Omaha Shooting and Mental Illness

[andy28277]

I see a common theme with the VA Tech shooting and the Omaha shooting - young men who are mentally deranged and ilegally possessed firearms.

The Omaha shooter had a felony conviction for drugs and was facing several alcohol related charges - all while he apparently was taking anti-depressants.

Alcohol and drugs are often used to self-medicate depression and other types of mental illness. I have a cousin who is bi-polar and a recovering alcoholic - in AA and sober now for 16 years and on meds that make him a normal, functional person. However, I remember about 20 years ago he had some issues with the law and was jailed.

This is a BIG warning sign - young man with alcohol/drug abuse issues with concurrent depression/mental illness problems.

The VA Tech shooter never should have been able to legally purchase firearms under federal law after a court adjudication of being mentally ill, yet he slipped through the state law cracks.

As for the Omaha shooter, I have to put some blame on the step-father for not properly securing his firearm in a home safe (I'm assuming he did not).

While I don't believe there should be laws requiring the locking up of firearms, you also have to use common sense. The step-father must have known about all the issues with his step-son and he should have locked up the rifle. Heck, I think anyone with normal, healthy teenagers should have firearms in a gun safe because you just never know with teenagers.

This, in my mind, could have been prevented by proper measures by the step-father.

As for what to do - we don't need more laws. What we need is awareness and common sense.

I live alone and keep my firearms in a very secure safe because I don't want my home broken into when I'm away and my firearms used by criminals to harm someone. I also have any easy-access mini pistol safe in my bedroom with a fully loaded G-35 in it ready to go and if I lived in a dangerous area I would carry around the house. These are all safe ways to go about it with kids around the house. Firearms either in a safe or secure on your person.

Like I said - I don't think this should be legislated, but there is no reason to leave a SKS accessable with a depressed, drug addicted and alcoholic teenager in the house. Use some common sense!

Also, as a legal point - anyone know if this kid lived with his step-father? If so, it would have been illegal for him as a convicted felon to live under the same roof as someone who owns firearms, if I understand the law correctly. That might go to a slip by his probation officer if he was on probation.

I don't think you will ever be able to prevent these things with mentally deranged persons who cannot legally possess firearms, but no need to allow them easy access.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

According to MSNBC, the kid did not live with his stepfather. His parents had kicked him out of the house and he was living with another family that took him in (two teen friends of his).

Apparently he showed the firearm to the mother of that family the night before the shooting and she did not think anything of it. She thought it looked too old to work. The same article reports the rifle was stolen from the stepfather.

 

[littlegator]

Quoted in U.S. News and World Report, December 10, 2007 (the issue really was dated this date...):

"I reject the kind of naive, wishful thinking that makes every delinquent a victim of society and every riot a social problem." Nicolas Sarkozy, French President."

+1, but obviously in a vacuum.

 

[Guitargod1985]

December 10, 2007

So are you Doctor Emmit Brown or Marty?

 

[zinj]

News Magazines are generally postdated.

 

[alan]

Something that should surprise nobody, National Public Radio (Public Radio) got it wrong AGAIN, this time regarding their repeated references to SKS Assault Rifle and or the Assault Rifle used by the shooter.

Despite having been corrected numerous times my the writer, likely others too, I wonder as to why they repeat the same "mistake", again and again and again.

 

[Hook686]

Alan I'm surprised. What makes you think they got it wrong ?

 

[chris in va]

Refering to it as an 'assault' rifle.

Frankly I see no problem with the military style semiautos being called 'assault rifles', except they've been demonized by the media and subsequently banned in certain states.

 

[DaveBeal]

The Omaha shooter had a felony conviction for drugs and was facing several alcohol related charges - all while he apparently was taking anti-depressants.

I read that he was depressed. (Don't know whether this was a professional or lay opinion.) I haven't seen that he was on ADs. Where did you hear this?

I definitely agree that the step-dad was irresponsible.

