on eating lead...

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Col. Harrumph

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I know, I know, the likelihood that I'll even see a deer in the New England woods this fall is almost nil... but still....

Let's suppose I do get a shot. Yum! ...except for that bit about lead fragments. So even though I don't live in California, I've decided to investigate lead-free hunting bullets. Turns out the bullet makers have been anticipating things. For instance, there's: https://www.hornady.com/bullets/gmx#!/

Who has fished this stream before me? What's been your experience?
 
You already have lead inside you. You have to ingest or absorb a fairly large amount of lead over a long period of time for it to become toxic. I just choose not to shoot my deer or pigs in the arse or spine. And if I do, I don't eat that part because like drunkenpoacher said, its bloodshot.
 
Biting down on a piece of lead shot, or on a lead bullet fragment can be quite painful. I'd have to guess biting down on a piece of steel or bismuth shot, or copper bullet fragment would be even more painful.:D
Thousands, maybe millions, of game animals get killed every year with lead bullets and shot and nobody dies of lead poisoning from eating them.
Not only that, but game animals being killed with lead bullets and lead shot has been going on for hundreds of years.
Don't repeat the lead fragment hysteria, please.
I agree - please!
 
If lead shot did you any harm, other than dental, I'd be mad as a hatter. The number of times I bit into shot eating grouse and woodcock as a kid, I thought it was a spice. My wife the same thing with pheasant.

The area where the bullet wound channel is will be bloodshot and ugly. Don't eat that part. Otherwise you'll be fine.

Happy hunting.
 
Responding to you all (and I appreciate that people have been eating game for eons)... I thought this site pretty interesting: http://dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/ammo/lead.html

There's a video at the link that's worth watching. Xray pics show lead fragments scattered throughout an animal's carcass; in some cases more than a foot away from the bullet's path. This is a direct challenge to those who say to just cut away the wound channel.

So, there's a good chance you've swallowed small lead fragments, and maybe you're OK with that.
 
Thousands, maybe millions, of game animals get killed every year with lead bullets and shot and nobody dies of lead poisoning from eating them.

I was taught the following by a chemist from the FDA:

People don't die from eating lead particles, (as drunkenpoacher points out.)

People are most commonly harmed by lead from ingesting lead oxide. Babies who got poisoned from eating lead paint, were harmed because the agent used to produce the white in the white paint, was lead oxide. Women in the past centuries, who had skin damage from their white makeup... were damaged because lead oxide was used to make the face cream white. (Clowns in the 19th century had the same problem.) Romans who heated their wine in vessels lined with lead, sped up the process where the oxide that formed on the containers when the containers were empty, was released when the liquid wine (red and acidic) was added, and the process was accelerated when heat was applied. This is also the reason one should not use antique pewter for drinking vessels (The water in Rome is hard, and the lead piping that brought water into the city quickly formed a layer of scale that sealed off lead from the incoming, cold water.) The Franklin Arctic Expedition where all hands were lost seems to be from the use of lead solder on the canned food..., the cans were made, stored until filled thus oxide probably formed, then they were filled with food and sealed and heated for the canning process, and stored for a very long time, THEN when eaten the men simply heated the cans...., o_O Old, outdated, indoor target ranges without modern ventilation don't poison the shooters from breathing in fresh lead dust from the bullets impacting the backstop..., the impact of the projectiles causes oxidized flakes of old dust to be kicked up into the air, and that is what harms the people who breathe it..., if they breathe a lot of it over time. Cops that used such ranges for a few hours, four times a year didn't get poisoned, the guy who ran the range every day got poisoned. Lead fumes from very hot lead (like casting bullets, or toy soldiers, or working with real pewter) is another very specific instance where it's easier for the lead to get into the body. It's much easier to get the lead into the water or into blood which is mostly water via lead oxide.

So why do birds get sick and/or die? Well they have a gizzard while we don't, so when you're talking waterfowl, they ingest little stones from the bottom of ponds, lakes, streams, rivers to help their gizzard grind up grains they have eaten. Those pieces of lead shot, launched by hunters in the past came down into the water, oxidized in the water, and then are picked up by the birds like sand and fine pebbles, and held for a long time in the gizzard since the birds don't know it's shot and not fine pebbles or sand. Plenty of time for the oxide to transfer, AND the birds pass it so they are constantly replacing the little rocks so if oxidized lead shot is present, they are constantly taking in new sources of lead oxide. What about raptors? Back in the days of leaded gasoline, lead pollution in the atmosphere was carried by rain into the streams, so into the fish or aquatic birds, and into the raptors that ate them, or consumed some of the water. Plus the occasional incident of leaded waste water from industry, and the runoff from the use of DDT.... Carrion eaters like condors have a very reduced risk of ingesting oxidized lead shot from a lost game animal, so their elevated lead levels are probably from the flesh of some of the animals they have eaten, which might be fish or birds, OR might be mammals that have high lead levels from a non-hunting source. Doesn't matter to the anti-hunters in California though.

Easier to blame the projectiles.

LD
 
I tend to agree that the issue of lead ingestion is overblown. It's more of a problem in waterfowl because ducks will eat lead pellets which are then trapped in the gizzard. If you've ever cleaned a duck or goose and kept the gizzard (yum!), you'll have found a small pile of tiny bits of gravel held in it which 'grind' food to make it easier for the bird to digest. The fact that this lead is held in the gizzard allows it to work over time to possibly poison the bird. I think (and this is just me talking, I have no evidence) that mammals tend to pass bits of lead through their bodies rather quickly so that any lead is eliminated before it can do major harm.

