Okay, so I was wrong about Kimbers

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George Hill

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I had been very impressed with my Kimber. It has been a very good companion and a shooting workhorse every since I got it. I didn't think the Kimbers would be as rugged as the Springfield guns. I didn't think they would stand up. So I purchased a base Custom II and fitted it with tritium night sights and set about testing it. 2000 rounds later I found the Custom II to be better than it was new. It smoothed up a great deal as it wore in. Accuracy never degraded. Reliability was 100% for those two thousand rounds. I couldn't ask any more from it. And this was their base entry level gun. If the base Kimber was this dang good... How good could their other guns be?
I'm going to say just as good or better. Something interesting happened the other day... interesting and an opportunity. A certain fellow wanted to buy my gun. Not a gun like mine, but my own Custom II. The cash he offered was greater than what I had invested in it, and sufficient enough to facilitate a slight upgrade. So as my Custom II drove off into the sunset, I purchased its replacement.
A Kimber Tactical Custom II.
The TCII has some nice upgrades that I wanted that the CII didn't have. Ambidextrous safety, fine checkering on the rounded front strap, a mag well funnel, with a nice two tone finish that has a black slide on top of an ogrish slide with nice dark wood double diamond grips. It is a gorgeous pistol. But it gets better... it isn't just cosmetic. I went through the TCII's we had in the shop and I selected this one. The trigger pull right out of the box is better than my CII's was after wearing in. The slide to frame fit is free of any play... it is one solid built gun. I've not fired much through it yet. Only 200 rounds... four boxes of Blazer 230 grain FMJ's.
My initial observations have been promising. It fed and fired all rounds with no indications of potential failure. Accuracy was Dead Nuts On. This is one flat out fantastic 1911. I wouldn't change a thing on this gun, I don't need to. This marks two points that have me shaking my head.
First off, this is the first gun I've ever personally owned where I don't want to do anything to it. I don't want to change the grips, I don't want to get a trigger job... nothing. This gun is Good To Go.
The Second point is even more remarkable... we are selling these guns for only $999.99. A cool Grand. I've never owned such an expensive handgun before. While I've never owned one this spendy, I have spent a lot of time reviewing expensive 1911 guns... Rock Rivers, Wilson Combats... I've check out the Nighthawks and STI's... You know. The TCII is that Sweet Spot gun... To get a better 1911 than this one, you have to spend a hell of a lot more money. I really love the Wilsons which are 1800 and up, the Rock River which was what? 1700 bones? Then there is this Kimber which has it going on and puts forth a solid argument that you don't have to spend a ton of cash to get a great gun. I'm not saying this is just as good as those higher end guns, but it is very close to that level of quality for about seven hundred bucks less.

The one thing that the TCII lacks in the minds of some is a light rail. They think that because the gun has the word “tactical” in it, it has to have a rail on it. Rails are not ideal on every gun... weapon mounted lights are not even that great of an idea even for law enforcement. In some cases it works but in others... well for example:

Say you are covering a suspect with your weapon and its mounted light. The area is dark. You see some movement in the shadows to your left. With your weapon mounted light, to put light on the movement you turn the muzzle from the subject to the movement. Now your suspect is no longer covered and you just scared a cat. Or you just pointed your weapon at a child or something else you don't want to be pointing a weapon at. Then you bring the weapon back to the suspect but now the suspect is either gone, going for a weapon, or going for your weapon. Not cool. Weapon lights make you break one of The Four Rules. I still prefer to use a regular light which has just as bright output but better battery life. But that is just me.

So as I said, it's only lacking in the minds of some. I would rather that it didn't have the name “Tactical” but it does and I can live with it knowing that I didn't get it because of the name. Some guys are drawn to “Tactical” as if that makes something better in some magical way.
Maybe I should get “+3” engraved into the slide.
 
George,
I've been telling people about my wonderful experiences with Kimber too. I have the Custom II and Raptor II and they are both excellent guns. I expect to add to the collection this year with an Ultral carry II and Ultra Raptor II. The major difference in Kimber & Springfield is the warranty. Springfield Lifetime, Kimber Not. The TC II is a great gun and YES the trigger is sweet. Congrats.
 
Kimber has a reputation to get over. Perhaps they have been listenig. I hope they have.
 
Hey, does he want to buy my Stainless Gold Match? 1999, 15k+ rounds and it still looks good. Maybe it's just the Spegel ironwood grips. ;)

Glad you're happy with yours too.

John
 
I want a TC II so bad. Maybe one day but right now I'm enjoying my Pro Carry II and Custom II. The Custom II has a 3.5# trigger job that feels pretty sweet.

Enjoy
 
I'm glad you like it, and I also love my kimbers.

I disagree with you on the light rail however.
I came to this preference after clearing MANY buildings...

(Ever try to: Hold a light, hold a pistol, AND turn a doornob?)

As for pointing the weapon at something you do not want to cover... the light beam is not a bullet. there is enough residual glow to see the surroundings.

As far as no longer covering something when you use your light...
A weapons mounted light should NOT be your only 'tac light'

I go so far as having a weapon mounted light on my rifle, my pistol, AND a hand held as a back up. (Which I HAVE had the occasion to use.)

