Old RCBS Dies

[JimKirk]

Mike & others ... I have Instructions for the dies ... I will scan and post shortly ... I have two sets of .44 SP & .44 Mag RCBS dies(1977) ... one set is setup just like the first photo(44)... the other is setup just like the set of .38 SP in your second photo(1981)... the instructions are the same for both sets.... I also have a set of Lyman .44 SP&Mag(197?) that is a four die set pretty much like the .45 dies you have ...

 

[JimKirk]

Here you go ...

 

[mikemyers]

Here you go ...

Thanks!!! That's what my dies look like, but none of the instruction booklets show what you just posted!! I'll send this to John at RCBS.

 

[fguffey]

'fguffey', John, at RCBS, called them "old"

The question was rhetorical. John called them old, I should have said I have instructions for real old dies, I also with the dies. Dies made before the progressive press had the primer punch on the expander die. Progressive presses primed on the first station and punched the primers on the same station. The primer punch function was moved to the full length sizing die.

RCBS made an aluminum bodied die for case mouth expanding, reloaders could have removed the primer punch from the original case expander die by grinding. A few reloaders adjusted the die to size and seat every time they used their dies. The very old 38 Special reloading dies would work for both the 38 Special and the 357 Magnum. Problem it took a while for manufacturers to figure it out so they made a set of dies for the 357 Magnum that would not seat bullets for the 38 Special. Then they made a set of dies for the 44 Remington Magnum that would not seat bullets for the 44 Special.

Newer sets of dies include a spacer for raising the seating die when seating bullets for the magnum cases.

F. Guffey

 

[mikemyers]

Thanks for both the information, and the reasons behind the information - why things happened.

I'm curious -did these changes come about because RCBS (and presumably others) had dies that worked perfectly on single station presses, but needed to change the dies so they would also work on a progressive press?


From my little corner of the world, I'm happy. All the bits and pieces cleaned up nicely (a few more I still need to do), and I'm pretty sure I now have the information to set them up.

(I'll be out of town for a week or so, also helping a relative set up his brand new Dillon 550, and during that time, I hope to buy the powder, primers, etc., so I will be up and running by the end of the following week.)

 

[jell-dog]

Here you go ...

JimKirk,
Ya beat me to it!
I have a 1974 3 Die set RCBS 18307, 38 SPL WC and the instructions you posted will work fine!

Have at it mikemyers, those instructions are right on

IMHO, bullet seating without crimping is easier to set up and adjust, then crimp as last operation.

The above opinion assumes you are loading on a single stage, you would need 2 of the #3 seating/crimp dies on a turret or progressive press.
JD

 

[mikemyers]

......The above opinion assumes you are loading on a single stage, you would need 2 of the #3 seating/crimp dies on a turret or progressive press....

I understand why I would need two of the #3 seating/crimp die on a turret or progressive press - one would be set to "seat", and the second one would be set to "crimp".

Wouldn't it be the same for the single stage press, or do you mean you would use the one die for seating, and later use the same die again, but reset for crimping?


I'm mostly all set - just need to get the reloading supplies.

 

[jell-dog]

I understand why I would need two of the #3 seating/crimp die on a turret or progressive press - one would be set to "seat", and the second one would be set to "crimp".
Wouldn't it be the same for the single stage press, or do you mean you would use the one die for seating, and later use the same die again, but reset for crimping?
I'm mostly all set - just need to get the reloading supplies.

MM,
For single stage, I load in "batches" of 50 to 100 or more cartridges.
With the older RCBS 3 die set I have like yours, I size all my brass with the first die (#1, size die) for the batch (Actually, I resize and inspect all my cleaned brass in one session, reload in another).

You will need to use a little sizing lube, these are steel dies and you will not get away without lubricant like you can with carbide dies.
Some reloaders lube every 4th or 5th case, I just put the brass in a gallon zip-lock bag with a light shot or 2 of one shot sizing lube and play shake-n-bake
A little goes a long way, do not use wax based lube or you will get stuck cases!

Then I decap/expand the amount of cases I will be reloading with #2 die.
With plated or jacketed bullets, only bell enough so you can balance the bullet on the case mouth as you raise the ram to seat.
With lead bullets, you will need to bell slightly more, enough so you don't shave the bullet as you seat it.

Next, seat the primers in the cases, either using a hand primer or a primer arm on your press.
I personally like hand priming, but others like priming on the press.

I then charge each case, then place it in a case tray.

I then seat my bullets with #3 die in all cases for the batch.