 

[Sniper X]

Item 1: He did the crime in a "gun free zone" which not only proves again, there shouldn't be any "gun free zones" or the owners of said GFZ's should be able to be sued badly because they took away your right to defend yourself by making it a GFZ.

Item 2: the kid should have been watched closer. And because of his mental history, people around him should have been warned to do so.

item 3: the stepfather should have had closer tabs (security) on his firearm.

Item 4: the "liberal media" should NOT be allowed to get away AGAIN calling a sporting firearm a Assault weapon...


God, we live in a quirky sometimes stupid world don't we?

 

[Snapping Twig]

Anyone with a CCW could have stopped him in his tracks after the first shot.

Gun free zones....what a crock of poop!

 

[BridgeWalker]

Folks, I just posted on this topic in another thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=321622

 

[RNB65]

Anyone with a CCW could have stopped him in his tracks after the first shot.

Anyone with a handgun dumb enough to confront a suicidal killer armed with a semi-auto rifle would learn the same fatal lesson that the FBI learned on a certain April morning in 1986.

 

[First Shirt]

Quote:
"Anyone with a handgun dumb enough to confront a suicidal killer armed with a semi-auto rifle would learn the same fatal lesson that the FBI learned on a certain April morning in 1986."

No, not really. It's been done before, with some success.

 

[MudPuppy]

I see cops responding with handguns to all sorts of disturbances. Granted, they've got a bit more training than some, but a handgun beats a cell phone dialing 911 any day of the week.

Interesting fact:"The shooting spree was Nebraska's deadliest since January 1958, when Charles Starkweather killed 10 people in Nebraska and another in Wyoming."

Nothing new under the sun, people have been killing people since there's been people. Senseless, a lot of families and friends hurting for no good reason.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

Anyone with a handgun dumb enough to confront a suicidal killer armed with a semi-auto rifle would learn the same fatal lesson that the FBI learned on a certain April morning in 1986.

I would like to point out a few things with that statement. Suicidal killers want to die and usually off themselves whenever confronted by force. A mentally ill teen is nothing compared to the military trained hardened criminals that the 86 criminals were. They were expecting a shootout, he just wanted to shot some other people before he killed himself to make sure he got attention. I would never bring a pistol to a rifle fight, but I think I could at the very least pin a guy down long enough for a few more people to make it to cover. A decently trained CC holder that knows what people should know also might have been able to stop some bleeding after the shooter offed himself. It might have saved some lives as the EMTs didn't make it on scene for at least six minutes, probably more like nine or ten.

 

[alan]

chris in va Refering to it as an 'assault' rifle.

Frankly I see no problem with the military style semiautos being called 'assault rifles', except they've been demonized by the media and subsequently banned in certain states.

Hook686 Alan I'm surprised. What makes you think they got it wrong ?

-----------------------

Re question posed by Hook686, the following makes me think "they got it wrong". By the way, having heard it 5 times yesterday, NPR did get it wrong, in spades. The SKS, lacking selective fire capability, is not an assault rifle, as NPR so described it, nor is it the "assault rifle" also mentioned..

Re comment from Chris in Va., please reread what you wrote. Having done so, then tells us again what you think. I make particular reference to the following, "except they've been demonized by the media and subsequently banned in certain states." Letting the opposition define the issues, thereby controlling debate is a near certain recopied for defeat, something that to many gun owners seem not to have understood, to this day.

 

[Deanimator]

Anyone with a handgun dumb enough to confront a suicidal killer armed with a semi-auto rifle would learn the same fatal lesson that the FBI learned on a certain April morning in 1986.

I'd rather learn that lesson instead of the lesson that nearly 34,000 naked Jews learned standing in front of a ravine in Ukraine in September 1941.

I'm always fascinated by people who think that passive acceptance of ones own murder and those of others is somehow superior to even futile resistance.

 

[Liko81]

Like I said - I don't think this should be legislated, but there is no reason to leave a SKS accessable with a depressed, drug addicted and alcoholic teenager in the house. Use some common sense!

