old japanese rifle

[bigun454]

i got this rifle from my dad and we dont know much about it. what i gather from wikipedia is that it may be a type 38 but not sure the have only vague details.they have no close ups of markings that would distinguish type.my rifle is 44 inches long with a 25 inch barrel.it appears to have file marks at the front of the receiver(I presume that is where the mum would be)above some japanese script.the ser.number is 763** followed by what looks like an 8 in a circle.It also has a few other stamps on it that are hard to tell.Any info some one could give would be great.Thanks.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

Might want to edit the post and modify the serial to 763** as that is the thing to do around here. I can tell you that it is a modified Mauser action but other than that I am a Russian and US gun guy.

 

[Six O'clock Tactical]

definately sounds like a captured type 38.

really rare with the imperial flower still intact, but its still a good item.

congrats on (what i can assume to be) a beautiful and collectable example of recent combat history.

 

[Indifferent]

I was wondering, what you think of the "Quality" of said rifle? Like actual build quality.

 

[bigun454]

this is the quote from wikipedia"
Post-war inspection of the Type 38 by both the US military and the NRA proved that the Type 38's receiver was the strongest bolt action of any nation and capable of handling more powerful cartridges.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

If I remember correctly my girlfriend's grandfather had one he brought back that was modified to shoot 30-06. I may be mistaken on that. I know that they are going for around $250-400 based on condition around here. As for the action and history I'm sure someone far more knowledgeable than I will come along.

 

[bigun454]

i am not sure about cal. but i think it is a 6.5x50. I would like to use it for a hog hunter.It has a great peep and shoulders really well.

 

[bannockburn]

bigun454

Definitely sounds like a Type 38 Arisaka Short Rifle (1905). It was 44 1/4" long with a 25 1/4" barrel, and weighed about 8.5 pounds. It was made from 1905 to 1939, when several design changes were implemented, along with a caliber change to 7.7mm., resulting in the Type 99 rifle. To quote Frank de Haas from his book, Bolt Action Rifles:

A modified Mauser design, the Type 38 has several features distinctly of Mauser design, but a couple of others which were new and entirely Japanese designed. These new features make this action different from any other military bolt action made before or since. In some ways it is a crude action, not being very easy to operate, but it is simple and very strong.

In the section de Haas wrote about the Type 38, he also related a story where an amateur gunsmith rechambered a Type 38 to accept a .30-06 cartridge, but left the original 6.5mm. barrel on. He test fired it, then used it again to go deer hunting. After experiencing considerable discomfort from the recoil, he took it to a gunsmith to find out what the problem was. The gunsmith quickly noticed the obvious discrepancy about the original barrel (forcing a .30 caliber bullet down a .264 caliber barrel), and sent the rifle to the NRA for further testing. The NRA test fired some more rounds through it, and still the action and the barrel remained intact. From this experience, deHaas concluded that not only was high quality steel used throughout the construction of the bolt, receiver, and barrel of the Type 38, but that the breech and locking design were superior as well.

 

[Ian]

You have a Type 38 Cavalry carbine. Unless Bubba got to it with a Dremel, it's chambered for 6.5 Japanese, aka 6.5x50.

This particular variant of the Type 38 is fairly uncommon, and it's not known how many were produced (the common ones are the Type 38 long rifle with a 31" barrel and Type 38 Carbine with a 19" barrel). It's speculated that they were made for mounted troops, hence the cavalry name given to them by collectors. FYI, the cleaning rod is also a fairly valuable bit, since they were made specifically for the 25" barrel. Make sure not to lose it if you have it.

The figure 8 in a circle mark is actually the stamp indicating the Nagoya arsenal. That really doesn't signify anything in your case, though, because all the cavalry carbines were made at Nagoya.

 

[Vaarok]

Photographs would be especially useful, 'cause if there's anything modified, broken, or unusual/valuable, we can tell almost instantly, rather than guesstimate based on a text description.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Unless Bubba got to it with a Dremel, it's chambered for 6.5 Japanese, aka 6.5x50.

I'd sure like to know how to ream a chamber to a different caliber with a dremel. C'mon now, just because the caliber is changed doesn't mean it was poorly sporterized. Many a good gunsmith have properly reamed a milsurp.

 

[doc2rn]

Make sure it wasnt converted into .257 Roberts before you go shoot it. Alot of Arisaka bring backs where converted to a popular US caliber as all the surplus ammo went into the bay.

 

[oneshooter]

Japanese Type 38 rifle.

A few pictures are worth more than a thousand descriptians!!

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[MMCSRET]

P.O. Ackley tested a type 38 and 39 by pulling the bullets and replacing the service propellant with a case full of bullseye pistol powder, secured the rifles and fired using a drawstring. Both rifles stayed in one piece, bolt had to be driven open but no obvious cracks. He also concluded that they were the strongest design. circa 1946

 

[rangerruck]

if you have one built before 44 I think, they were made nicely, and not the throw aways, they built before the end. the 38's were in 2 cals, one of themodels was actually built in Italy, and is super rare. the 6.5 x 50 is such a great , mild mannered cart, it is a lot like a 260 remington. came in grains 139 , 140 and 160. Norma makes the 160's. the others can be found as milsurp, but it is still going to be expensive. it is also an accurate rifle, and that rear site is dead on, I just tested one of mine, and from 100 to 400 yds, that rear ladder was right on the spot.
As stated above, the action/receiver is over built , by far the strongest of all the WW2 rifles.

 

[buck00]

On a side note, I'd hang onto it. You may think it would fetch a really high price but not really. I have a pristine Type 99 bring-back captured at Okinowa, (with mum) and it was appalling at how little the market value was... so it was better to hang onto it.

 

[Chipperman]

The collector value of nice Arisakas has been going up over the past few years, but is still much lower than WWII main service rifles for UK, USA, Germany.

I predict they will increase much more in the next several years. Hang on to it.

 

[Vaarok]

I'd actually say that it's not true anymore. On the Pacific coast and Northeast, I and my buddy Albacore have been seeing good quality matching Japanese rifles start to compete with decent K98K and M1903s. The very best examples of the Japanese stuff are still quite a bit lower than the pristine American or German, but I sincerely doubt for much longer.

Type 99s with all the goodies are pushing $500 easy if they're good.

 

[flphotoguy]

I own a Type 38 Arisaka that was given to my brother, now deceased, by a WW II vet. A lot of these guns did make it to the US after the war, but in an unusual way. When the weapons were captured, they were disassembled and put in cases for shipping. Back in the US, they were reassembled and given to the GIs, but care was not taken to match the serial numbers of the parts. If you have one with matching serial numbers, and the bayonet, it is a valuable antique. Even without matching numbers, they are nice collectors items. You can still find ammo, but it is about $2 per round.

 

[MMCSRET]

At a gun show in Montana about 10 yrs. ago I saw a type 38 1911 cavalry carbine complete with sling and folding bayonet sell for $1100.00

 

[Ian]

If it had a folding bayonet, it was a Type 44 carbine.

Prices on the Japanese stuff have been climbing for some time now, most obviously with the rarer items. Things like snipers, paratrooper rifles, North China Type 19s, and Type 44s are all worth a fair bit now. The steady deterioration of the bells and whistles over the course of the war makes Japanese arms a great area for collectors. There aren't too many basic models, but tons of smaller variations.

 

[Funderb]

I'm pretty sure the mosin action has a little more beef to it.

 

[MMCSRET]

Ian, thanks, you are right on the Type 44

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'm pretty sure the mosin action has a little more beef to it.

beef doesn't beat quality of steel. my understanding, from a local smith who has experience in such things, is that the Japanese built the strongest rifles during WW II