Old Army Heavy Load

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frosty

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I Had my stainless old army out to test a "heavier" load to be used on a Missouri wild hog / whitetail hunt. The gun in question is an 1985 7 1/2" with adjustable sights. I threw 42 gr Pyrodex P from a Lyman #55 powder measure through a drop tube, with a 255 gr hard cast rnfp 45 colt bullet seated on top. That is the maximum I can shoot, and still be able to seat the bullet's nose below the cylinder face. Bullets were obtained unsized at.455 dia., and I made a basic die to size only the bottom bearing band of the bullet, to facilitate straight loading of the bullet, which is critical for accuracy. A small amount lube on top of the cylinder face, Remington #10 caps-(best fit), and a clover leaf group was shot at 25 yds. Suprisingly, leading was not an issue, and the gun shot a tight group, more than acceptable for a 40 yd and under hunting situatiun with a black powder pistol. The front sight has been changed to a higher dimension to compansate for heavy bullet recoil. Now, do I back bore the cylinder to gain an additional 5-8 gr more powder space:eek:, gaining 75 more fps? This particular load in the stock cylinder chrono's around 1180 fps for around 800 foot pounds energy. Anyone want to go Missouri way?:what:
 
I suggest that you measure the diameter of the chamber mouth, which should be .452" give-or-take. If you are using a hard bullet rather then a pure lead one the bullet rammer is being strained, and it may end up failing or deformed. Also it appears that you are driving a .455" bullet down what could be a .452" bore, although the chamber will size the bullet, but by doing it the hard way.

You can enlarge the chamber depth to use more powder, but how much increased velocity you'd get is open to question. You can only burn so much powder in a 7 1/2" barrel. Thereafter what you get is muzzle blast, and or unburnt powder scattered on the ground.
 
Old Army load

I am using a small arbor press converted into a precision loading stand. As for the ,455 dia, most projectiles for the old army are .457, because a .452 bullet doesnt have enough press to seal the chamber and hold it in place. By sizing the base of the bullet only, it starts in straight, and a small, even ring of lead is shaven around the bullet. As for gained velocity for powder increase, the chrono will decide. I will also be observing for signs of exessive pressure.
 
You might want to look at the Hodgdons site and check out 777. It seems to be a little hotter than Pyrodex and you might get an increase in velocity that way.
I'm looking into hog hunting in Okalohoma for late spring, planning to use a T/C Hawken .50... I might drag the ROA along just for fun.
 
Ruger Old Army

I can legally hunt for whitetail with the cap and ball, and still carry a muzzle loading rifle at the same time during Missouri's black powder season. I will keep the shots under 40 yds.
 
Ruger Old Army for Hunting

Frosty -

Our Classicballistx ROA cylinder had you in mind!

My hunting load is 47gr (by weight) of 777fff, a hard felt wad impregnated with bore butter, and paper patched 225gr swaged pure lead round nose. The bullets are a ringband design with a slight concave at the base so the patch twist tucks. The bullets are .444 and after passing through a sizer to snug the patch, the patched bullet measures .449. My lapped bore measures .448/.457 - my chambers are lapped to .449. I load using attachments on my ancient RCBS press and a Lyman #55.

The combination gives about 1350fps (about 900fpe) in my ROA. I use musket cap tubes and RWS match caps - they don't blow away like pistol caps do. I'm guessing I get about 90% burn. The accuracy in my gun is match grade. I get no leading and precious little powder fouling. The patch pieces I find look just like I want them, cut but not ragged.

It kills hogs dead at hog range - which, for me, is zero to 20 yards. I've taken deer with it out to 40 yards - one shot, dead. The load makes a straight, .444 hole through a turkey which is convenient if I place the shot badly. This is a lot more powerful than the venerable .44-40, and they killed all kinds of game with that.

I'd like to tell you I've shot a lot of this hot load, but it's a bit hard on the hand for plugging turtles. That load for me is 34gr 777fff, a 185gr swaged open point pure lead, unpatched, and a couple of wads, one soft felt, one hard felt. This load is about 970fps, match accurate, and easy to shoot a dozen cylinders worth in an afternoon. Same load in a Ruger cylinder does really well with just the hard wad. Since I switched all my cylinders to musket cap tubes, I've never looked back - no blown cap jams and perfect ignition.

I hope your hunting is good! ROA's are a way of life!