Last, I re-adjust #3 die to crimp the case the proper amount, crimping all bullet/cases.
Over-crimping plated bullets can damage the plating and lead bullet underneath.
For 38spl target or mid loads, I have found a light to medium crimp is all that is necessary.
As you gain more experience, you will be very able to judge amount of crimp needed.

I hope this was not to basic an example, not sure of your reloading experience.

Happy reloading!
JD

 

[mikemyers]

Too basic??? Nope. Excellent with a capital E. Very simple, very logical... will print it out, and start out following it exactly. .....but should I not use the RCBS lube on the lube tray that I used so long ago? I've never yet seen "one shot re-sizing lube", so it's probably something that wasn't available in the 80's.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Stuck cases...

Jell-dog--And others--I hear this "Don't use wax lubes; they stick cases" from you and others in this thread.

Have NEVER heard of this before, anywhere. Been using Imperial Sizing Die Wax for years with XLNT results, never a hint of a case sticking.

Has anyone here actually gotten a case stuck, using a wax-based case lube? Ever?

What you normally hear for the Imperial wax is everybody who uses it, singing its praises. (The guys who use One-shot don't like Imperial. But they have their own partiality.)

C'mon, guys--Is this real, or is this the reloaders' version of an urban legend?

Not your uncle's friend. Not your girlfriend's stepfather's grandfather. Have YOU ever stuck a case in a die, using a wax lube properly??? Emphasis: properly.

 

[JimKirk]

do not use wax based lube or you will get stuck cases!

You guys need quit spouting this crap .... you may have some one believing it ....

As you know some of the best lubes out there are WAX based lubes .... and they work!

Imperial is the best in my opinion and other wax based work well if you use it like it should be used ....

In reference to the "letter" from RCBS concerning wax lube be a huge percent of stuck dies .... I will say shame on RCBS for spouting this utter BS .... I have always used RCBS from the very beginning of my reloading "habit" which started in 1965 ... this yes year will be 50 years of reloading ...

A large percent of those folks who manage to stick cases.... just flat fail to lube or failed to use lube correctly ...

Every body needs to clean their dies from time to time ... a quick blast of carb cleaner or Gun Blaster will clean any gunk right out ... just make sure to coat the dies with a light coat of oil ...

 

[JimKirk]

I just put the brass in a gallon zip-lock bag with a light shot or 2 of one shot sizing lube and play shake-n-bake

Jello ... you do realize that Hornady OneShot is WAX based don't you? Just happens to be sheep WAX(lanolin), but it is WAX ...

 

[jell-dog]

MM,
PM Sent.
JD

 

[jell-dog]

Jell-dog--And others--I hear this "Don't use wax lubes; they stick cases" from you and others in this thread.

Has anyone here actually gotten a case stuck, usi
Not your uncle's friend. Not your girlfriend's stepfather's grandfather. Have YOU ever stuck a case in a die, using a wax lube properly??? Emphasis: properly.

Short answer, me personally? NO!
I use Carbide dies and clean them every so often.
Run a search on this forum for stuck cases, you'll get your first hand experiences with stuck cases.
That Imperial is an EXCELLENT wax based lube, IF, as you say, you use it properly.
JD

 

[JimKirk]

Run a search on this forum for stuck cases, you'll get your first hand experiences with stuck cases.

And 98% of them are because they did not use lube or miss used it ... I dare say very very few were because the product is WAX based...

 

[fguffey]

I'd have to agree--Stuck cases are almost always caused by NO lube. I have stuck one or 2 myself that way. Have never heard any accusations against Imperial Sizing Die Wax prior to this--Normally what your hear is universal praise for it.

Then there are those that have their mind made up and those that have spent too much time promoting a product they are afraid failure will hurt their reputation.

I have helped with sizing problems experienced by other reloaders. Before putting together a few tools I have already been instructed: "If this job can not be accomplished with Imperial Sizing Wax, forget it. I do not believe I will ever build a predigest against something with 'no-name'.

F. Guffey

 

[jell-dog]

Off topic

JimKirk, fguffey,Smokey Joe,

The topic, as the OP asked, is Old RCBS Dies, and instructions for their use.

Discussing pros & cons of various lube is off topic.

You focused on ONE LINE of my explanation to MM on the use of RCBS STEEL 3 DIE set to rant about.
Sorry, I must have hit a sore spot.

If you have suggestions of the proper lube to use with STEEL dies, then by all means, give suggestions and thoughts to the OP using your preferred lube along with your experience and how to use tips with that lube on STEEL dies.
He IS asking for advice using STEEL dies after-all.

