one man's reloading economics

[Toprudder]

I don't think I want a turret press. Here's why. I decap prior to tumbling and a turret doesn't help with that.

I got rid of my Lee Challenger press, and bought a Lee Classic Turret instead. One of the major reasons was so I could use it to decap before tumbling. The LCT handles the spent primers far superior to many other presses, IMHO. I decap ALL my brass, right after I get back from the range. I would not be surprised if I have decapped 50k pieces on that press.

My Dad ran a Jr. Rifle Club for about 20 years. The competition teams he developed were quite successful, numerous multi-state individual and team champions, college scholarship winners, an appointment to West Point. I can go on and on. I have 3 older sisters and two younger brothers, all can and do shoot still to this day. One of my brothers has been to Camp Perry about 25 times and had a full NCAA 4 year college ticket.

When I think back on my days as a kid there was a time when on Friday evenings a bunch of older (and really cool) kids would show up at our house and get into our car and go shooting while I watched them leave from my bedroom window, in my PJs. That was just the way it was. Then on May 6, 1967 (in 3 days it will be 51 years ago) things changed. The cool kids came over a little bit earlier than usual, they watched me blow out the candles on my birthday cake, ate some of it then all cheered when my Dad made the announcement, "Tom, get into the car, lets go shooting!" It was my 9th birthday and it happened to be on a Friday. My Mom told me years later that my brother who was 15 months younger than me, cried and cried that night, he wanted to go too! My Dad actually kept me home later than he wanted knowing my brother would be unhappy so 3 months later, on his 8th birthday, he joined us every Friday night. The whole thing (shooting rifles) was to us, normal.

Over the years I have accumulated a lot of stuff and had a lot of fun. I have 10s of 1000s of dollars worth of inventory. As a kid there was never a time when you needed something shooting related where you went to the local store and it was sitting on the shelf. Those who compete learn early on that the tackle we use is specialized, has to be ordered and cost a ton of money. The Leslie Edelman catalog was a permanent fixture on our living room lamp table.

So when I decided to finally get busy and start handloading it took me about 3 seconds to decide that I wanted both quality and speed and that translates into money. I did not put everything I have today on my bench the first week and I have made a few purchase mistakes. But I find myself on the firing line at least 2 times/week, dry fire the rest of the days and if I were to calculate the cost of what is in my main handgun range bag, what I drag to the range normally, the cost would be +/- $5K so an extra 1 or 2 hundred dollars isn't going to change the course of my life that much. Right now I belong to 4 private gun clubs! It's in the genes and the blood so I have learned to deal with it. I'm to the point in my life where I shoot strictly for fun, I compete all the time but my eyesight isn't good so I'm a middle of the pack shooter but it's what I do.

Thanks so much for sharing that! One of the best reads I've had in a while.

I’ve said it before, but that LCT press is an excellent press to start with for the money. Sure it’s not a progressive but if you’re not cranking out large amounts of ammo it’ll work well and allow you to work up to some decent amount while deciding if a progressive is a good upgrade.

I absolutely agree with you! I actually started with a progressive (Dillon 550) and don't regret it, but I only load my high-volume semi-auto rounds on it (380, 9, 40, 45acp, and just recently added 223). But all my other ammo - rifle and revolver - are done on the LCT. And I do all my decapping on it as well. I use the LCT far more than I do my Dillon. I think I have 15 turrets for it now. If I could only have one press, it would be the LCT.

Most of the time, I use the LCT without the auto-index. Occasionally I will use the auto-index to crank out some 357mag in larger batches (100 or more).

Reloading is therapeutic to me, and I don't look at it for the cost savings (I gave up on that notion a long time ago). It is a hobby, as others have stated.

My first hobby was shooting. Then I got into reloading, and that became my hobby. Then I started wet tumbling, and making dirty brass shiny again became my hobby - shooting and reloading are just means to that end. I spend half my time at the range bending over and picking up brass - that is how I get my exercise. I pick up everything, even calibers I don't have a gun for. When I reach a critical mass for a given caliber, I go out and buy a gun, dies, etc for it.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

Another way of looking at reloading is that it's like growing your own food and gives you a sense of independence.

