VaughnT
Member
"hypothetically"
You're working an ATM. Your partner is attending the machine and you are standing at his back, watching the surroundings.
A dozen or more cars pass by. You see a primer-grey, low-rider pickup approaching from the west at a very low rate of speed. As the vehicle approaches, you note that the driver's window is down and the driver is staring hard at you and your partner as his vehicle coasts by. Estimated speed of vehicle is under 5mph.
Moving past your position approximately 100yds (west to east), the driver executes a 180* turn and accerlates through a barren parking lot. When approximately 40yds west of your location, the driver executes another 180* turn and approaches your position, again at a very low speed.
When the vehicle's driver-side window is due south of your position, no more than twenty yards away, the driver comes to a dead stop. At this time, hypothetically, the driver asks, "Is there a problem?"
You respond, "No problems, sir."
Driver, "Then why where you eyeballing me as I went past? There has to be a problem."
Guard, "It's my job to watch people, sir. Please move along."
Driver, upon seeing the guard's hand move to the grip of a fantastic Ted Yost custom 1991, "What's up with the gun? You don't scare me! I'm not afraid of you."
Guard, "I'm not trying to scare you, sir. I'm trying to do my job. Please move on."
Driver, "Or what? What are you going to do?"
Guard, "Sir, please move on or we will have to call County for a cruiser to respond."
Driver, "mumble....mumble.....piece of s#*t....mumble....mumble."
Guard, "Sir, move on NOW!"
Driver, "mumble......mumble."
Vehicle proceeds slowly in an easterly direction approximately 100yd and executes yet another 180* turn, returning to your position.
Your partner is on the radio/phone requesting a cruiser asap. The vehicle turns off of the frontage road into the parking lot of the bank you are servicing. The vehicle stops due east of your position, no more than fifteen yards from you.
Driver, "mumble....mumble....need some money?"
Guard, "Sir, move on now. County is en route and you are about to be in very big trouble. Leave now. Drive away, now."
Driver stares at you for a few minutes and then pulls on to the highway traveling east towards the interstate.
Questions:
While you are licensed in SC with the full power of a sherriff's deputy so long as you are on company/customer property, would you have fealt authorized to execute an arrest/detainment of this person based solely on his odd behavior and his interfering with your duties? Would such an arrest/detainment be worth the hassle?
At what point could you have legally drawn your weapon out of the holster and held it at your side, not pointed at the threat? At was point does the SC brandishing law cease to be?
When the vehicle returned for the third time, would you have been justified in drawing your weapon and covering the vehicle/driver?
Was deadly force justified even though you didn't see a pistol/shotgun/nuclear device in the driver's hand? Both guardsmen were in the open, exposed to fire or a ram attempt.
Where does the threat begin? Is it when the driver returns the second time to verbally challenge the guard? At this point, can the guard draw his weapon? If you cannot see the driver clearly, small window/dark interior, how can you see if he has a weapon or not? Can you hedge your bet legally by holding your weapon in hand but pointed in a safe direction? In this instance, I don't think clearing leather would have helped the situation, but.....
The end of the parking lot where the vehicle executed two turnarounds, there are two exits the driver could have used to gain access either to the highway or a secondary road that leads into a bunch of restaruants and the highway. There was no need to turn the vehicle around and return to the ATM location.
Given this fact, a fact known by the guardsmen, would an elevated risk assessment be warranted? Could lethal force be justified when the driver of the vehicle made that turn? A moving vehicle if a far more powerful weapon than a pistol and the driver has already exhibited a lack of clear thinking.....was this a potential danger that didn't materialize?
Notes:
Verbal Judo is a skill you cannot have too much of.
Confidence is a must. You must know what your are going to say and say it with strength. There cannot be any poor delivery. You must believe in your position, that you are in the right.
Weaponskill is critical. This is not because you might have to shoot someone under less-than-optimal conditions, but because I firmly believe that confidence carries through in your body language. If you don't believe you can beat him to the draw or hit him at whatever range, that doubt will come through in how you act verbally and physically. This goes to confidence.
Hypothetically, scary as hell and glad nobody's dead. Remember to plan ahead to keep your head.
