Okay, I will confess a horrible sin in the hopes ...

[Ohm]

The proper way to do it if you must, is to use your off-hand thumb between the hammer and the rear of the slide so there is no chance of the hammer hitting the firing pin. Push a bit down with your thumb until you just feel the hammer move so it can't get a running start to pinch you. Then pull the trigger and slowly move your thumb out from between the hammer and slide, up towards the rear sight. The hammer will ease down with nothing to slip as your thumb comes up and out.

Why do it at all? Why have a gun in a state between "loaded and ready" and "unloaded, cleared"?
Seems the worst of all worlds, a loaded gun which is not ready to fire when you need it to. And you have to pull the trigger on a loaded gun and hope you don't have a "problem" with the gymnastics to get it into this "twilight zone" condition.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I had a similar experience when I was working in Orlando. Someone had broken into our office complex and I used to carry my 1911 with the hammer down on a live round. I cocked it and engaged the safety. When the building was cleared I lowered the hammer and it discharged. I had already called the pd and some old dude showed up by himself. He sniffed the air and said "smells like gunpowder". I told him what happened and we both had a good laugh.

Lesson learned. You never, ever, never, ever lower the hammer on a live round.

 

[Gamera]

Thanks for sharing! I was showing my brother my 1911 once, after I had safety checked it of course, and then he safety checked it again (so it was definitely empty). Anyways, he lowered the hammer and I told him to NEVER do that ever. There was no danger, but I told him he shouldn't get into the habit of doing it.

 

[dmazur]

but he DID try to charge me for a big hole in the wall that I had NOT put there...

The previous tenant had a problem lowering the hammer on his shotgun...

 

[Confederate]

Oh and my number one rule,,, NO DRY FIRE EVER... Only time i pull the trigger is i want to kill paper.

I can't go that far. I also can't agree that you put a round up the snoot only when you're ready to fire. You simply may not have the time.

Dry firing can really make a difference in whether you hit what you're aiming at or not. A Ruger Security-Six needs dry firing, and a lot of it. Mine has an action like glass because I've spent a lot of time dry firing it under controlled conditions.

Another thing, as you age, and we're all doing that, we have to keep the muscles in our hands and arms built up so that we can readily use a handgun. My mother was shocked recently when she took out her Ruger Security-Six and could not even pull the trigger. I'm going to get her some weights (5 lb.) to walk around and heft.

And me, I was astounded when I couldn't put the tenth round of 9mm into a Glock pistol I was using at the range (belonged to someone else). I can easily load 15 rounds into my S&W 659 all day long, but that datgum Glock is a weapon I urge everyone to avoid. Takes too long to jack a round into the chamber if carried empty, and is too easy to set off if it is cocked. It really needs a 1911 styled safety.

 

[Mikeybudo]

Several years ago, after finishing a stage, a friend of mine who is a very experienced shooter, went to the side of the range to clean his weapon. There was a ND. He was automatically disqualified from the shoot, but he said he couldn't shoot again that day even if he was allowed, he was so shocked. It can happen. Thanks for sharing.

 

[dmazur]

I'm going to get her some weights (5 lb.) to walk around and heft.

I understand there are rubber balls with different resistance to compression that are great for this. Someone told me once that there was more to grip strength than holding something, though holding a 5 lb weight is definitely exercise.

Here's a link -

Hand Grip Exerciser

 

[wrs840]

Thank you for posting this PcolaDawg. It's a sobering discussion you started, and I've found it to be one of the most thought-provoking threads I've ever read at THR. Setting your pride aside and allowing others to learn from your mistake is a noble gesture, and you have my admiration for that.

I "slipped" while decocking my BHP and dropped the hammer pretty hard on a loaded chamber in my house once years ago... whew... it did not fire. Since I can't mentally bring myself to carry cocked and locked, I don't carry that BHP as a ready personal-defense weapon at all, it's a range-gun and safe queen now. I kinda migrated into being a revolver-guy, partly because of the experience. I recently bought a Police trade-in 6904, because the decocker safety makes me feel better about condition two.

I'm no expert, but learning every day. You've helped. Thanks.

Regards,
Les

 

[sophijo]

accidental discharge

Thanks for the sobering story. An honorable and admirable thing to tells us about it; a helpful reminder. Thankful no one was hurt!

 

[HammerheadSSN663]

That's why I went out yesterday and bought two Sig 45 and a 9mm DA/SAs. I love my Colt SA but never felt safe with one in the chamber.

