On handguns and bears

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KodiakBeer

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http://www.adn.com/2010/06/22/1334988/bear-mauls-geologist-near-rainy.html


Bear mauls geologist near Rainy Pass Lodge

(06/22/10 06:58:10)

A geologist who was mauled by a bear near Rainy Pass Lodge is reported in fair condition at Providence Alaska Medical Center in Anchorage.

The Anchorage Daily News reports 54-year-old Bob Miller was attacked Sunday afternoon as he was walking to a helicopter picking up a Millrock Exploration survey crew. The lodge is 125 air miles northwest of Anchorage in the Alaska Range.

Lodge owner Steve Perrins helped provide first aid.

"He stayed conscious with us the whole time, was coherent, even had a sense of humor a couple times, which is pretty tough to do because he was in rough shape," Perrins said. "It was good, it was the perfect scenario for something like that to stabilize someone until we could get him in the medevac."

Tony Kavalok with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game says Miller tried to defend himself.

"He was charged by the bear - he had a .357 Magnum revolver, fired at the bear," Kavalok said.

It's unknown if the bear was hit. Perrins and others couldn't find it Monday.

"There had been a sow and yearling cub spotted by one of the crew members," said Kavalok.
 
Apparently wasn't Henry Bowman.
I would definitely be packing something in .454 up in bear country, or a shotgun with slugs if a long gun was permissible. That and a lot of situational awareness, especially with cubs spotted in the area.
 
My opinion (and it's just that since details are sparse) is that a bigger handgun would have made little difference. He either missed, or shot the bear in a non-vital (non-CNS) spot.

You have to hit them in the face or the odds are you're going down.
 
A 357 magnum factory load 158 grain lead cast from remington has a velocity of 1235FPS it also penetrates 27.5 inches of ballistics jell. so this whole 357 mag isnt worth a poop is BS 27.5 inches from a MODERATE FACTORY LOAD IS AMAZING, now let me go out and load my 158 grain leadcast and some H-110 powder I have loads that are aproching over 1600 fps with 900 foot pounds. this is more than enough to crack a grizzs skull and go through, so this whole talk of 357 mag not being worth a .... is total BS, Just because you went out and bought your 12 guage or your 460 supperduty magnum ultra pistol, dosnt mean you have to then consider everything else not practical. the 357 magnum was one of the most powerful cartridges for years. so stop dissing it and these bear threads are just an excuse for flame wars.
 
A 357 magnum factory load 158 grain lead cast from remington has a velocity of 1235FPS it also penetrates 27.5 inches of ballistics jell... yadda, yadda yadda ... so stop dissing it and these bear threads are just an excuse for flame wars.
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The only flamer in these threads seem to be you.

The point is not the ballistics as much as it's hitting an object the size of a softball (a bears brain) approaching at 40 mph while bounding up and down. Any good handgunner should be able to drill a softball sitting on a fence post at 20 yards. However, that's not the situation in a bear attack.

To hit a rapidly moving object (whether a rabbit or a bears brain), a shotgun is the better choice. This may be all theoretical for you down there 500 miles from the nearest grizzly, but it's a very common occurrence here through much of the year.
 
you knew making this thread would open a can of worms lol, and if i recall your thread is "on handguns and bears" not shotgun vs bear ;)
 
you knew making this thread would open a can of worms lol, and if i recall your thread is "on handguns and bears" not shotgun vs bear
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Is there a shotgun in the linked story? There's no can of worms to be opened here, unless a flamer shows up. The guy used a handgun to stop a bear and it failed. Period. If you have a story about a shotgun with heavy buck or slugs failing to stop a bear, then post it.
 
the 357 magnum was one of the most powerful cartridges for years. so stop dissing it and these bear threads are just an excuse for flame wars
Click to expand...

1+ I like this. If he had a 357 it was probly 5-6 shot revolver. He could have missed and paniced, nothing talks about the gun or if the bear was hit. If a bear if charging you it would be hard to hit it. 5 or 6 shots you run out quick... I would have been packing something with 10+ magazine cap. Or a .44 mag
 
OK, can you guys hit a bouncing softball approaching at 40 mph with your handguns?

