEED it. 2-3 weeks tops, they tell me.

3 weeks go by and no gun. No call from Smith either. I get curious and shoot them an email. I work nights and phone calls are a little hard when the other party is closed while you are concious. Short version is they havn't started work yet because they havn't recieved payment and there is a shutdown, so it wouldn't ship for 2 weeks anyway. Transcript of the emails below if you are intrested.

So now I'm annoyed both by the problem with the gun, and the (lack of) customer service I have recieved. But now I have vented, and can feel my blood preassure returning to normal.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:01 PM
To: qa
Subject: Quick question re: a warranty repair


'Around the beginning of the month I sent in my 637 for a refinish as the clear coat was peeling off. I am going to be going out of town in the next couple of weeks and would like to know if there is any way you could notify me by email when the gun ships so I can make arrangements for someone to be here to sign for the package. Thanks.

Adam Pickering'

The reply:

'We are on shutdown now, so it will not be shipping for at least two weeks. I do not show payment as of yet anyways, so we do not
begin work until we receive payment'


Note the lack of signature, salutation, or apparent concern. No "Hey, sorry we got a little backed up and we'll get it out as soon as we can." My latest reply below:

'Payment? This would be a warranty repair for a pistol on which the finish was peeling off of its own accord. When I was told to ship it to you I was advised of a turnaround time of aprox 2-3 weeks, and now you tell me that you havn't even looked at it yet? Hopefully it is unintentional, but I also note a certain lack of concern in the tone of your email. This is my back up weapon, which I carry daily. I stake the lives of myself and my partner on the equipment I carry. I have now been without it for 3 weeks and have not recieved any notification of a delay until I contacted you. Bearing in mind that this is a known issue with the finish on this model, and is a very simple and quick repair to make I must admit a certain dissatisfaction with the level of support I have thus far recieved. It is also only polite to include a name when emailing a customer.'

Adam Pickering

Comments? Am I just overreacting due to other frustrations in my life? Anyone have experiences to share that might get me through this with a few hairs left on my skull?

 

[sm]

I'm sorry you had a problem. I would keep in contact , continue the keeping tabs on updates, stautus, and record keeping.

IN general, many are upset with having to beta test products for ANY product from ANY mfg., not just firearms.

Many of us continue to get called names and stereotyped because we fuss and gripe about situations like yours. We suggest the pressure be kept on mfgs to make things right. Including, making things right in the first place in the mfg stage, and then continuing "if need be" in the customer service arena.

There is reason some of us folks like the older products, besides the fact less monies if bought used.

Keep the pressure on, document everything.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Just the typical contemporary corporate way of doing business. You need to understand that, as a customer, you are third in line. First comes the stockholders who are entitled to profits. Next comes management, who are entitled to big salaries, bonuses and company vehicles. Then you (maybe).

30 years ago I bought a NIB S&W M19 that was so badly out of time it would only fire every now and then. I sent it back for warranty repairs which took a long time, as I recall. When I got it back, it was slightly better but still not reliable. I gave up and sold it. I accept it was just an anomaly as most S&W's I've owned were excellent.

 

[PigPen]

All large companies have these problems....S&W is no different. We can all expect to hear both good and bad from large companies. The guy who is high enough up to care (or who gets paid to say that he does), just can't catch every mistake.

Sounds,like you are being taken care of now and according to you they have extenuating circumstances.

I mean really.......I could tell worse stories about other companies.

No I have no vested interest in S&W and I do not work there. It's a little aggrevating but posting your problem to a board seems a little far out to me.

PigPen

 

[Blueduck]

It's a little aggrevating but posting your problem to a board seems a little far out to me.

JMHO but I like reports on different companies customer service from actual buyers. My personal exp with S/W service has ranged from great to horrid, but normally mid ground (I'll still buy from them but don't rave about service either).