Wisent
 
That sounds interesting! I saw your Old Army cylinders on another thread. Do you have a website? I think we'd all be interested to know what other products and services you offer, too. :)
 
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Now that is a good deal. Maybe I'll take two. I noticed you're advertizing in different spots - FiringLine, Ruger forum, muzzleloading forum, ebay...so I know you're legit. Although, someone was selling the exact cylinders on ebay for (if I remember correctly) $100.00.
Where have you been? We need a specialty gunsmith such as yourself, especially since that whole BigIron fiasco. But you're in Texas, correct? Miles away from Ohio...
Do you have a mailing address? A website? I have many irons that...ah, hold on. Gotta turn down my stereo. Bobby Sherman singing "Julie Do You Love Me..."
So, do you have a website? Looks like a great product.
 
Thanks for the kind remarks, folks.

You can probably see that we've been WEB inept. You're right about our eBay pricing fiasco - we've been inept at that, too, going all over the map. A couple of folks got real bargains there.

Right now, our only product is the ROA replacement which has gotten a nice - if small - reception. Well, two months of low key and experimental marketing has gotten some folks a nice bargain.

That cylinder is made of really nice precipitation hardened stainless in tolerances a lot closer than Ruger's with a capacity that allows tolerable ballistic performance for hunting.

If I can figure out cleaning up my trading post on THR, we're going to settle in on a price of $150 + shipping which is a nice economic bargain compared to the alternative of getting a Ruger factory item. That's about a $200 proposition these days and you have to stretch the truth sending your ROA to Ruger without a cylinder.

We have some nice cap & ball projects in development for the next year that address particular needs of bullseye shooters, CAS folks, and hunters, but we're not there yet for coming to market with them. For right now, you can get us at [email protected]. Our classicballistx.com website is in construction.

To answer one other issue, yes we’re in Texas – Dallas until we can move out on the Sabine headwater. I’d appreciate it if you would not introduce “MANY IRONS” or anything related there to correspondence with me. Allow me to dismiss that by saying that outfit cost me lots of money, delayed a year in getting our products to their present stage, and left me mad enough to spit nails. I believe in moving ahead and, while forgetting that past is impossible, leaving it to rot is my way. It’s getting to be far enough behind that the smell of it all fades until I’m reminded to look back and sniff…

I look forward to hearing from you. ROA is a way of life!

Wisent
 
Seriously, I just bought a Ruger, and a drop in cylinder would be great, especially at that price, but I hesitate buying anything anywhere online. Have you considered Auction Arms or Gunbroker? That way you, or we, would get feedback. A few good sales, trust is established, and you're off and running.
 
Did I see the word ManyIrons in this post ..Not a good way to gain trust ...
Whats next ThirdRail Road.
 
’d appreciate it if you would not introduce “MANY IRONS” or anything related there to correspondence with me. Allow me to dismiss that by saying that outfit cost me lots of money, delayed a year in getting our products to their present stage, and left me mad enough to spit nails.
Click to expand...

That part doesn't seem positive to me, if he was using ManyIrons to gain trust.
 
In all fairness, I'm the one that mentioned "many irons" in my post before his. He was just responding to my tongue-in-cheek reference to "many irons".
I really do hope this business is legit.
 
Old Army cylinders - update

I posted an updated price on the trading post - take a look at it because there's more. The standard cylinder - which holds about 11 more grains FFF than the OEM - is $149.50 + 6.50 shipping. We do some nice stuff for folks who buy more than one, but this will be our retail price floor due to dealer agreements.

I also understand folks' hesitancy to buy from someone quite new. We're listed on eBay - search Ruger and cylinder and you'll find us - same price, but no lagniappe because of eBay costs. There you can pay there through PayPal and get their buyer protection - no cost to you. It works.

Thanks for looking and drop me a line at [email protected] if you have a question.

Wisent
 
800 foot pounds of energy from a traditional

Ruger Old Army is not uncommon. Someone once said that if loaded properly, the Old Army can pound out .41 Magnum class performance. 800 foot pounds, that's definitely in the .44 Magnum class. I think it was on one of these self defense/martial arts sites.

Now, for the conversions, I know that the ROA conversions can be loaded with super-hot loads from Corbon/Dakota. These loads, I haven't tried them yet, but just by looking at the specs of these loads, I can tell they ought to be in the low .454 Casull class of performance:eek:
 
Pancho, "Many Irons" had to do with the BigIron Barrel fiasco, in which many people were ripped off through this and other forums. I threw out a feeler to make sure that "Classicballistx" was not involved with BigIron Barrel. After communicating with Classicballistx, I am totally convinced that they had nothing to do with BigIron Barrel, other than getting ripped off by them, too.
Classicballistx offers a cylinder for the Ruger Old Army that is intriguing - it holds 10 grs more powder than the factory cylinder. It's on my list of toys and accessories to buy this summer (hopefully).
Check out their website.
 
Actually, the more people that know about Bigiron Barrels, the better we all are. The owner/crook is now in jail, from what I understand, but when he gets out, he'll be scamming again, so it's good to know how he operates.
 
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