You're working an ATM. Your partner is attending the machine and you are standing at his back, watching the surroundings.
A dozen or more cars pass by. You see a primer-grey, low-rider pickup approaching from the west at a very low rate of speed. As the vehicle approaches, you note that the driver's window is down and the driver is staring hard at you and your partner as his vehicle coasts by. Estimated speed of vehicle is under 5mph.
Moving past your position approximately 100yds (west to east), the driver executes a 180* turn and accerlates through a barren parking lot. When approximately 40yds west of your location, the driver executes another 180* turn and approaches your position, again at a very low speed.
When the vehicle's driver-side window is due south of your position, no more than twenty yards away, the driver comes to a dead stop. At this time, hypothetically, the driver asks, "Is there a problem?"
You respond, "No problems, sir."
Driver, "Then why where you eyeballing me as I went past? There has to be a problem."
Guard, "It's my job to watch people, sir. Please move along."
Driver, upon seeing the guard's hand move to the grip of a fantastic Ted Yost custom 1991, "What's up with the gun? You don't scare me! I'm not afraid of you."
Guard, "I'm not trying to scare you, sir. I'm trying to do my job. Please move on."
Driver, "Or what? What are you going to do?"
Guard, "Sir, please move on or we will have to call County for a cruiser to respond."
Driver, "mumble....mumble.....piece of s#*t....mumble....mumble."
Guard, "Sir, move on NOW!"
Driver, "mumble......mumble."
Vehicle proceeds slowly in an easterly direction approximately 100yd and executes yet another 180* turn, returning to your position.
Your partner is on the radio/phone requesting a cruiser asap. The vehicle turns off of the frontage road into the parking lot of the bank you are servicing. The vehicle stops due east of your position, no more than fifteen yards from you.
Driver, "mumble....mumble....need some money?"
Guard, "Sir, move on now. County is en route and you are about to be in very big trouble. Leave now. Drive away, now."
Driver stares at you for a few minutes and then pulls on to the highway traveling east towards the interstate.
Questions:
While you are licensed in SC with the full power of a sherriff's deputy so long as you are on company/customer property, would you have fealt authorized to execute an arrest/detainment of this person based solely on his odd behavior and his interfering with your duties? Would such an arrest/detainment be worth the hassle?
At what point could you have legally drawn your weapon out of the holster and held it at your side, not pointed at the threat? At was point does the SC brandishing law cease to be?
When the vehicle returned for the third time, would you have been justified in drawing your weapon and covering the vehicle/driver?
Was deadly force justified even though you didn't see a pistol/shotgun/nuclear device in the driver's hand? Both guardsmen were in the open, exposed to fire or a ram attempt.
Where does the threat begin? Is it when the driver returns the second time to verbally challenge the guard? At this point, can the guard draw his weapon? If you cannot see the driver clearly, small window/dark interior, how can you see if he has a weapon or not? Can you hedge your bet legally by holding your weapon in hand but pointed in a safe direction? In this instance, I don't think clearing leather would have helped the situation, but.....
The end of the parking lot where the vehicle executed two turnarounds, there are two exits the driver could have used to gain access either to the highway or a secondary road that leads into a bunch of restaruants and the highway. There was no need to turn the vehicle around and return to the ATM location.
Given this fact, a fact known by the guardsmen, would an elevated risk assessment be warranted? Could lethal force be justified when the driver of the vehicle made that turn? A moving vehicle if a far more powerful weapon than a pistol and the driver has already exhibited a lack of clear thinking.....was this a potential danger that didn't materialize?
Notes:
Verbal Judo is a skill you cannot have too much of.
Confidence is a must. You must know what your are going to say and say it with strength. There cannot be any poor delivery. You must believe in your position, that you are in the right.
Weaponskill is critical. This is not because you might have to shoot someone under less-than-optimal conditions, but because I firmly believe that confidence carries through in your body language. If you don't believe you can beat him to the draw or hit him at whatever range, that doubt will come through in how you act verbally and physically. This goes to confidence.
Hypothetically, scary as hell and glad nobody's dead. Remember to plan ahead to keep your head.