Okay - Here it is - POLL - Open Carry, Yes or No - and Why.

[Ironbarr]

There have been very recently some positive and negative responses to the Virginia right to open carry. Of course, open carry has been around about forever in Virginia, but mostly what's triggered this recent media frenzy (and varying responses here) is that as of July 1, 2004 local bans/restrictions/impediments existing since the '80's are now preempted by state law... no local gov't can regulate firearms - the state law prevails.

Additionally (something we've been working on for several years) concealed carry in restaurants serving alcohol is banned while open carry is legal - and has been.

There are some who believe we are acting rightfully under our law, others believe we are pushing our luck, and there are those who believe we are acting detrimentally to the RKBA cause nationwide.

So here is a poll - let's find out what the THR's 10,000+ membership believes: Open carry (Where legal, of course) - Yes or No? Why?

(This poll is seeking legitimate opinion, pro or con - it's best that we know the prevailing thought.)

-Andy

 

[Felonious Monk]

When the student is ready, the teacher appears.

The students, aka standard-issue typical American Soccer Mom sheeple, are NOT ready to be "taught" by seeing everybody's dad (or mom) walk around in open carry mode.

Keep 'em concealed. It also allows you the element of surprise if somebody heads into a Luby's cafeteria and starts popping off rounds (you hopefully WON'T be the first to be the poppee).

 

[Lone_Gunman]

There is no reason to call undue attention to yourself and intentionally try to upset other people.

 

[Col. Mustard]

I'm not a big fan of "tactical" but...

It's generally a bad idea to show your hole card. If somebody with ill intentions knows you have a firearm, one of three things is going to happen.

1) He will avoid you, and make a victim of someone else. This may make you feel better, but does not solve the problem. And you have someone else's blood (hypothetically, at least) on your hands.

2) He will change his tactics, and probably try to catch you off guard. A baseball bat to your head is likely to be convincing.

3) He tries anyway, and one of you ends up dead. I'm thinking that I'd rather not go there, if I can help it.

 

[joeoim]

We've always had it

Colorado has always had open carry and I can't remember any problems with it.

Every once in a while you will see some loser packin around town.

Every fall will see hunters in town packing pistols.

I can't think of any problems that it's caused.

Joe

 

[mrapathy2000]

illegal in Iowa unless I am on my own property or legally hunting.

would if I could without visiting the inside of a black n white and fancy facilities of the local police station.

 

[Ellery Holt]

I voted 'At Times' because it is legal in Oregon, excepting the cities of Beaverton and Portland. I have not verified but have heard that people with concealed carry permits can carry openly in those two cities. Moot point for me. People who live in the large cities (of any state) are likely to be easily frightened by firearms.

I also voted 'VA are correct to carry open' because there is not an option for, 'I have no right to judge which legal activities other folks may engage in. That's an attitude I am glad not to carry.

 

[FedDC]

In the woods or at the range, yes...in public, no. I get enough strange looks on the job where I occasionally have open carried and it is unnerving to say the least when a 5 year old says " Daddy, Daddy, that man has a gun" and the entire room turns to look at you... Bad idea tacticaly and a bad Idea from the standpoint of furthering our gun rights.

 

[1911Tuner]

Yes or No

No...Not amongst civilized folk. It scares'em. It draws attention and I try to remain unobtrusive in public. It makes one look like a "Mall Ninja"
in addition to looking silly...and at my age, I can't afford to look silly.

Even in the game fields, my pistol stays out of sight. At the range, yes. It's expected. It's accepted without question.

If also makes you a target. If a pair of gang-bangers or other various insundry scum types decide to pull a "Juice" mission in a public place,
guess who they'll shoot first.

Life is simple when nobody knows my little secrets. I have many, many secrets.

Cheers!

Tuner

 

[Hypnogator]

"...Just plain dumb and stupid."

Assuming that we're not talking about while out hunting or in the woods...

Tactically disadvantageous -- If the goblins are planning an attack, they'll take you out before you have a chance to react.

Subjects you to legal harrassment, even though it's wrong.

Makes you look like a nutball. Why not carry a "Repent! The End Is Near!" sign, and complete the outfit?

Panics the herd. The MMMs, VPCers, and other "cognosenti" will become increasingly frightened and support legislation to ban all carry. Out of sight, out of mind, IMHO.

 

[ksnecktieman]

I did not vote, because none of the answers are close to my thoughts. As long as the public thinks that "guns are bad" our rights are in danger. When the public repeatedly sees guns worn openly without harm from them the attitude of society will change. The only time the "sheeple", or "blissninnies" hear or see a gun, it is on the news connected to something bad.

We can hide our guns, and be ashamed of being part of the gun culture, and we will lose the right to own them.
We can speak of them, and wear them, and be proud of them, and our right to carry them, and maybe some day we can wear one in public and no one will bother to comment on the fact.