Seems to me this kind of stuff (and follow up!) about how companies take care of consumers is a great use of gun boards. No offense just curious as to why you find it "a little far out"

 

[copaup]

"Sounds,like you are being taken care of now and according to you they have extenuating circumstances"

Eh? Just how am I being taken care of now? I had to call them, and basically get told "We haven't done anything, and we don't know when we will." I'm not sure on what level that means I'm being taken care of. Incidentally, I got a bill in the mail just a few minutes ago for a "action enhancement" for $65 from my friends at Smith. Odd, I don't remember ordering an action enhancement, I thought I asked them to fix the peeling finish. A phone call left me on hold for 10 minutes. I'd give them a lot more slack for the extenuating circumstances if they would kindly explain what they are, rather than sitting on my order.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a little aggrevating but posting your problem to a board seems a little far out to me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Silly me, I thought that was what a board was for, sharing expeiriences and what not.


Now before anyone gets the wrong idea about me hating SW, I just got back from my local shop and a NIB 342PD followed me home. Seems since Smith discontinued it my friends at the shop bought a whole truckload of the things and is selling them at 489. I paid a bit less than that. Little bugger is light, and a quick trip to the range revealed that while recoil is, well, stiff, its not brutal. When my 637 gets back it may be in search of a new home.

 

[denfoote]

Gee!!
And I was just about almost ready to possibly purchase one of those new Smiths!!

Not that one man's woes is gunna influence my decision, but you would think that Smith and Wesson of all people, after the scandals, trials, and an "almost" company ending boycott, would be a little more conscious of customer service!! :banghead:

 

[Onmilo]

I had a similar experience with S&W involving a M28 I sent for repair.
It took a month to get the gun back but the wait and the head bashing were worth it.
Frustrating but worth it, the gun is in far better shape now than before it went in.

 

[sgt127]

I have heard so many horror stories on the new finishes that I found an older anodized 642 to keep in reserve if the one I've carried for 10 years dies of old age. I've had very good luck with Smith warranty though. I had a 696 with the worst forcing cone cut I've ever seen. Looked like it was finished off with a dull hacksaw. 10 days from my door and back. They payed shipping, no charge for the repair. Best of luck, I think your complaint is justified, nothing wrong with making it public in my opinion.

 

[Standing Wolf]

IN general, many are upset with having to beta test products for ANY product from ANY mfg., not just firearms.

Apple has been expecting its customers to do Alpha testing for years. Its software used to be worth the occasional hassles.

Smith & Wesson's customer service has been a hit or miss proposition for decades.

 

[Plinkerton]

That's too bad. I don't think you are over reacting at all. If they need to take a while, because they are backed up, so be it. But to be less than courteous to a customer, who is requesting that their faulty finish be fixed?

Completely unacceptable.

I hope if I ever have to deal with them, it's a positive experience.

 

[ACP230]

I'd suggest you keep both J-frames. Then you'll have a back-up to your back-up, if something goes wrong again.

I have a carry permit and usually haul a Smith M649 around.
Behind it I have a Smith M38 and a Charter snub.
The 649 is usually trouble free, but I like having extras.

 

[Tamara]

I predict that the 642 and 637 are going to go away. Again.

They originally sold sluggishly, and were pulled from the market by S&W, because of customer complaints that the anodized matte alloy frame did not match the glass-beaded finish on the cylinder and barrel. A hue and cry went up from cognoscenti that one of the best little CCW pieces on the market was gone. Eventually, S&W returned them to the marketplace, this time with the funky clearcote on the aluminum to give the gun a more uniform appearance. Unfortunately, it appears that some solvents cause the cosmetic coating to flake or peel. After the Invasion of the AirLites, with their funky gray Ti cylinders, you'd think the market would be ready for a funky pinto-pony-looking two tone gun. Why doesn't Smith just leave the clearcote off and let folks who don't want a MicroLite carry piece made out of riboflavin have a choice that's lighter than the all-steel J-magnums, even if the barrel and cylinder don't match the frame?

 

[J Miller]

Well, don't feel too bad. At least they accepted your gun for service. When I called them to have my 25-5 worked on I was told not to bother sending it in.

In case you've not read any of my posts, I will never purchase another new S&W, and probably won't even buy any used ones either. They destroyed any customer relations they had with me when they refused to work on my gun.

Hope yours eventually comes back fixed.

Joe

 

[Elkslayer]

Been reading this thread and have found it interesting.