 

[Wesson Smith]

I'll just say this - in almost 30 years of handling and shooting firearms,
I also had one ND. It wasn't a 1911 - it was a 9MM. And it scared the
living daylights out of me, just as it did the OP. Fortunately, I was living
alone at the time, and I too had the gun pointed in a safe direction
in my basement. Aside from the unbelievably sobering lesson it taught
me, the incident created some skepticism for me with regards to the
ongoing debate about the 9MM round's effectiveness. That Golden Saber
round went clean through the lower portion of a wall, leaving an almost
half-inch exit hole, and penetrated a beer refrigerator on the other side
of that wall, with similar sized entrance and exit holes in the fridge's side
wall. I was almost as shocked at the damage the bullet caused as I
was at my utter stupidity. Ever since that day, I follow the procedure
suggested here by others. Each and every time I pick up a handgun that
I am not currently carrying or in the process of shooting, I drop the mag
and rack the slide to clear. It has just become an ingrained habit.

 

[ScareyH22A]

Oh the horror! I hope there was only cheap domestic beer in the fridge!

 

[C-grunt]

I had a ND a few years ago when we were living in Alabama. I had just got done cleaning my Glock 23 so I loaded it. For some reason I left my holster on the kitchen counter so I picked up the pistol and stood up from the couch. I tripped on the rug and fell onto the coffee table. I caught myself with my left hand but I somehow pulled the trigger with my right (auto reflex??).

I sent a 180 grain HST through the table, into a bin holding several of my wifes Disney DVDs and then into the floor. The scary part was the slide hit me square in the chest while cycling and for a second I thought I shot myself.

It ended up being a pretty darn expensive lesson. It destroyed the table and 4 or 5 of the DVDs. Also, since Disney only releases the movies every ten years, buying a new one outside of that time frame costs about 45-60 bucks a pop.

 

[Davek1977]

It actually took a long couple of seconds for me to realize I had a gun in my hand and had just fired it. Weird feeling.

I know exactly what you mean. My experince did involve a firearm, but no ND. I was inspecting my SKS, and as per usual, pulled the bolt back to lock it open. Then, for reasons unknown to me, decided to pop the reciever cover off to give it an internal glace. However, I didn't bother closing the bolt, and when I popped the takedown lever, the recoil spring uncompressed leaving me holding gun parts in both hands, a spring that had shot across the room, and minor cuts from the rapid decompression, and leaving me COMPLETELY disorintated. It took me a few seconds to realize what happened and that nothing had "gone off". Needless to say, thats a mistake I (so far) haven't repeated. I'm sure an actual ND is MUCH more shocking, but as it was, I was more than a bit freaked out until I realized why my gun "blew up" in my hands when I KNEW it was unloaded

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Glad all are safe and you learned a life lesson use both hands when decocking a 1911.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Interesting; candid and lesson learned from your experience; thank you.

And, it does go to show that I and many many others were right in the last 54943259043509 threads where we tried to convince the rebellious minority that a 1911 is meant to be carried cocked and locked for a reason - several reasons in fact.

But, when/if I ever do have occasion to de-cock manually on a live round, for some reason, I make sure that one of my fingers of my non-decocking hand is actually serving as a physical block to the hammer while lowering, as a redundancy to just simple carefulness in lowering.

 

[benderx4]

First off, thanks for sharing - that took guts. Second, hopefully everyone has seen this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZlcbJwfP4

It can happen anytime to anybody. If I'm not mistaken, the Glock 40 is the same gun that the NY Giants Wide Receiver shot himself with in that night club.

I have two 1911s that I LOVE!! You'll find me at the range blasting holes in paper all day long. But I don't carry either of them. Yes, cocked and locked, is the way to go, but I never felt totally comfortable walking around that way.

I carry a P7 not only for its accuracy and reliability but because that particular gun can go from perfectly safe to perfectly lethal in a split second (and then back again). No safeties to manipulate, no hammers, just a cocker to squeeze. Simple and safe.

Again, not knocking 1911s, I spent a small fortune on mine, they are just not for me and CCW.

 

[Gelgoog]

it can happen to anyone, even the best of us. Jeff cooper is reported to have had a ND while in a friends house.

 

[GLOOB]

Utilize the trigger-activated firing pin safety in the newer models. Or does the 1911 even have one? Well they do have a half-cock, don't they? So:

Grasp the back of the slide with off-hand so that the base of index finger is wedged between slide and hammer.

Pull and IMMEDIATELY RELEASE THE TRIGGER. Hammer has released from sear and is now resting on left hand. You do not need to keep the trigger pulled any longer than necessary. Get your stinking finger out of the trigger guard before lowing the hammer the rest of the way (or down to the half-cock position), and hopefully the trigger safety and your care will take care of the rest.

Basically, the only time your finger is in the trigger guard, your other hand is glued between the slide and hammer.

 

[loneviking]

Glad you weren't hurt! Lowering the hammer on a live round is the most natural thing in the world for somebody used to revolvers. The 1911, with it's hammer and SA sure looks like it should be safetied like a revolver. I was surprised to find that you could rack the slide and eject a round, especially without bumping the hammer and causing it to fall. The 1911 is a good gun, but it does require some getting used to.