Evidently, you gentlemen are master re-loaders, with decades more experience than I have, so I will defer to your vast reloading knowledge and experience.

Happy and safe reloading to all

JD

 

[JimKirk]

If you had read my all post in this thread ... you will see that I already have gave him lots of advise ...good advise and not something I read off the net somewhere but hands on advise ....

What really ticks me off is folks spreading information that they have no experience with or even a good understanding about .... and according to your own words ... you have never had a stuck brass using wax products ... please quit spreading rumors ....

 

[mikemyers]

Hi everyone. Yep, my question was about my "old" RCBS steel dies. Thanks to this discussion, I now have good advice on how to set them up and use them (which was completely lacking in the RCBS booklets that I have).

I still have my old RCBS lube pad, and a tube of lube. My current plan is to continue using it; never had any problems in the past.

As to information, you guys have more than the people at RCBS! Without sending photos of what I have, I don't think they really understood what I've got. For me, I'd like to keep all this as simple as a can; improvements can always be made later on. If there is a better lube, or if the newer dies will make life much easier for me, maybe I'll upgrade - but not right now.

 

[Sunray]

Please reduce the size of your pictures.
Stuff from 1980 isn't old. snicker. Use 'em the same way you do 2015 non-carbide dies. Same as you do a rifle set. Set up the same way too.
The only die in a carbide set that has a carbide anything is the sizer die. Rest of 'em are plain old steel.
"...lots of advise...good advise..." That'd be advice.
"...almost always caused by NO lube..." Or not enough. The kind used really makes no difference.

 

[fguffey]

xxxxxxx, fguffey, xxxxxxxx,

The topic, as the OP asked, is Old RCBS Dies, and instructions for their use.

Discussing pros & cons of various lube is off topic.

Guilty, I have instructions, my instructions include dies, old dies and very old dies. Some of my instructions are in RCBS lime colored fiber boxes. Other instructions include cam over presses, other instructions include instructions for non cam over presses.

F. Guffey

 

[mikemyers]

Please reduce the size of your pictures.....

I've been making many of my photos up to 1280 pixels wide, which is good on many (but not all) computer screens. How large would you like them to be? The smaller the picture, the less detail that can be shown, but if the picture is too big, I know how annoying that can be. Should I back things down to 800 pixels wide?


Regarding Dies, while I was asking about help with "Old RCBS Dies", I wouldn't mind in the slightest if people also talk about carbide dies, dies from back in the 1950's, or earlier.... I've already got the information I needed (THANKS!!!) so use this thread for whatever additional discussions that you feel might be useful.

(Being the OP just means I'm the first person entering something here - it's not "my" thread, it's "everyone's" thread.

 

[mikemyers]

Here you go ...

============================================

I'm slow. I'm finally actually doing things, now that my "shop" is set up. One box of 38 Special cases are now cleaned, and ready to start processing. I have a Big Max press, with the three-jaw automatic shell holder that adjusts to the size of the shell being worked on.

I only got up to the first step before I got stuck. The instructions include the following:

"Screw the Sizer Die into the press until the Die touches the top of the Shell Holder when the Shell Holder is brought up to the top of the press stroke. Be sure all play is removed from the press leverage system. To do this, adjust the Die as above, lower the Shell Holder and set the Die 1/8 of a turn lower. Set the large lock ring securely against the face of the press."
​

On my Big Max press, the lock ring had to be at the very top of the threads, and a slight amount further, for the shell holder to touch the Die. I called RCBS to verify what I thought I was supposed to do. The technician told me NOT to follow those instructions, as I'm loading for a handgun, not a rifle, but to adjust the Die JUST TOUCHES the shell holder, and to disregard the instructions about taking up any extra play.

Unless anyone here criticizes what I've been told, that's how I'll leave it.

Oh, and thanks again to JimKirk for finding and posting these instructions!!


[resize=400] [/resize]

 

[rcmodel]

Mike
See this about photos.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=764865

640 or 800 tops work best for me.

Too big is especially annoying on small laptops & smart phones.

And infuriating if you are not on hi-speed cable and have to wait for them to down-load.

rc

 

[notaglockfanboy]

If you had read my all post in this thread ... you will see that I already have gave him lots of advise ...good advise and not something I read off the net somewhere but hands on advise ....

What really ticks me off is folks spreading information that they have no experience with or even a good understanding about .... and according to your own words ... you have never had a stuck brass using wax products ... please quit spreading rumors ....

I agree with you 110%.