If not, then it's a poor choice.
 
yeah .357 against a bear will most likely just make it angrier. men have bigger brains. :D
 
ROFL @ArmedBear.... Did you make that?? I about died laughing.... The bear is like angry and blue LOL... with duel weilding!

What program if you did make it?
 
That's an awesome picture!
I don't know if I could hit a 40mph bounding softball with a handgun, especially with a blast of adrenaline pumping through the veins.

A bear's skull is not the place to aim for when being charged as some might think.
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I was always told shoot/break the front shoulders to stop the charge (with something pretty hard hitting) since it'll be on you before you know it.
 
.357 magnum will not have enough power to penetrate or do any damage to a bear intent on killing you. Maybe if you held it up to his eye ball or under his throat and blew out his neck vein while he was mawling you.
 
KodiakBeer, since you are an Alaskan I respect your opinion and knowledge in this subject matter. However, after reading your initial post and subsequent follow-ups I'm not sure what your point is. I guess it's about handguns being a lousy option for SD in bear country. So why not just post the story by itself? Why invite others comments?

Your initial post linked an article on a failure to stop with handgun and your one word addendum "Comments?" When others commented you take them to task for their comments. You brought up shotguns being more appropriate and when another member followed up on your shotgun reference you chastize him for being off-topic since your article was about handguns, and then challenge him to produce articles on shotguns stopping bears...??? So what exactly is your whole point? Do you want others comments or only comments that agree with your point of view?
 
My opinion (and it's just that since details are sparse) is that a bigger handgun would have made little difference. He either missed, or shot the bear in a non-vital (non-CNS) spot.
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http://www.outdoorlife.com/node/45538:

FIGHTING BACK

The biologists darted the grizzly from the helicopter, then landed. Approaching the bear to take blood samples, they sensed something wasn't right. The bear moved, and moved again. Suddenly, from just 19 feet away, the bear charged the two researchers.

One biologist pulled a .44 and fired four shots at the bear, which quickly beelined for the brush. The pair ran for the safety of the helicopter cab. From the air, they noticed the bear still wandering around, so they darted it again. Upon examining the bear, they found that even at close range not a single bullet had hit the bear.
 
I guess we'll have to wait to find out A) if he hit the bear B)if the shot hit or repelled the bear 3) or if the bear laughed and mauled him for shooting at the bear ineffectively. Then there is the camp that advocates not shooting a bear UNTIL mauled, and then only with a nearby rifle of sufficient power and bore, or a suitable shotgun with slugs.:rolleyes::D
 
A bear's skull is not the place to aim for when being charged as some might think.
Click to expand...

The tip of nose is the aiming point. Nothing behind there but some sinus cavities and a thin shell of bone in front of the brain.
 
However, after reading your initial post and subsequent follow-ups I'm not sure what your point is. I guess it's about handguns being a lousy option for SD in bear country. So why not just post the story by itself? Why invite others comments?
Click to expand...

It's kind of an ongoing story over a number of threads. Bear maulings/attacks are pretty common here and average perhaps one a week at some times of year. And then we get these threads where somebody thinks their handgun is a the best choice to carry on their upcoming Alaska trip.

On one level I find it amusing, but on another level it's deadly serious. Most people would be best served by a can of pepper spray, with a shotgun as back-up.
 
Some times a well placed shot with a .357 won't stop an enraged man, so how in the world could it be counted on to stop a 500 pound meat eating 4 legged carnivore with its' mind set on damaging a GEOLIGIST. It didn't say the fellow was a grand master revolver champion. The guy was probably like everone else that works for a living in the backcountry, and had that revolver strapped on his hip for peace of mind and was in the same mind set as most thinking IT COULDN'T HAPPEN TO ME.

I don't know about others, but if I had an CLOSE ENCOUNTER of the FANGED KIND, I would wager to bet I couldn't hit the bear on the head with A BASS FIDDLE when we were nose to nose,and I shoot quite a bit, and most reading this post would fare the same.

Awareness of your situation is the best defense against this type of attack, and being armed with and trained with the firearm or bear deterrent of choice. You are putting yourself in jeopardy when you enter this type scenario and you better be darn sure you can walk the walk.
 
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