Okay - What's So Bad About Profiling???

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so at first i think maybe you are overreacting a bit.
but this
swaggering around the place like they want to be noticed

hits me two ways- one they are idiots not about to do more than be annoying,
or they wouldnt be calling attention to themsleves-
2) Ha! you shoulda put your hand definitively on the ole' piece and scared the hell out of THEM and maybe theyd not be such jerks in the future, especially AFTER you determine they are not a real threat

that might be asking for it, but usually people going out of their way to get noticed , are retards, and are put in their place easily.
 
Racial profiling= do as I do, act as I do, speak as I do, dress as I do.
If you do not conform you are automatically labled a threat to me, my family and my way of life even though you may have no intention of ever commiting any form of crime and have no desire to inflict pain, suffering, or death on any living thing.
You just look, act and talk "funny",,,,,,,,,


Wrong.
Racial profiling = pulling a car because the driver is black.
Profiling = customs agents stop black women flying from Nigeria to NYC for a one day business trip carrying no luggage, large amounts of cash, and sporting facial scars indicative of small Nigerian tribes whose members are recruited to smuggle herion in their body cavities on one-day business trips to NYC while carrying large amounts of cash.
See the difference?
-D
 
Racial profiling = pulling a car because the driver is black.
Profiling = customs agents stop black women flying from Nigeria to NYC for a one day business trip carrying no luggage, large amounts of cash, and sporting facial scars indicative of small Nigerian tribes whose members are recruited to smuggle herion in their body cavities on one-day business trips to NYC while carrying large amounts of cash.
See the difference?
-D

How often is that difference applied in the real world? If someone fits a criteria that makes them suspect, that's one thing. But all too often, that criteria consists of nothing more than "not the right kind of people for a given neighborhood."
 
And I'm an attorney, and have served as counsel for a federal law enforcement agency. What's your point? That the "real world" doesn't include what I've described? If so, better explain that the to the state and muncipal law enforcement agencies that have publicly acknowledged such activities as I've described.
 
And I'm an attorney, and have served as counsel for a federal law enforcement agency. What's your point? That the "real world" doesn't include what I've described? If so, better explain that the to the state and muncipal law enforcement agencies that have publicly acknowledged such activities as I've described.
I took it by your question ("How often is that difference applied in the real world?") that this was not something you dealt with every day (like I do). Maybe I'm confused here. If you deal with this every day, then you know that profiles, to be effective, must include a number of specific characteristics. If you're just pulling over everybody of a specific race, its racial profiling, its wrong, and you'll get in trouble with the Justice Department (like, say, Villa Rica, Georgia's Police Department ;) ).
Racial profiling by one individual happens, but it can't go on very long. Other police officers won't tolerate it, and sooner or later the feds will get you.
-David
 
My profiling experience is a bit more mundane that many others here. I'm a 22-year-old white guy, 6' tall, average build, maybe 10-20lbs overweight (foot injury, can't exercise, recovering from surgery now). I'm a geek, and dress accordingly, though I sometimes wear polo shirts and leather shoes. Blue jeans go with everything, and I have a few pairs that are a size or two too large specifically so I can carry comfortably...well, I could carry comfortably while I was in WA, now I'm back in CA, I can't. :fire: I digress.

I was browsing around one of the gun shops in the Bay Area, minding my own business. While not well-known to the shopkeepers, they recognize me, recall I've spent several thousand dollars there, and am, to the best of their knowledge, a lawful, good citizen. I say "please" and "thank you" when asking to see various powders, guns, etc.

In walks a young man, 18-22, white, wearing incredibly oversized jeans. Shoes are invisible beneath the baggy pants. He's wearing a basketball jersey that comes halfway down his thighs, a baseball cap on sideways, and frequently gestures with his hands while talking. These gestures are often the sort of "puffing up" gestures one sees from "thuggish" types, and are common in pop-culture rap music videos and so forth. While not confrontational, he is very upfront, direct, and invasive. He displays an immediate interest in the numerous pistols on display under the glass. Rather than looking at all the pistols more suitable for everyday use such as Glocks, 1911s, Walthers, S&Ws, Sigs, H&Ks, etc., he immediately makes a beeline for the S&W .500 Mag revolver.

The shopkeeper, who I know carries concealed in his shop, casually unbuttons his vest. He's obviously got the same bad feeling about this guy that I do.

The young man utters various words of admiration and interest, and seems to be unconcerned with the massive recoil and cost of this particular firearm, and makes comments that he's more interested in the "bling" factor than the actual utility of that revolver.

