OK, what is the purpose of a pistol grip

[JohnKSa]

From what I've seen, the latest crop of tactical/sniper rifles has its fair share of thumbhole/Encore style stocks which are functional equivalents of the pistol grip.

Here's another interesting question.

Once pistols had stocks that were much straighter than they are now. Look at really old flintlock--some of those pistol stocks were straighter than a typical hunting rifle stock is these days. Why did they change to the more abrupt angle?

 

[Nightcrawler]

Why did they change to the more abrupt angle

I'm guessing for a reduced overall length.

I'm not saying a pistol grip doesn't have it's advantages. However, if you want me to believe that a slight difference in the angle of ones hand has a drastic impact on rifle accuracy, you're going to have to show some proof, other than the fact that it's all the rage now to put pistol grips on everything. *shrug*

(Note that a lot of newer sniper rifles are designed with foldings stocks, for more convenient transport. An adjustable, folding stock almost has to be of a pistol-grip type.)

 

[JohnKSa]

Ok, let's get REAL simple.

Put a pencil in your fist.

Is the pencil more or less lined up with your arm (as it would be with a straight stock) or is it more or less at right angles to your arm (as it would be with a pistol grip?)

Pistols have a grip that is sharply angled to the barrel to make it easier to point the gun. Pointing a pistol with a straight stock requires angling your wrist down at an uncomfortable angle.

Rifles equipped with pistol grips allow the shooter's wrist to be in a much more comfortable/natural position. Also, this allows the trigger finger to operate directly towards the palm of the hand which is a much more natural motion.

Ok, about folding stocks. I know of NO match style rifles with folding stocks and yet they all have stocks that place the hand in a pistol grip position. Offhand (NPI), I can only think of one sniper/tactical style rifle with a folding stock, yet there are many that have stocks that place the hand in a pistol grip position.

 

[Nightcrawler]

John, do you find non-pistol gripped rifles uncomfortable or difficult to use? Do you find them difficult to point?

I don't. I've owned and shot both. Six in one, half dozen in the other for me.

Lot at all those trap shotguns that point so natrually for people. You don't see a lot of pistol grips on those.

A lot of the Accuracy International rifles have stocks that fold, if I recall correctly. For storage only, of course, a stockless scoped rifle is probably the epitome of useless.

I still say the pistol grip challenge is in order. Two shooters, same skill, identical weapons, one iwth grip, one without. Heck, we can have it so we have two shotgun shooters as well, same shotgun, one with grip, one without.

That'd be the only way to prove anything here.

I'd be very suprised if there was any appreciable difference in their performance.

I'm not talking about the older-style, straight-wrist stocks, either, though I don't find those uncomfortable in any case. Most non-pistol-grip stocks have a half-grip of sorts. You seem to be of the opinion that anything without a pistol grip requires the shooter to contort his hand in unnatural angles or something.

 

[JohnKSa]

Well, not necessarily uncomfortable positions.

However, if you put your arm down on the table in front of you and relax it, you will see what the natural position is--and you will see that a pistol grip style stock fits better into that natural position.

I've got a couple of Swedish mausers with true straight stocks. Then I've got a few "conventional" style stocks. Then I've got a few stocks like you find on a match rifles or the Thompson break open single shot rifles or thumbhole stocks which aren't really pistol grip stocks but use the same hand position. Then I've got a few rifles with true pistol grips.

What I have noticed is that the straighter the stock, the quicker the gun seems to shoulder. That's why you don't see many pistol grips on shotguns.

I've also noticed that hand position is more consistent on a stock that places your hand in a "pistol grip position." Theoretically, that should make an accuracy difference--particularly in a long shooting session. I also find that the trigger pull is in a more natural direction which means it's more repeatable.

Current rifle theory says that you should be as relaxed as possible for best accuracy. The more muscle tension you need to hold the rifle in position, the more fatigue and involuntary motion will affect the shot.

It just makes sense to try to put the trigger hand into the most natural position possible.