However, I also read the "S&W Service" thread in this same forum where there is nothing but praise.

I'm confused!?!

 

[SouthpawShootr]

They should have advised you of the impending shutdown when you originally contacted them. The least they could have done was look at it and contacted you if you need to pay anything for the work (as they obviously believe you do - that would be the perfect time to argue warranty issues). It's been a while since I e-mailed S&W, but they were a bit slow (usually took about 2 weeks to reply) and the author's personal e-mail address was there as well as "signature." Looks like things have changed for the worse.

 

[SouthpawShootr]

However, I also read the "S&W Service" thread in this same forum where there is nothing but praise.

Nothing really to be confused about. This is just an instance where somebody didn't quite do their job and something important slipped through the cracks. Hopefully any S&W service people surfing around here will read this for what it is: a kick in the pants.

I've had a number of good experiences with S&W service over the years. Everytime I've sent something back for service, I just bring my gun by to the S&W stocking dealer/service center in my area and they take care of any return authorizations, so I've never directly dealt with them over the phone. One or two week turnarounds were not uncommon.

 

[twoblink]

It would surprise me if people from gun companies don't surf the net often and stumble onto this place..

I think this is what is needed; public documentation of dissatisfaction. If you are unhappy, document it, make them make it right.. YOU are the customer, and so you are the boss.. You deserve to be treated with come decency (which the tone didn't seem to imply in the email) and the burden is on their shoulders now to not lose a loyal customer...

 

[bountyhunter]

Interesting because I used to paint car and I know something about coatings. This finish seems to fall off quickly and universally, no doubt as a result of gun cleaners. I wonder if they are using some kind of clear urethane as a finish to prevent corrosion?

Anyway, whether it's a urethane or a baked on epoxy, when paint falls off it means:

1) It isn't a suitable material for the job (environment it operates in)

2) The surface under it was not properly prepped so it didn't bond.

I suspect you will eventually end up stripping it all off and leaving it that way because the "sunburned" look is so ugly.... and it's going to keep falling off anyway

 

[mattz357]

I'm also watching this closely to see how it turns out. I sent my new 642 in and had nothing but positive interaction with EVERY S&W person that I talked to. I emailed them to express my satisfaction and a short but polite reply was sent promptly.

 

[Brian Williams]

This is why I buy things like a 1950 Heavyduty or my 1983 940etc.

 

[Blueduck]

Don't think it's all of them

Finish flaking deal may have been a bad batch or change in formula, we have a total of four 642/637's with the new coatings running around the office and no problems with any of them.

They should post in big bold letters on the box that Gunscrubber will eat the finish, or better yet make a finish it does not eat.

Imagine they have a lot coming back as gunscrubber seems to be very popular now even selling at the "marts" right beside rem-oil etc. I imagine they will be paying for that little cost saving finish for a long time..

 

[bountyhunter]

They should post in big bold letters on the box that Gunscrubber will eat the finish, or better yet make a finish it does not eat.

That's like making car tires that fall apart if they touch asphalt. BTW: this is not a new problem. Motorcycle gas tanks have to be painted with something that is "fuel proof". I repainted mine and top coated it with clear urethane. Fisrt time I spilled gas on it, the clear coat stripped right off. The lacquer color coat was impervious (thank God).

I was told that a heat cured epoxy type of paint is what they use to resist solvents.

 

[PigPen]

I don't want any misunderstanding. Their is no love lost between myself and S&W. I just think that everybody needs to be a little understanding of their circumstance. They are a large corporation with a hundred years of guns in the field.........many of which need repair.

I do not find 3 - 4 weeks to be excessive. Actually, I find it pretty good service. I could give several examples of products (some of which cost a whole lot more) where the manufacturer will not service them at all after 4 - 5 years. Then there is a charge for the service........many times I fine it excessive.

If S&W will repair the revolver in question, for a reasonable fee, in a reasonable time (5 - 6 weeks.......... perhaps occassionally longer under unusual circumstances) then I say they did their duty. No matter who the customer is or what the name of the horse that he rode in on.!!!!

And I for one would not request or expect special treatment

PigPen

 

[Plinkerton]

It's not special treatment. It's common courtesy.