blarby
Member
I think the rifle may have to wait a bit longer.
Its primary use would be deer.
Its primary use would be deer.
Ok, its starting to smell good.
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Navy Arms is - or rather, was - an importer/distributor, not a brand. They sold many different brands, usually with the manufacturer's logos replaced by their own. Look under the loading lever near where the barrel enters the frame; sometimes they missed that one.
blarby
Member
Uberti
Unfortunately, Gary, that ship has already sailed !
Now I have a somewhat ........ interesting........ question :
I'm one of those folks who, of sound mind, choose to have loaded firearms about the residence.
I'm trying to determine the way to do so on this'n without it being problematic. On top of everything else, I've hit an interesting snag : Corrosive.
I was taught to clear the nipples before loading by firing a cap through each one, and then loading and firing as normal. Everyone also says that you have to clean these things immediately, or they'll basically dissolve. My CCI primers state they are non-corrosive... I assume I can believe that to be true ? It matters in that I'd be clearing the nipples as indicated, charging the weapon, and placing it on a stand. For the most part at my bedside, next to the other 44. I don't want this nice little piece to corrode simply sitting in an "unfired" state, but at the ready.
Thoughts ?
Unfortunately, Gary, that ship has already sailed !
Now I have a somewhat ........ interesting........ question :
I'm one of those folks who, of sound mind, choose to have loaded firearms about the residence.
I'm trying to determine the way to do so on this'n without it being problematic. On top of everything else, I've hit an interesting snag : Corrosive.
I was taught to clear the nipples before loading by firing a cap through each one, and then loading and firing as normal. Everyone also says that you have to clean these things immediately, or they'll basically dissolve. My CCI primers state they are non-corrosive... I assume I can believe that to be true ? It matters in that I'd be clearing the nipples as indicated, charging the weapon, and placing it on a stand. For the most part at my bedside, next to the other 44. I don't want this nice little piece to corrode simply sitting in an "unfired" state, but at the ready.
Thoughts ?
That is a matter of opinion... Or at least, not an absolute.
I load mine up after cleaning, and I do not pop caps. I run my parts through the dishwasher's heat cycle to dry and then assemble and lightly oil. Afterwards I swab with an alcohol patch then run Q tips through the chambers, and load. I've yet to have a misfire or hangfire. But I also don't oil the nipples, and very lightly oil the chambers.
If deer or other medium game is all you'd likely hunt I'd suggest a .50 cal, and a Lyman. Depending on terrain and style you can get a Deerstalker with a 24" barrel 1:48" twist and either deep grooves better for PRB or shallow for sabots. There's the 28" Trade Rifle which is 1:48" twist and deep grooves, or their Great Plains which gives you the choice of a slow twist with deep grooves or fast twist with shallow grooves with a 32" barrel.
I chose the Deerstalker as I figure a handy rifle you can stalk with made more sense to me to begin with. I'll be using PRB unless given a chance for elk or something. But I do intend on buying another barrel and adding a Malcolm scope for hunting fields and such.
If deer or other medium game is all you'd likely hunt I'd suggest a .50 cal, and a Lyman. Depending on terrain and style you can get a Deerstalker with a 24" barrel 1:48" twist and either deep grooves better for PRB or shallow for sabots. There's the 28" Trade Rifle which is 1:48" twist and deep grooves, or their Great Plains which gives you the choice of a slow twist with deep grooves or fast twist with shallow grooves with a 32" barrel.
I chose the Deerstalker as I figure a handy rifle you can stalk with made more sense to me to begin with. I'll be using PRB unless given a chance for elk or something. But I do intend on buying another barrel and adding a Malcolm scope for hunting fields and such.
blarby
Member
I'm also very curious as to what folks are using in terms of conicals ?
And what charges of FFFg everyone is using on this model ? The retailer advised 20 grains to start, progressing up to 25+ if I so chose, using a 138(ish) .451 RB
Thoughts ?
When it does come time for a rifle, I doubt sabots will be in the picture. I can't cast Sabots...... The business part, sure. But not the plastic.
This is going to be one of those fun segways that ends with me churning out small amounts of home made and corned BP, and somehow making caps....
And what charges of FFFg everyone is using on this model ? The retailer advised 20 grains to start, progressing up to 25+ if I so chose, using a 138(ish) .451 RB
Thoughts ?