Plus, it's a "green" hobby. I mean, reloading is just "Re-use/Recycle" for guns...

 

[TheDomFather]

I just got into reloading "to save money." Here's what I've spent and how I might do it differently:

Expenses irrespective of "single-stage," "turret," or "progressive," and what color it is:

tumbler with stainless media 259.99
media separator 7.99
case blocks (4) 35.96
case prep center 120.71
trimmer 8.09
press stand (or workbench) 108.99
bin rack 10.79
chronograph 101.61
one set of dies 46.49
subtotal 700.62

notes: Some of these items may be unnecessary, some may already be possessed. For me, I already had a tripod and head for the chronograph. Consider that these expenses could be more than 2/3rds the total expense. Another expense unaccounted for is the shed or garage workspace.

powder measure 59.91
powder measure stand 35.91
press 122.5
die rack 10.79
die lock rings 25.98
hand priming tool 59.99
subtotal 315.08

notes: Most of the equipment is LEE, with some RCBS. I went with a single-stage press, a separate powder measure, and hand-priming tool. That's the way I like to work. It can be done for less, but the small savings from say priming on the press won't make a difference in the big picture. Stepping up to a Dillon progressive press could increase the expense in this latter category considerably, without reducing the former category.

Reloading a cartridge where factory ammo costs $0.29 per round, primer, powder and bullets are costing $0.16 - $0.20 (depending on bullet and powder choice). If I load the most economical of choices among my preferences at $0.16 per round, I'll break-even after some 8000 rounds, which will probably be less than a year.

"I could save even more if I bought bullet casting equipment." I decided not to and I load jacketed or plated bullets only for health reasons.

It makes sense to account for the expense of labor to reload. I think most reloaders enjoy it, but we all consider how much time we're willing to spend on any part of it. Who wants to clean 1000 primer pockets by hand? We buy equipment to save labor costs, trading money for time. Dillon suggests various models of their presses will load 400-1000 rounds per hour. I could be done with my production needs for a year after only a day of reloading, but others shoot a lot more than I do and producing tens of thousands of rounds per year would take too long on a single-stage. At that volume, break-even and savings would happen sooner too, even with higher capital expenditures.

I figured out what I need to do is buy a gun that will shoot more expensive ammo, so I can save more reloading.

Shoot rifle cartridges and the savings will pile up faster. I am building match grade .308 win and 6.5 creedmoor 63 cents per round counting 10 cents per round for brass that I bought new but will fire many times. Purchasing match grade ammo is $22-$30 per box of 20 rounds. (Federal or Hornady) I am making it for ~$12 per 20, I usually shoot at least 100 rounds at the range. (last weekend closer to 200) thats $120 in savings per range trip and my reloads are better than factory match ammo!

 

[mdi]

After reading some of the above posts, I'm very happy I gave up comparing costs and counting pennies 40 years ago...

 

[whatnickname]

Saving money by reloading? Nothing but a myth! The fact of the matter is that you will shoot more so from the prospective of money outlay, you will probably spend more money but you will get to shoot more rounds. I reload because I enjoy it! I can make a better bullet than I can buy and I can alter load specs to get the best accuracy out of my rifles. Nothing is more satisfying to me than dropping a nice deer or antelope with a round that I made. The last antelope I killed as taken at a shade over 600 yards with a round I made up for one of my 270s. I enjoy the shooting sports and everything that goes along with the shooting sports which includes reloading. I've been making ammunition for 50 years now.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

IF you'e talking pistol brass, cleaning is not necessary unless youre dealing with muddied up range pick ups. Charles Petty wrote about this. I've never had an issue with not cleaning my own pistol brass. Yet another way to save on your initial setup.

