old-time handles-forward quick draw

[roscoe]

Can somebody explain how the butt-forward carrying style makes for a quick draw? I understand how it might be useful when driving a car or something like that, but otherwise I would think that it would slow you down when slapping leather.

In HBO's Deadwood Bill Hickock carries his Colts butt-forward and he is the quickest draw around. This is supposed to have been a common carrying style according to many dubious references. What gives?

 

[jobu07]

If it is not a cross-draw we are talking about and indeed carrying on the strong side, a few of the western legends carried there six-guns that way. I suppose can be faster if you practice and seem to be a natural for doing it that. You kinda have to have the nack of it, otherwise it's just awkward. What it does is position your elbow perpindicular to the gun, kinda at a 90 degree angle to it. The way I understand it you are moving your arm less that way than a "traditional" draw. Instead of up and forward you're just moving it at a diaganol forward. Hope this convaluted explanation helps. FWIW, a friend of mine draws this way from leather and is pretty quick.

 

[mete]

Are you talking about right hand draw from right side , butt forward ? Then at one point in the draw you are pointing the gun at yourself ! This is very dangerous.

 

[Old Fuff]

This was called the "cavalry draw" because horse soldiers wore their revolvers on the right side, butt-forward and (sometimes) a saber on the left side. It was a very common mode of carry during the percussion cap & ball era up through the 1890's. Non-cavalrymen sometimes carried two revolvers in this fashion, either holstered or just stuck behind a sash or belt.

In making the draw, which was very fast if the user was practiced, the pistol did at one point sweep across the person's body as mete pointed out. But it wasn't as unsafe as some might think because the single-action revolver wasn't cocked until the muzzle was down range.

If one was carrying two six-guns thay also had the option to go to cross-draw, and sometimes did.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Are you talking about right hand draw from right side , butt forward ? Then at one point in the draw you are pointing the gun at yourself ! This is very dangerous.

Not if you keep your finger off the trigger.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The butt-forward or "cavalry draw" was for horsemen. A mounted man cannot turn as easily as a man on foot can, and is vulnerable from the left and left rear. The solution is to use the left hand to cover the area of vulnerability. If carrying only one revolver, carry it so it can be drawn with either hand -- that is, butt forward on the right side.

 

[Jim Watson]

Chic Gaylord showed some interesting pictures of the high and low cavalry draw in Handgunner's Guide. He and his demonstrator are definitely sweeping their leg. Their single actions are not cocked at the time. Might be a little risky with a DA or auto.

 

[BigG]

Wild Bill carried a brace of Navy Colts butt forward thrust in a sash. He crossed his arms and rested his hands on the butts, very natural looking and very quick on the draw.

 

[Jim Watson]

Well, he did for his formal portraits, anyhow. I have read that he wore holsters for daily carry.

 

[Logan5]

The official idea was that you'd draw and use your revolver lefty, since you'd be drawing and using your sabre with your right hand, and managing your reins with your third hand. Of course, no... not so much. So you unsnap the flap and twist your arm around and back for the "cavalry" or "twist" draw... Perfectly safe as long as you keep that thumb off the hammer, where it wants to be, for a good while longer than you'd want to if there were lots of pissed off enemy troopers about. I guess anything you practice enough will seem pretty fast to someone who practices not at all, or in context, only loading a rifled musket.

 

[roscoe]

I guess I am still not sure how you could do it fast. I mean, Shane carried it high on the strong side - that I get.

 

[Gunnutz13]

When I practice...

my fast draw from a single holster with leg tie down (on my right hand side)... as my hand hits the hog leg of my Ruger Bisley Vaquero, my thumb engages the hammer, and as I bring the weapon from the scabard, I'm cocking it as I swing it up and thrust it out to point shoot, pulling the trigger as the barrel comes level with the target, with my body going into a reflexive crouch, bending at the knees slightly while my unarmed hand swings slightly backwards to counter-balance the hand with firearm being moved forward. Practice this enough and it becomes a fluid, second nature, reflex. I usually practice with the weapon unloaded, in front of a mirror, making sure that the presentation is not only swift...but precise. When I practice this with the gun loaded and bring it to bear on a B-27 silhouette at 10 yards, I hit center mass every time ( outdoor range only...indoor ranges frown on fast draw live fire, and there is usually a ledge in front of the stall ).
In keeping with the thread...I've watched every episode of Deadwood, seen Carradine's depiction of Wild Bill, and noticed the way his brace of Navy Colts were carried. Remembering that this particular weapon had at least a 7-8 inch barrel, that they were tucked into a fabric shash up to and including the cylinder, grip butt facing forward...from the historical record, eyewitnesses descibed WBH as crossing his arms in a "x" and pulling the brace up and out of the shash in a swinging motion, without sweeping the muzzle across his own torso. As with anything you want to do...both fast and accurate...repetition is the key. I have tried this manuver and found it difficult and awkward for me...but I can imagine with practice, one could become proficient.

 

[BigG]

RE: Wild Bill

I believe he had holsters made up to mimic the placement similar to the sash. Been a while since I consulted my copy of Triggernometry , which is a pretty good source on the old western lore.

Also, Jeff Bridges did a startlingly good take on Wild Bill imho.

Either of these sources is about as close as you'll get to the truth on these old west legends, who were embelishing their reputations with each retelling to anyone who would listen. I don't know who could unravel the truth from the falsehood. YMMV JMTC Etc.

 

[goon]

I can't speak for carrying a handgun that way but I do have Becker BK7 that I carry that way in a custom made kydex sheath. It is very comfortable that way and it comes out very quickly and naturally. From the theoretical standpoint, it seems to defy logic. From the practical standpoint, it works pretty damn good.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Ive been known to carry my 1911gov. in a cheap nylon hoslter Butt forward. Conceals real well under a t-shirt no grip print and fairly fast with a little practice.

 

[Gunnutz13]

Yea BigG...

Jeff did do a good job as Wild Bill...and that scene with Ellen Barkin as Calamity Jane was pretty hot too.