You cannot legislate common sense. You can only legislate penalties for not using it. Unless there's a penalty for not locking up uncarried firearms, there's no incentive for those who are lazy about firearms to do so.

There is in many cases a duty for civilians to report knowledge of an ongoing crime. Illegal possession of a firearm is a crime, and the mother, despite her current grief, should be held responsible for failing to notify the police that her son illegally posessed a gun. In addition, if the kid was a minor, the parents have legal responsibility for any criminal activity the child commits. Lastly, some states already have lockup laws, and failure to secure a firearm used in a crime can make you criminally liable as accessory before the fact. It's like leaving the keys in your car; that's a crime in D/FW because it encourages theft. The fact that the car was stolen from you is immaterial; you so much as gave it to the thief. All of this stuff is common sense; you cannot force individuals to have it, but you can penalize them for not having it. I think that's good enough in my book.

 

[jfh]

"...Frankly I see no problem with the military style semiautos being called 'assault rifles'...." ​

I see a Big Problem.

First, in virtually any recognized "official" list of firearms typography, assault weapons have a specific definition: they are considered 'a lighter-weight rifle, of intermediate calibre, and capable of automatic / selective fire.'

Deliberate misidentification of firearms, for the purpose of spreading FUD and confusion among the general (non-gun) population has been a tactic of the antigunners since at least 1988--remember Josh Sugarman's comment?

Precision in language is what the law will turn on in with this topic, and the least we can do is expect the media to present information accurately. If we expect them to do so, and we should expect the same of ourselves.

Call semiautomatic / bolt action rifles "utility rifles", "Homeland Defense Rifles," whatever--but ceding the language usage on this topic brought us to the spot gunnies are in today--i.e., the antigun talking points have become the perspective from which the American public perceives the issues, and those talking points must be challenged.

Jim H.

 

[Zundfolge]

Anyone with a handgun dumb enough to confront a suicidal killer armed with a semi-auto rifle would learn the same fatal lesson that the FBI learned on a certain April morning in 1986.

Those FBI agents confronted two drugged up "urban combat veterans" with several firefights and kills under their belts, not a depressed/angry emo kid with a stolen AK.

Anyone with a handgun that would have engaged this kid would have likely saved lives as the kid would be too busy taking cover and/or exchanging fire with someone else to shoot more unarmed "fish in a barrel".

"...Frankly I see no problem with the military style semiautos being called 'assault rifles'...."

If you have no problem with that, then you'll have no problem with calling a car with stripes painted on it a "race car" and restrict it from street driving as well?

 

[Funderb]

Hindsight is always 20-20 my friends.
Why don't we, instead of arguing about it, go make sure
some nuts alcoholic teenager can't get your rifle.
I'm sure anyone who was there with a weapon would have done one of two things, shot back, or run away. But there's nothing currently to be done about what has happened already.

A rifle used to assault people fits the assault rifle bill.
remember, sniper rifle and assault rifle fall under the same catagory as nominalizations. Not real terms as they have been come to be used.

 

[strat81]

A rifle used to assault people fits the assault rifle bill.
remember, sniper rifle and assault rifle fall under the same catagory as nominalizations. Not real terms as they have been come to be used.

So if I drag race a '92 Ford Escort down on Main Street, it's a race car?
Is a Henry lever action an assault rifle if it's used to assault deer?

I've said it before: Ignorance should never trump truth, even if ignorance is part of the modern vernacular.

 

[Funderb]

you missed my point strat.
Try thinking about it.

 

[Hook686]

So if I drag race a '92 Ford Escort down on Main Street, it's a race car?
Is a Henry lever action an assault rifle if it's used to assault deer?

I've said it before: Ignorance should never trump truth, even if ignorance is part of the modern vernacular.

If the Ford is involved in a race down on Main St., I think it more like a racing car.

The Henry Lever Action is refered to as a rifle on the Henry web page. The Winchester and Marlin, in similar models, are referred to as carbines on other web pages.

So is it a carbine, or a rifle ? and Ignorance is not an excuse, since one only needs use common sense.