I am in agreement with earlier comments that any meat near the path of a bullet will be damaged and discarded. I take the approach that if the meat looks like something my wife or Mother wouldn't like, I don't keep it. I started to write Mother-in-Law instead of Mother, but my MIL (may she rest in peace) was a tough and resourceful woman of German heritage who grew up on a farm during the depression and would have put a lot folks, even on this forum, to shame when it came to avoiding wasteful practices.

Still, these days I'd rather waste a little more meat than eat lead.
 
I wouldn't let concerns about digesting lead influence my decision. But the solid copper bullets work well if used properly and a lot of people find they work better. For a couple of reasons they penetrate much better than conventional bullets so heavier bullets aren't necessary. This means that many times a smaller gun shooting copper is just as effective as a larger gun shooting lead. They need more speed in order to expand than conventional bullets. Generally speaking it is better to drop down to a lighter than normal bullet to pick up more speed. Even the lightest bullets in each caliber give very good penetration and more speed means better expansion. They work great on game normally thought of as being too large for caliber, but the downside is reduced performance at longer ranges where bullet speed is too slow.

You'll hear some complaints about poor expansion at times. This can usually be traced back to someone shooting a bullet that is too heavy and not fast enough.
 
I'll be honest and say its been a few years since I actually went hunting. Really just don't have the time any more. That said, I CCW for self-defense just in case. I figure I might as well apply that same philosophy to what ammunition I use when I do hunt. If I were to go hunting this year I would use lead free ammunition just in case. Thats not to say that I think the lead ammunition would poison me though. I just think the few extra dollars per box is worth being certain that I don't have to wonder about it.
 
Responding to you all (and I appreciate that people have been eating game for eons)... I thought this site pretty interesting: http://dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/ammo/lead.html

There's a video at the link that's worth watching. Xray pics show lead fragments scattered throughout an animal's carcass; in some cases more than a foot away from the bullet's path. This is a direct challenge to those who say to just cut away the wound channel.

So, there's a good chance you've swallowed small lead fragments, and maybe you're OK with that.

What an X-ray doesn't reveal is the telltale bloodshot meat around the bullet fragments which are a bright purple indicator for the hunter. As you're butchering, you'll be able to follow the path of the fragments - that's why we have the term "bloodshot." The "wound channel" is the entirety of the path of the projectile, you'll see tissue damage anywhere the fragments travel.

It's really not that difficult, but I can appreciate if someone like you who has never done it before might get scared by BS in the media. You WILL be able to see where the bullet fragments travel - harvest your meat around that path and you'll be fine. What we have here is a virgin refuting the claims of the experienced. Usually what you'll see are jacket fragments doing the most traveling, the lead core, if it separates, stays relatively in one piece, and for all of it, if you butcher your way through the entire wound cavity, you'll find it rather easy to avoid any bullet fragments. It's really not that complicated.
 
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What an X-ray doesn't reveal is the telltale bloodshot meat around the bullet fragments which are a bright purple indicator for the hunter. As you're butchering, you'll be able to follow the path of the fragments - that's why we have the term "bloodshot." The "wound channel" is the entirety of the path of the projectile, you'll see tissue damage anywhere the fragments travel.

It's really not that difficult, but I can appreciate if someone like you who has never done it before might get scared by BS in the media. You WILL be able to see where the bullet fragments travel - harvest your meat around that path and you'll be fine. What we have here is a virgin refuting the claims of the experienced. Usually what you'll see are jacket fragments doing the most traveling, the lead core, if it separates, stays relatively in one piece, and for all of it, if you butcher your way through the entire wound cavity, you'll find it rather easy to avoid any bullet fragments. It's really not that complicated.
And if you shoot em where you're supposed to there will be little or no meat damaged.
 
There are plenty of bonded lead bullets on the market that retain 90% + weight. I eat only game meat. People tell me I'm crazier than a box of frogs, but i don't think it can be blamed on lead poisoning. I'm not going to be using lead free bullets as research in Sweden has shown that they are not as effective as lead bullets.
 
Corneyforney is against lead projectiles not because of the danger to humans, but to the danger to carrion eaters with gizzards, like their prized condor. Here in Wisconsin, the fear is for Bald Eagles. While most of us think of Eagles as predators, most of them eat a lot of carrion in the winter. Around here the majority of carrion is dead deer, either hit by vehicles or shot and not retrieved by hunters. There's also the gut piles and boned out carcasses thrown out from deer that were retrieved and butchered. This is where the Eagles ingest the lead. It has been shown that up to 25% of the eagle population in Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin, has concentrations of lead, high enough to be toxic. When a eagle is found dead in those states, odds are 50/50 it died from lead poisoning. This is why Cali bans lead and why many other states are considering requiring the use of non-lead projectiles(bullets). It ain't about us..........o_O
 
You already have lead inside you. You have to ingest or absorb a fairly large amount of lead over a long period of time for it to become toxic.
Exactly. My brother has lead fragments in his chest and arm from being shot twice. Been in there for about 10 years now. Hes doing just fine.
 
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