When it does come time for a rifle, I doubt sabots will be in the picture. I can't cast Sabots...... The business part, sure. But not the plastic.
This is going to be one of those fun segways that ends with me churning out small amounts of home made and corned BP, and somehow making caps....
There are not a lot of choices for conicals unless you have a custom mold made.Pretty much there is the Lee mold, they come in two sizes i think, a .450-200 and a .457-225, the later is for the ROA. The other is the kaido bullets,i think they come in 240 and 255 if i remeber right and he says they will fit all cap and ball guns.Have read that they are not soft lead but he may cast you up some that are pure lead but not sure.He might sell the molds too.It seems that most people dont get as good accuracy from conicals as they do with round balls, prolly due to the slow twist in most of the repros. They are still fun to mess with though and you may have good luck with them. If you had a custom mold made then you could more likely get them to work better.Something with a wide flat point to keep the length short so they would stabilize better and still be able to be seated with the cylinder in the gun and the flat point would aid in killing power.They would need to have a rebated base so they start straight in the chambers. If i were going to leave one loaded and ready to go i would not use a lubed wad under the bullet, put lub over the ball and i would use 777 powder as it wont corrode sitting loaded like some of the other powders.
I have to admit the idea of keeping loaded guns around without being 'problematic' is a bit, well, interesting.
However, on to the question of corrosion. Yes, today's caps qualify as non-corrosive, at least when compared to earlier designs that used mercury fulminate. Much of the concern about corrosion caused by cap combustion byproducts comes from that era and is not fully justified today.
But, and it's a big but, the contemporary cap combustion byproducts aren't completely corrosion free, so it's still good practice to clean thoroughly. Clearly, some compromise between clearing the flash channel and keeping corrosion at bay is necessary.
For me, the solution is simple: if I'm going to rely on a gun to protect my life and property, I'm going to use it frequently to reach and maintain proficiency. This both keeps me proficient and assures the gun is in top operating condition by performing regular maintenance. This means that the period of time the cap combustion byproducts have to cause corrosion is minimal; yes, there is a tiny bit of corrosion, but it gets cleaned away thoroughly and frequently.
There are those people who feel they don't need practice with their self defense gun to maintain proficiency, and they don't need to maintain that gun to assure it's in top operating condition. How they deal with the compromise between a clear flash channel and preventing any corrosion I'm not sure.
However, on to the question of corrosion. Yes, today's caps qualify as non-corrosive, at least when compared to earlier designs that used mercury fulminate. Much of the concern about corrosion caused by cap combustion byproducts comes from that era and is not fully justified today.
But, and it's a big but, the contemporary cap combustion byproducts aren't completely corrosion free, so it's still good practice to clean thoroughly. Clearly, some compromise between clearing the flash channel and keeping corrosion at bay is necessary.
For me, the solution is simple: if I'm going to rely on a gun to protect my life and property, I'm going to use it frequently to reach and maintain proficiency. This both keeps me proficient and assures the gun is in top operating condition by performing regular maintenance. This means that the period of time the cap combustion byproducts have to cause corrosion is minimal; yes, there is a tiny bit of corrosion, but it gets cleaned away thoroughly and frequently.
There are those people who feel they don't need practice with their self defense gun to maintain proficiency, and they don't need to maintain that gun to assure it's in top operating condition. How they deal with the compromise between a clear flash channel and preventing any corrosion I'm not sure.
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blarby
Member
Thats a good answer.
Verify this for yourself with plenty of testing (you were wanting to shoot often to practice, right???), but I would recommend that you clean and oil normally, and when you are done, wipe away the excess oil from the cylinders, and do the same to the nipples with a pipe cleaner. You should find that clearing the nipple with a cap is unnecessary in this situation. (Generally speaking, I only use caps to clear nipples if I haven't cleared them manually.)
blarby
Member
Good to know.
Proceeding in baby steps...
Well, I went ahead and finally cast some RB's today. Can't just sit around with a gun and no ammo..... grates against my grain.
Nifty segway : the lee .451 RB mould I got is the first one I have that ever needed smoking to work right. Whoulda thought.
It seems like the 20g charge, using a storebought .100 thickness lubed wad, and this ball mentioned above, leaves quite a bit of room in the cylinder.