Some times we are our own worst enemy, with our secrecy and our shame of ownership, and the fact that we carry.

On the issue of making yourself first target in a shooting, I agree,,,,IF a shooting takes place you will be biggest threat and first target. But I ask, how may shootings will never happen because the presence of the gun stopped it before it happened?

My vote goes to "Open carry if it is legal, the public needs to know that the presence of a gun does not mean a shooting is emminent."

 

[Molon Labe]

Go ahead and open carry all you want. It matters not what other people think. It matters not what the government thinks. You have a natural right to open carry, and that's that.

Go ahead and conceal carry all you want. It matters not what other people think. It matters not what the government thinks. You have a natural right to conceal carry, and that's that.

 

[El Tejon]

Situational dependent. Prefer to cover up, but at times (filling up at gas station) I'll have them visible.

Where I am, it's legal, no one cares, and the po-po don't hassle me, but still not a good idear. However, if I lived in Virginia now, I would make it a point to open carry. Mmmm, vanilla latte.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I voted "At times" because that's what I would do. I don't dispute the tactical argument -- tactically, there's an advantage to not letting the BG know you have a gun ... sometimes. On the other hand, there are other times/situations in which a BG might choose a different victim if he sees a potential score and then sees a .45 on the belt. I'd rate that one more or less a draw.

For me, the prevailing argument is that we NEED to desensitize the sheeple to the sight of handguns. Are any of you old enough to remember when condums were not allowed to be displayed in pharmacies, and were sold "under the counter"? It made you feel creepy and somehow "dirty" to walk in and buy them. Now they are openly displayed right next to the antacids and hay fever meds, and nobody blinks if you drop a box at the register next to the bandaids and Hersheys kisses.

We have ALLOWED firearms to be regarded the same way. I am old enough to remember when almost every household had at least one firearm in it. Okay, often it was only a .22 rifle or pistol, but they were there, we didn't have trigger locks, the gun and the ammo were often stored together and not locked up -- and for some inexplicable reason, when members of the family disagreed nobody ran for the gun and started popping off members of the family who didn't share their point of view.

We have allowed Hollywood and television to brainwash an entire generation into seeing KILLING someone as a viable dispute resolution strategy. In fact, the FIRST strategey of choice. With that has come the demonizing of the gun as something inherently and intrinsicly evil, rather than as the value-neutral object and tool that it is.

The more we keep guns hidden, the more they will be perceived as evil. IMHO the ONLY way the sheeple will ever be weaned away from the antis and shown that guns are not intrinsically evil is for more normal people (if there are any) to wear guns openly as often as possible. After all, sheeple don't get upset if they see a police officer wearing a gun. I was in a bank yesterday and a security company delivered a shipment of money. Nobody was surprised to see the guard wearing a gun. So why should it be "alarming" if I, who was there with my wife to open a new checking account, chose to wear a gun openly?

Desensitizing is clinically proven to be effective, both medically and psychologocally. I respectfully suggest that those of you who think we will eventually convince sheeple that guns are safe by keeping them hidden are 180 degrees off course.

 

[The Rock]

I have carried here in Virginia open and concealed. I have only had one incident with open carry, in which I was queried by a gentleman outside the bank on what Department I was with. (Course, I'm not with anybody but myself.. )

If people don't like it, fine. I don't care. I don't enforce my thoughts and emotions on others, and I do appreciate reprocity in this matter. Those who feel different should either deal with it or if he or she is overcome with enforcing there views on me, prudently stay out of rifle range.

I've over being touchy and feely and compromising - look at where it has gotten us! No bayonet lugs, short barrels, crippled magazines..

Really, to me, open carry says that I am to be left alone. That is all I want. Leave me the hell alone.

TR

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Every time one of these threads comes up. Somebody tells us that open carry will make you the first target.

Cite.

Cite, somebody, please cite.
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the sound of crickets.

 

[geekWithA.45]

My take on open carriage of arms:

-The Tactical argument:

The tactical argument basically states that the open carrier makes himself a target. There's a certain amount of validity to this, but it could be argued either way, IMO. I acknowledge this issue, and lay it aside.

-The Political Argument:

To whit, we fear the results of a backlash of a fearful voter base activated by the overt presence of armed citizens. IMO, this is a fear based argument centered not in strength, but in weakness. GRANTED, we certainly should not go out of our way to PROVOKE the sheeple, and good judgement needs to be excercised, given the circumstances. It has been a VERY long time since the carriage of arms was a common sight. There is a lot of validity to the "desensitisation" argument, and this is an agenda that should be pursued. The thing to bear in mind is that desensitisation is an incremental technique: you do not "cure" someone of their fear of snakes by tossing them into a snake pit. First, you show them a picture of a snake, in a non threatening context.