(Now if Milt Sparks will just send me the holster for my Kimber Warrior!
1-2 months more to wait.)

YMMV.
 
Agreed my eclipse custom II is a tackhammer, Alot of people give kimber a bad rep because they have had bad luck. I could not be ay happier with my first 1911 purchase, and will probably get another down the road!
 
I went through the TCII's we had in the shop and I selected this one. The trigger pull right out of the box is better than my CII's was after wearing in. The slide to frame fit is free of any play... it is one solid built gun. I've not fired much through it yet. Only 200 rounds... four boxes of Blazer 230 grain FMJ's.
The quote above pretty much covers my experiences with Kimber pistols.

The buyer really needs to select the best of a group in order to get a good one. Reminds me of buying Colt pistols right after the M1991A1 with the MIM extractor was introduced. The point is that Kimber's quality process seems to be out of control. Some pistols are great out of box, and some are not so great -- or even good.

Kimber Series II pistols seem to do well for the first few hundred rounds, but tend to fall short after that mark for me. I have experienced a firing pin safety that did not allow firing on a Team Match II due to a bad grip safety, a broken thumb safety on a 9x19 Stainless Target II, and a pronounced loosening of the frame/slide fit on both. I also saw a Kimber (not mine) break a barrel bushing during a class. Perhaps just bad luck on my part, but the reasons I no longer own any Kimber pistols. I would love to see a review of the same pistol and its original parts once it has passed the 5K round count or been to a class.

In the 1911 mass market, Kimber does have some advantages as they make a huge number of models with options that users will pay to have and they actually dehorn the guns (for the opposite, see Colt, who makes very few models and all double as razors). The Kimber frame and slides are very good. On the other hand, the small parts used, are for the most part, not very good. The injection gates, ejector pins, and parting lines are visible on many parts, and the grip safety fit to the frame is horrible. The firing pin stops are so loose as to allow extractor clocking. Kimber ruined the reputation of the MIM process for gun parts with what they sold as small parts. MIM can be done well as witnessed by S&W, STI, and Wilson. Here is where Kimber saves cost to meet the price point at which they excel, and where a 1911 buyer can upgrade a Kimber with a few orders from Brownells.

Other manufacturers choose to cut costs on other parts, such as STI's cast frame on the Trojan, while using good small parts. The Trojan is actually a very good competitor to most of Kimber's five-inch guns and, in my limited experience, a much better choice if one is going to shoot lots of rounds as the small parts are excellent. For base gun, the STI Spartan is the current value leader, much like the original Kimber Custom was when first introduced.
 
The "early" Kimbers I shot were great. 10+ years ago, I didn't see how any 1911 manufacturer could compete against Kimber. Of course, Kimber stumbled with their series II, external extractors, etc and other brands picked up the "pace". But, the "new ones" I've fondled at gun shops feel good. They reinvented the modern production 1911 and still do a lot of things right...I guess.

It's still beyond me why there aren't more non-series II models, rear serrations only, etc, etc. Easy options for a manufacturer that has so many.

I "suspect" a lot of their MIM problems started when they began to manufacture their own, instead of buying from known, quality producers. Although I don't blame them for wanting to produce their own.
 
To get a better 1911 than this one, you have to spend a hell of a lot more money. I really love the Wilsons which are 1800 and up, the Rock River which was what? 1700 bones?


I enjoyed your story George as I really like the Kimbers myself and know they have a bad reputation mostly in part from the external extractor fiasco. The mag that comes with them is not the greatest either and should be replaced for carry.

The one big issue I have with Kimbers is the higher end models have the same marginal internal parts as the base guns. I would strongly suggest anyone looking at the $1000-1100 Kimbers pony up an extra 300-400 for the Baer PII. It would be the best 300-400 you will ever spend.
 
"Hold a light, hold a pistol, AND turn a doornob?"
Yes, I have... it is a difficult tactical problem to overcome that rails do make easier... But I still prefer my 1911's to go without them.
Because tactically - you shouldn't be doing that by yourself anyways. If you are clearing a structure - you should work in pairs. There is no way to do it alone correctly.

As for the MIM parts... Feh. They are not as weak as some tend to believe. Kimber is a company that knows how to do MIM very well. Quite a few gunmakers use MIM and you never hear of problems with them. Kimber's second series is just about as problem free as you can get. The MIM issue is a red herring.
Another 300 or 400 bucks is the best you've ever spent? For what? For the comfort of knowing you spend a heck of a lot more for something that might - Might - be slightly less likely to fail? I've seen plenty of Forged parts break too. And MIM parts, if they are going to fail, tend to fail early on and are simple and cheap to replace. No, the best 300 or 400 extra bucks are better spent on Wilson Combat Magazines, a good holster, and lots of ammunition.
 
I have the full size TCII and do like it a lot. It has an alloy frame (as opposed to steel) so some traditionalists don't appreciate it much. I haven't had any major problems with mine - the occasional FTF - but it has the internal extractor, so for the most part it's been solid. Stay away from the split follower mags.
 
I had a Tactical Ultra II, but gave it to my nephew when he got out of the Marines. I missed it so bad I bought the CDP Ultra II I have now. I could not find a Tactical Ultra and I like to fondle...er check out the guns I buy. Well, usually, anyway. :)
 
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