When he asks to handle the revolver, he asks in a rather brusque, impolite fashion. Obviously sensing something is wrong, the shopkeeper politely declines. Young guy whines a bit, then offers to buy it. Shopkeeper says that he's welcome to buy it, so long as he had a means of paying for it and fills out the 4473. Kid inquires about paperless transaction (alarm bells start going off in my head here, as the kid asked about this IN THE MIDDLE OF A GUN STORE with other customers around). Shopkeep declines, stating that the law requires paperwork and a NICS check. Kid asks if they take credit cards, to which the shopkeeper replies in the affirmative. Kid inquires if they accept credit cards over the phone, explaining that his grandmother would be paying for this. Shopkeeper again declines, stating that they need the card here in person, and the individual buying the gun must be the one paying for it. Repeated inquiries and requests are all met in the negative.

Kid turns to leave, and says something along the lines of "if I had a gun already, you'd probably sell it to me, wouldn't you?", then leaves.

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this last comment (not-so-thinly-veiled threat?), but something was definitely unusual. Perhaps it was nothing, but the hair on my neck was standing up, the second guy behind the counter moved casually to an area where he'd have a good field of fire on the customer, and me, being unarmed, moved out of the potential crossfire area near where all the long guns were kept on racks. If S were to HTF, I could readily grab a rifle (one can pick up and handle them, as they're on the shop floor) and buttstroke the bad guy if it came down to it. (Perhaps a bayonet charge? :evil: I know that would probably reflect badly in court, and isn't really a serious solution, but fun to think about.)

Sure, I was profiling, but it was based solely on behavior, demeanor, actual speech, method of speech, and appearance. In this case, it was nice that things worked out well, and I was able to go home that night. No harm, no foul to anyone involved, though the adrenaline was flowing a bit.

Wow, this turned out to be quite a bit longer than I thought. Sorry.
 
cookekdjr=

nice ! very excellent way to define the difference-
Wrong.
Racial profiling = pulling a car because the driver is black.
Profiling = customs agents stop black women flying from Nigeria to NYC for a one day business trip carrying no luggage, large amounts of cash, and sporting facial scars indicative of small Nigerian tribes whose members are recruited to smuggle herion in their body cavities on one-day business trips to NYC while carrying large amounts of cash.
See the difference?
 
took it by your question ("How often is that difference applied in the real world?") that this was not something you dealt with every day (like I do). Maybe I'm confused here. If you deal with this every day, then you know that profiles, to be effective, must include a number of specific characteristics. If you're just pulling over everybody of a specific race, its racial profiling, its wrong, and you'll get in trouble with the Justice Department (like, say, Villa Rica, Georgia's Police Department

Now I get it. I was taking your argument as racial profiling not occurring in the real world, which I've heard some LEOs argue (i.e. "we would never do that.")
 
CombatArms

Sorry. Scoots are Harleys and cages are cars. Pretty friendly place here....sometimes I feel like I'm addressing my Bros, albeit with 'slightly' cleaned up language.
Biker :)
 
Crime Stats ????

Sure would like to see a breakdown of percentages of crimes by race or ethnic group.Any one have that?
 
Sure would like to see a breakdown of percentages of crimes by race or ethnic group.Any one have that?

This is the best I can find so far for the closest city to me.

Top 3 races only.

Tulsa, OK. Population by race:
  • White......75%
  • Black.......10.9%
  • Hispanic...4.5%

Tulsa, OK. Violent crime by race:
  • White......51.5%
  • Black.......36.9%
  • Hispanic...6.0%

Source
 
I once arrested a DUI. The car made a wide turn and was weaving. When I got to court, the driver, a black man, said that I racially profiled him because his car looked like the type a young black male who sold drugs would drive. You know the type. Early Buick with rims that cost more than the car, jacked up in the back with tinted windows. I was astounded. He actually admited that he was driving a car because it made him look like something he wasn't, and then had the nerve to say I racially profiled him. Not that I ever stopped a car because of what it looked like, but to hear him admit he was purposely trying to portray a less than "civic" image and then complaining about a supposed impression that he meant to make almost made me laugh.
 
He actually admited that he was driving a car because it made him look like something he wasn't, and then had the nerve to say I racially profiled him.

Yeah, I get similar comments from some of our "customers" every now and then. If they think you don't listen to them it's all "German idiots" and "potato eaters" (I swear I didn't make that one up :)) and as soon as you catch them redhanded the whole "You racist cop only stopped me because I'm a foreigner" thing starts. Funny thing is that most of them have lived in Germany all their lives and some of them actually are German citizens...


Regards,

Trooper
 
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