 

[SwampWolf]

The proper way to do it if you must, is to use your off-hand thumb between the hammer and the rear of the slide so there is no chance of the hammer hitting the firing pin. Push a bit down with your thumb until you just feel the hammer move so it can't get a running start to pinch you. Then pull the trigger and slowly move your thumb out from between the hammer and slide, up towards the rear sight. The hammer will ease down with nothing to slip as your thumb comes up and out.

Why do it at all? Why have a gun in a state between "loaded and ready" and "unloaded, cleared"?

One situation when wally's "the proper way to do it if you must" advice is apropos is when you plan to carry a typical CZ 75/85 series pistol in traditional double-action mode (as opposed to "cocked and locked" or hammer down on an empty chamber configuration).

 

[snorky18]

First of all, thanks much to the OP for confessing a blunder so others can learn from it. Glad to hear no one was injured.

Forgive my ignorance if these are dumb questions, but I don't know much about 1911s. I'm a younger whippersnapper who has spent a lot more time with revolvers,plastic guns, and DA/SA (sigs) than I have 1911s. The main "safety" I'm accustomed to utilizing isn't mechanical, it's between my ears

Question 1) Under what circumstances would you ever NEED to drop the hammer on a live round? Why wouldn't you simply clear the weapon before dropping the hammer? Why drop the hammer in the first place? (would it really hurt to leave it cocked and safety on with an empty chamber?)

Question 2) What is the difference (or is there one) between clearing a 1911 and say a glock? Both of them you point in a safe direction while keeping you booger hooker off the bang switch, drop the mag, then pull the slide back then press the slide lock release lever into place, right?. At that point the weapon is locked open, and you can visually and physically confirm an empty chamber. Does it matter what position the safety is in?

Or, the short way to ask Q2, what is the proper way to clear a 1911 safely, from start to finish, and please give details (safety on or off at which stages, need to decock for some reason once it's cleared)? (Seems like lots of 1911 owners are really picky about HOW their 1911s are cleared)

Thanks much.

 

[dmazur]

Question 1) Under what circumstances would you ever NEED to drop the hammer on a live round? Why wouldn't you simply clear the weapon before dropping the hammer? Why drop the hammer in the first place? (would it really hurt to leave it cocked and safety on with an empty chamber?)

IMO, there is no reason to drop the hammer on a live round with a 1911. I know lots of 1911 shooters explain how to do this, but I've never understood why. The manual that comes with the newer Colt 1911's (Series 80 / 90) says not to do this, for the reason that your thumb can slip.

Question 2) What is the difference (or is there one) between clearing a 1911 and say a glock? Both of them you point in a safe direction while keeping you booger hooker off the bang switch, drop the mag, then pull the slide back then press the slide lock release lever into place, right?. At that point the weapon is locked open, and you can visually and physically confirm an empty chamber. Does it matter what position the safety is in?

Well, yes. You can't leave the safety on while clearing a 1911 because it blocks slide movement. From a previous post I made in this thread -

Drop the magazine into your L hand and then pocket it. With the muzzle in a safe direction, click the thumb safety off, roll the pistol 90° to the R and reach across with your L hand, being careful to not put your forearm in front of the muzzle. While supporting the pistol with your L hand, shift your R hand grip so you can reach the slide lock with your thumb.

Then, cupping your L palm over the ejection port, slowly rack the slide back and lock it. The chambered round should be in your L palm. Withdraw L hand along same path, avoiding muzzle, and "show clear" to the SO.

<snip>

After that, you can release the slide, drop the hammer by pulling the trigger (with muzzle still pointed in safe direction...), ...

 

[Archery Ham]

My Brother In Law shot a hole in his squad car's roof with a 12 gauge.

He had been somewhere and had to unload the shotgun. He made a decision to load it when he got back to the Sheriff Dept.

While sitting on the front passenger seat with the shotgun, a lawyer comes by and talks to him for a while. (Distraction number 1) Nearby, there is asphalt being removed from the street and placed in a dump truck. (Distraction number 2) The lawyer leaves and my Brother In Law proceeds to load the shotgun.

The procedure is to inspect the chamber, dry fire in a safe direction, load the tube, and place the shotgun on the rack. He then loaded the shotgun and shot a hole in the roof of the squad car, missing the light bar by inches.

No one around him notices a gun had just been fired. A mom and kid walked by on the sidewalk. The asphalt crew is making noises. He even looked to see if he shot a squirrel.

Then, my BIL notices the Sheriff looking out the window at him....shaking his head.

Pictures were taken and paperwork were made. A lesson learned.

 

[Dan Crocker]

I thought cops normally didn't keep a round in the pipe (of their shotgun) when on patrol because of the chance of an inertia fire when going over bumps and stuff during a chase.