Thoughts on that'n ?
I'm not unfamiliar with bullet travel / forcing cone jump dynamics, and this makes me wonder.
Proceeding in baby steps...
Well, I went ahead and finally cast some RB's today. Can't just sit around with a gun and no ammo..... grates against my grain.
Nifty segway : the lee .451 RB mould I got is the first one I have that ever needed smoking to work right. Whoulda thought.
It seems like the 20g charge, using a storebought .100 thickness lubed wad, and this ball mentioned above, leaves quite a bit of room in the cylinder.
Thoughts on that'n ?
I'm not unfamiliar with bullet travel / forcing cone jump dynamics, and this makes me wonder.
ontarget
Member
I only do the snap a cap to clear the nipple thing on my percussion rifles. never found it necessary on my revolvers.
I believe the Remington will handle 45 grns and a ball.
What many often do is add dry cereal (Cream Of Wheat or other) to fill in the space with the idea that less jump to the forcing cone helps with accuracy.
My minimum load so far has been 25 grns, 1/8" hard dry wad, and ball in my Ruger. A bit different, but not much. I still have plenty of room. But I don't notice much difference (group wise) from a stout load, but I'm no pistolero either
What many often do is add dry cereal (Cream Of Wheat or other) to fill in the space with the idea that less jump to the forcing cone helps with accuracy.
My minimum load so far has been 25 grns, 1/8" hard dry wad, and ball in my Ruger. A bit different, but not much. I still have plenty of room. But I don't notice much difference (group wise) from a stout load, but I'm no pistolero either
One thing to watch for with light loads is make sure the rammer is able to seat the ball against the powder.If its not against the powder charge it wont be a light charge anymore and can blow your gun up.I am not sure if 20 grs with no wad or no filler will compress the powder in all guns.
blarby
Member
Well, first firings today !
Hard to tell any real difference of 20 and 25 gr at the cans and clays I was shootin at.
They both worked.
Gonna try some paper and a rest next go-round, and see if I see a difference.
What would the max load be... 30 ?
Hard to tell any real difference of 20 and 25 gr at the cans and clays I was shootin at.
They both worked.
Gonna try some paper and a rest next go-round, and see if I see a difference.
What would the max load be... 30 ?
I'm interested in what type of hunting you'd likely be doing. Stalking or hunting through thick brush where you're not likely to get a shot past 75 yds, or lots of open space? From a fixed position or walking?
Do you want a traditional rifle or a modern one? Does a combination of the two work for you? I chose a rifle with fiber optic sights as I've shot a hog at dusk, and had a hard time looking down from a tree blind and aligning all three. It also has a recoil pad as I thought these things kicked more, though I've yet to try a heavy conical.
And are whitetails all you'd likely hunt, or do you have hogs or other game animals?
You could use as little as a .40 cal for medium game, but if you have the potential for large hogs or mule deer (we have axis here) then maybe a .50 would be better. I went with a .50 mostly because it's the easiest to find things for. If the game can get bigger than I'd be more inclined to use a .54 or larger.
Do you want a traditional rifle or a modern one? Does a combination of the two work for you? I chose a rifle with fiber optic sights as I've shot a hog at dusk, and had a hard time looking down from a tree blind and aligning all three. It also has a recoil pad as I thought these things kicked more, though I've yet to try a heavy conical.
And are whitetails all you'd likely hunt, or do you have hogs or other game animals?
You could use as little as a .40 cal for medium game, but if you have the potential for large hogs or mule deer (we have axis here) then maybe a .50 would be better. I went with a .50 mostly because it's the easiest to find things for. If the game can get bigger than I'd be more inclined to use a .54 or larger.
blarby
Member
blarby
Member
So far, yes.
blarby
Member
Looks like as close to 21 grs as I can get is my sweet spot.
Took it out with an old pistolero and shooting buddy....... After getting 3 in the same hole, he stated he might be interested in that particular gun if I ever wanted to be rid of it.
I don't.
It is rapidly becoming one of my favorite, and most accurate, arms.
Took it out with an old pistolero and shooting buddy....... After getting 3 in the same hole, he stated he might be interested in that particular gun if I ever wanted to be rid of it.
I don't.
It is rapidly becoming one of my favorite, and most accurate, arms.
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