I've heard it's not necessary, but I don't see how rising it off, or better yet, soaking it for a bit in soapy water, then rising is a bad thing as long as you make sure it properly dries. To me it ensures that dirt and any other crud is cleaned out. So while not necessary I think "cleaning" is a good thing. Now, I will 100% making the outside of the brass look nice and shiny isn't necessary.

 

[oldcoot]

Been reloading fer about 60 years bought most of my stuff used at yard sales and gun shows, when gun shows were good not like now days. don't know how much money I have spent over the years or how much I have saved, but at the cost of ammo today I sure am glad I got my reloading stuff. I used to stock pile powder, primers, slugs but a couple of years ago when everything went sky high I STOPED BUYING and am using out of my stock pile, I'm 80 years old so I don't think I will have to pay those robbers their HIGH PRICES. P.S I ALSO CAST all my pistol bullets and have enough metal to last me fer the rest of my life.

 

[sparkyv]

I've heard it's not necessary, but I don't see how rising it off, or better yet, soaking it for a bit in soapy water, then rising is a bad thing as long as you make sure it properly dries. To me it ensures that dirt and any other crud is cleaned out. So while not necessary I think "cleaning" is a good thing. Now, I will 100% making the outside of the brass look nice and shiny isn't necessary.

Well, Lee's Modern Reloading says that excessively clean pistol brass may require lubrication. The dirt, grime, soot, oils, oxides, etc. actually keep the case from galling the carbide in the sizing die. But you can be sure that cleaning will not damage very hard carbide dies. This suggests that sizing may actually go a little easier on uncleaned cases. Still, shiny...so pretty!

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Well, Lee's Modern Reloading says that excessively clean pistol brass may require lubrication. The dirt, grime, soot, oils, oxides, etc. actually keep the case from galling the carbide in the sizing die. But you can be sure that cleaning will not damage very hard carbide dies. This suggests that sizing may actually go a little easier on uncleaned cases. Still, shiny...so pretty!

I don’t recall seeing that in Lee’s book. I’ll have to go check that out as it’ll be neat to see.

 

[Hondo 60]

if you're like me and others here. you've taken at least one time to add up how much ammo you have to shoot before you "break even"

That's 1 thing I've never done.
I'm afraid to

I went thru 3 Lee presses and a bunch of other reloading equipment before I found out they didn't work well for me.

 

[sparkyv]

I don’t recall seeing that in Lee’s book. I’ll have to go check that out as it’ll be neat to see.

2nd Ed., Ch. 4 in section on Case Sizing.

 

[cfullgraf]

The reloaded cost per round will always cost less than factory ammunition. What you do with the savings is up to you. Some shoot more rounds, some go out for a nice dinner with their significant other.

Besides, what I reload is tailored for my firearms and cannot be purchased.

Since reloading is a hobby, the capital cost of the equipment is irrelevant. I doubt golfers or tennis players figure in the cost of their equipment each time they play their game.

I don't buy surplus ammunition. It is surplus for a reason. Maybe not a bad reason, but surplus just the same. Well, I did buy a bunch of surplus HXP (Greek) 30-06 ammunition once. HXP is quality military ammunition and cases. The cost per round was less than the cost per case of factory, new empty cases and I got to "unload" it in the process.

If you get your shorts in a wad over the time spent reloading, then reloading is probably not for you.

 

[wrench459]

When I reload it's like my own little world.
My other half knows to leave me alone for a few hours.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

The reloaded cost per round will always cost less than factory ammunition.

That’s not exactly true.
For instance if I load 223, I can get high end match bullets, new brass, expensive powder and primers. If I buy them at full retail and in small lots I can easily have them cost More than inexpensive factory. But it’s not a fair comparison. That said, it’s still a case that negates “always”

 

[cfullgraf]

That’s not exactly true.
For instance if I load 223, I can get high end match bullets, new brass, expensive powder and primers. If I buy them at full retail and in small lots I can easily have them cost More than inexpensive factory. But it’s not a fair comparison. That said, it’s still a case that negates “always”

It's a stretch.