Incidentally, "desensitisation" is a technique that has been wielded against US, with great effect. The AWB has achieved it's primary goal: to desensitize the public to the notion that the government may legitimately legislate the issue.

The other thing we need to consider is the cost of closeting ourselves. To a certain extent, we collude and contribute the problem, and as a LONG term strategy, it is a losing one.


My Bottom Line:

As a philosophical matter, open carry is a valid and legitimate expression of the right of arms.

As a practical matter, good judgement needs to be excercised. The scales have not yet fully tipped in our favor, and the times are perilous. In other words, we should be incrementally and relentlessly extending the boundaries from our havens, where guns are considered ordinary and natural, as opposed to metaphorically parachuting into Blissninny HQ festooned with weaponry, and bearing the glad tidings of the Joy of Being Armed, a message guaranteed to be ill recieved.

 

[sendec]

At times,

like at the range or in the woods,,,

I would no more open carry everywhere I went than I would wear a saxophone to the grocery or my tool belt to church. There just is'nt a good reason,

Shame has nothing to do with it. I used to make model airplanes as a hobby. I would'nt carry one around with me all the time to desensitize people to model airplane glue's legitimate use.

I carry a gun professionally. A doctor carries a stethoscope, a carpenter a hammer, but if they wander the mall "off duty" with a scalpel or a crowbar hanging from their belts people are gonna wonder......... When I am geared up in full ninja regalia I tuck or tape a trauma dressing to the front of my thigh, under a holster strap or with tape, that way I can get to it fast and it's right near my femoral arteries. I do not do the same thing when I am with the brood at the movies, I have a snotrag in my back pocket that'll fulfill the same function without making people wonder why I have a Kotex stuck to my leg. It all depends on where you're at.

This issue seems like Continental kits on cars - why we ever felt that showing off a piece of emergency equipment like a spare tire was a good idea beats me. I hope some day we will be secure enough to not have to feel the need to stick our hobby toys or emergency equipment in other people's faces.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

My preference is for concealed carry. In addition to the assorted reasons already mentioned, it gives you the option of using or not using your handgun should you ever find yourself in a dangerous situation. If you are doing open carry, the choice tends to be with the BG and whether or not he notices your handgun and forces a confrontation.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Crickets.
Crickets..
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The sound of crickets.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Ditto what almost everybody else said. I really don't see any point or advantage of open carry. There are serious disadvantages, however.

 

[Ironbarr]

ksnecktieman...

You, sir, say some very choice words.

Thank you.

-Andy

 

[txgho1911]

I will because I can.
I may need to carry some documented proof of lagality with me as my state laws in Indiana are mute with respect to open cary. The permit to carry in IN does not say concealed on it anywhere. With said permit the individual is allowed to carry on their person or in their vehicle any handgun lawfully possesed by licensee.
There are many more people in IN who do not know it is legal than those who think or assume it is not.
I would carry open to educate the grocery store rentacop or store manager or employee.
A central Indiana radio host Greg Garrison had a guest on last week who had a book on current Indiana state law. I do not have a link so if someone else knows it please chime in. This guest made it very clear that open carry with a permit was illegal as it would be a disturbing the peace charge by many local LEO.
I am not finnished open carry

 

[P95Carry]

I have to inhabit the ''at times'' zone. In PA it is not illegal - but neither is it expected as might be case in VA or AZ etc. Thus - despite the wish to be able to de-sensitize'' the bliss ninnies, discretion seems to become the better part of valor.

''Tactically'' (sic!) ..... I do prefer CCW publicly ... but in fact carry open much of time anyways - simply cos based outa home .. and even elsewhere when for instance at local flying club ... let the folks get used to it ... and they have no problem.

Otherwise ------ hunting season - not really too concerned there about open. I think maybe I am too old to make the big statements some can and do but inwardly am always somewhat incensed that part of my discretion is just because of the people who might freak out - simply because it has become so unusual to see open carry any more.

By choice alone ... CCW .... but as far as excercizing of a considered right .. then open any and every time I might choose. That's the point ... choice, freedom thereof.

 

[lostone1413]

I open carry sometimes here in Arizona. The trouble here is even if you have a CCW it is Illegal to carry in a restaurant if it serves alcohol. That would be 99% of the restaurants. So most of the time I carry conceled then if I want to go in a restaurant I just go in. I carry in a smartcarry so even being illegal it would be hard to tell I have a gun. We had a bill to change the law it made it through the house but the liberal Democrats in the senate most of them from the Phoenix voted it down.You might see that law changed now with the LEOs and 218 It would suck a retired LEO being able to carry in parts of AZ were I can't or should I say shouldn't