I would not load high end components to be used for blasting ammunition. Intended use also has to be part of the equation.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

It's a stretch.

I would not load high end components to be used for blasting ammunition. Intended use also has to be part of the equation.

I agree but he said hand loads are ALWAYS cheaper. I was pointing out one example where they’re not. That said, I think we can agree that if one shops wisely, and uses good but not insanely expensive components better ammo can be made for the same or less.

Also for those stocking up on components, the skill of reloading will allow us to shoot when ammo gets scarce and expensive

 

[Texas1880]

My take is this:
9mm 2.8cpr primer, 1.8 cpr powder, 3 cpr case, and 10 cpr bullet. Comes out to 17.5 cpr. Now I use a true jacketed hollow point Zero bullet. I like it that way, accuracy, no leading, no lead anywhere as I have small boys. Of course this cost will go down as I collect cases and reuse more.

So I’m shooting a cartridge that would cost well into the high 20s at a minimum. Sure, sgammo has 9mm brass case FMJ all day for 19cpr delivered, and you can get deals better than that delivered sometimes.

So when I just look at 9mm, I’m only saving 1.5 cpr on average at WORST. But I’m shooting a much better cartridge than factory FMJ, for much cheaper. And as I reuse cases, that savings goes to 4.5 cpr.

That’s how I justify 9mm and the costs I put into it. If I just counted the 1.5 cpr I’m saving, it would take 20+years to break even on the cost of the press at 3000 rounds a year. Now a lot of guys cast, or use coated lead, and that brings your cost down even more. It all depends on your time vs money budget.

Having said all that, I load 40 S&W for the same as 9mm, and save 6.5 cpr over FMJ ammo. But again, the cheapest JHP is 30 cpr, so that’s 13 cpr saving.

And I shoot only jacketed and plated to minimize lead exposure.

Now 357 and 38 is where I save bigly. At least half the cost of the cheapest commercial round. And I’m using an XTP with a nickel case for 357, basically a hornady custom commercial found that would cost quadruple what I load it for.

Bottom line is I shoot 9k or so a year. It will take 2 years or less to break even on a high equipment investment. But my Dillon 650 will last a lifetime.

I also think that if you’re mechanically inclined, and take your time, watch videos, and research and read—-first—-then you can buy a 650xl, and load safely and quickly in a weekend, from unbox on Saturday morning to first cartridge by Sunday afternoon. I did, and it went very well. A lot of guys will tell you single stage. And it is cheaper, but what’s your time worth? In 3 hours, from primer tube loading to cleanup of bench and press, I can have 1K+ rounds loaded and in ammo boxes, case gauged and GTG. And that’s with breaks and what not. A single stage-I don’t even know how long. But much much longer. Again, it’s a time vs money budget. but over 3 weekends in the winter, I have enough for all year and then some.



Entry price to get everything you need can run 200 bucks for a single stage press, dies, and components to load cartridges with, all the way to 2k bucks or more just for the Dillon Fabrication equipment to reload 4 calibers.

 

[SamT1]

I’d conciter myself a master of frugality. I got into non shotgun loading after buying a 480 Ruger revolver and learning I was too cheap to shoot it. I walked into a shop and about cried buying a 20 round box of ammo. The grumpy man that ran it was like, your already loading shot guns why not load this? So I bought a Lee aniversary kit for $100 a set of rcbs dies off eBay for $25 1# H110 for $18, 200 primers $7.50, 100 starline brass seems like these bad boys were expensive $65 or so , and 200 hornady xtp bullets $80.
I’m pretty sure I paid off my initial equipment in those first 200 rounds. I still use that press some, use the powder measure and scale a lot. It loaded my first few years worth of rounds before I got some auction steals.

You can save money loading ammo, even the cheap low end stuff, but you’ve got to watch what you buy. There’s a lot of luxury items in reloading that are not cost effective. But if you don’t care about cheap ammo some of them are really handy and fun to look at too.